2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 25, 2020 14:07:40 GMT -5
I know this makes no sense whatsoever but I ordered some of the cheap Springer M14s which perform on a comparable level with the spinger m1 carbine that I have really enjoyed. I have a lot of assorted Garand bits that are laying around unused. (Gas assemblies, upper hand guards etc) so I figure with some man hours I can make some pseudo Garands. They won't of course be semi automatic and they will only shoot .20 gram at about 320fps but they will be cheap. Perhaps the biggest appeal for me is they will use up parts that are otherwise doing nothing. Since most of my rifles end up as loaners, springers are so trouble free and are cheap enough to not worry about. I have also observed that some of the funnest and most enjoyable events and skirmishes involved mostly single shot and semi auto guns. When I loan out my AEGs there always seem to be the hassle of batteries losing charge or simple malfunctions. Too many full autos create stale mates and more "loan wolf" RAMBOs where low caps and semi/ bolties require more team work and more maneuver. They also make the sub machine guns and crew served machine guns realistically critical to the tactics. These sprinters are also weak enough for indoor and backyard events.
I also already know how to easily modify the Springer M14 mags and have a bunch of them already done up.Springer M14 mags are also quite cheap.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 27, 2020 18:39:51 GMT -5
I haven't received these cheap M14s but when I do I'll document the build process which I suspect will be heavily impacted by dyna glass resin paste.
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Post by hardslack on Nov 28, 2020 10:48:49 GMT -5
Sounds like a fun project. I know the m1 carbines have a reputation for durability, what's been your experience with the m14s?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 28, 2020 14:25:29 GMT -5
I haven't received them yet and I am taking a bit of a risk by ordering 4 of them but that's how many gas assemblies and left over hand guards I had laying around. I am basing the purchase on reviews which indicate that they are hard shooters. I am hopeful that they are comparable to the little carbines. Visually from the pictures they are not as nice. They have hokey do-dad attachment points that will have to be cut, barrels that will have to be extended and screw holes that will have to be filled. Unlike the carbines the rear sites on the M14s are fixed but I have dozens of take off, post war carbine sites that I can adapt. As I await their arrival I am working out in my head how the conversion will go but knowing that the reality won't be anything like I planned. In the past when I have coated plastic with a thin layer of resin paste after sanding and finish work I generally wind up with a very convincing pseudo wood. I will provide an update once they arrive.
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adrg
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Post by adrg on Nov 29, 2020 2:43:39 GMT -5
Nice project! I have some G&G M14 internals that are waiting for me to put in a project as well. Not sure what - maybe another G43?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 29, 2020 22:13:45 GMT -5
The GnG GBB M14 was supposed to have been one of the more reliable GBBs. I just sold my custom G43 so future G43 effort is definitely a possibility. I had some discussion with buying some 3D reject parts from Steve up in Canada but nothing ever came of it.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 29, 2020 22:24:35 GMT -5
I had a mild panic as I was pondering my project as I was envisioning that the barrel was far low in the stock to work for my Garand conversion (incidentally a challenge that would work well for a G43). When I got up and examined the M14 Springer pictures I realized the low placed barrel is a optical illusion due to the upper do-dad rail which I will be cutting off along with the others. I suspect my biggest challenge with this project will be fitting a long enough inner barrel as clearly these stubby M14s are going to be too short. I think I have some ling brass, tight bore barrels somewhere but will they adapt?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 30, 2020 17:57:33 GMT -5
Fool that I am I just discovered full length M14 Springers at a similar price point which appear to be a pretty decent upgrade according to the reviews. Obviously the proper barrel length would be a big plus and simplify the conversion effort considerably. I have a bad feeling about these base guns I ordered. It also seems with the pandemic and perhaps China trade issues availability AND pricing of air soft products seem to be higher. Low initial offerings (especially on EBAY) seem to be cancelled out by ridiculous shipping charges? I should get these initial 4 cheap Springer M14s today. I hope they aren't going to be a total bust. The brand I ordered were Double Eagles and it seems what I wanted are the TSD or AGM full length M14s.
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Post by volkssturm on Dec 2, 2020 10:41:13 GMT -5
I've got 4 or 5 of the LPEG M14 mags if you can use them.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2020 14:45:16 GMT -5
Absolutely could use them. They adapt fairly easily to a shortened version (22 functional rounds if I remember). They end up with a small, curved shape that extends a little bit below the mag well but its hardly noticeable and it gives you something to pinch for quicker reloads. How did you end up with them? Had you bought one of the Springer M14s or were you going to adapt them to Garage conversion?
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Post by volkssturm on Dec 2, 2020 23:22:53 GMT -5
I bought a LPEG M-14 some years ago. Never found a use for it but the mags were on sale cheap so I bought some. I was trying to find a way to make a cheap M1 from it.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 3, 2020 20:37:43 GMT -5
Well I received the four Springer M14s and immediately wished I had ordered one to try out. They are obviously an entirely different product than what I had fiddled with years ago at an event ( Probably a TSD or AGM). These double eagles claimed to be 1:1 replicas of a shortened SOCOM M14. In reality they are strangely about 3/4 scale. Hmmmm? On a plus side they do seem to shoot on Parr with the little M1 carbine sprinters. Although I will have to try them outside in the daylight. The Magazine is also 3/4 scale so completely different than what I had on hand and have already altered.
They are very lightweight at about 3 pounds (an easy fix if I decide to do so.). The hokey mounts on top and on the bottom unscrew so that makes any alteration easier. The side RIS mounts would still have to be cut off.
Given the challenges I am not sure what my course of action will be? I could add the M14 metal take off parts for which I have dozens upon dozens and do the stock enhancements to eliminate the cheesy screw holes. doing that and adding some weight would make them pretty impressive even up close and use up some parts that are laying around Perhaps I should make them pseudo G43s?
I need to ponder this further? I don't think I have need for 3/4 scale Garands? They were cheap and they do function well for springers. I will, I think order one of the TSD/AGM full length Springer M14s. An initial bulk.order for anything is kinda dumb although my initial order for the little carbines was a half dozen and I have been thrilled with them.
I am not sure what the next few days will look like but I'll keep you posted.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 4, 2020 13:59:21 GMT -5
So outdoor firing w .20 gram proves they are borderline acceptable. Not quite on Parr with the m2 carbine. I suppose I could send them all back on the excuse that they are NOT 1:1 but that would be petty and buying 4 was just stupidity on my part. I have decided to convert one into a G43 and one into an SKS and see which is the better adaptation and then follow suit with the other two. Either way I will have myself a Covid project and will find some use out of them. The SKS technically could be a WW2 weapon as they were designed by wars end but realistically more of a Korean war/ Vietnam weapon. I will build up the upper surface to create the barrel offset present in both weapons and have bits lying around to create the illusion. The smaller size will be more appropriate with the SKS which was very much a carbine.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 4, 2020 18:59:23 GMT -5
These little Double Eagle M14 sprinters are actually pretty good little shooters considering their low purchase cost. I shot quite a few BBs through each into the green belt where I could follow the flight of the BBs quite a ways down range. As with most inexpensive sprinters step one is throw away the cheap .12 gram BBs that come with them. I initially tried .20 grams which showed quite a bit of back spin in 3 of the four guns. The fixed hop up was clearly set for .20 on one of them which had a little rise in the flight of each shot. The other 3 were absolutely spot on with .25s. The flight was ribbon straight. In the absence of wind I could easily hit a half man sized target at 120 feet so in a mostly semi-auto games these are definitely skirmish-able. Obviously for gaming the .25 is a desirable weight. Less effected by wind and brush. I am feeling better about putting in the effort to convert them into something cooler.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 5, 2020 14:34:10 GMT -5
The little magazines for these Double Eagle M14s are a curious blend of high caps and low caps. The design was quite common with air soft guns in the mid 80s. That was when I first bought some air soft guns from Tokyo Marui. The only offerings I was aware of were springers or gas guns with remote tanks. Most of the available springers had ejecting shells but some had magazines like these double eagles which had a spring fed channel that could load 12 to 20 rounds and a reservoir that held about 100 rounds. When your spring channel was empty you drew down the spring, locked it in place and then shook the magazine allowing the extra rounds into the spring channel. Very hokey and noisy and frankly quite inefficient. Winding high caps must have seen as pure genius when created. These Double Eagle mags load only 13 rounds in the spring channel so shortening them will NOT be practical. I am hoping Ill be able to adapt shotgun mags or some other solution? I am not sure if spare mags for these SOCOM DE M14s are available anywhere but I'll try to source them somewhere?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 6, 2020 23:30:27 GMT -5
So I cut into one of these starting first on the external rails. The top one and short lower one was attached with short screws so easy enough to remove. The side rails are attached with 3 pins that I could have drilled out. Not knowing that I dremeled them off. I then cut off the forward section of the stock along with the barrel and phoney gas assembly. I randomly chose a cut point one inch in front of the fixed sling hardware. It proved to be fortuitous as there was a large metal weight just in front of the cut point I chose.
Once shortened it exposed a stubby section of inner barrel. This inner barrel is plastic. Not much thicker than a straw. It funneled into the barrel assembly that I removed. I have some tight bore barrel sections that I will be able to add and the I will attach a brass outer barrel using taped spacers. To secure it, I will take steps to insure this barrel is perfectly centered using a cardboard bulkhead and then bondo it into place. With the brass barrel protruding I will decide what I am going to build and cut to length. As weird as it sounds I am tempted to do a 3/4 scale M1. Perhaps a T3 pre M1 Garand from Forgotten weapons?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 7, 2020 14:25:46 GMT -5
The initial replacement of the inner barrel with a brass tightbore barrel did NOT have a positive effect on velocity or accuracy. I will try a shorter length but if there is no upside I will go back to the stock inner barrel and simply install the brass outer barrel and hope it doesn't inhibit the rounds once they leave the actual muzzle. I am estimating that my brass outer barrel will extend about 12 inches beyond the inner barrel.
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Kipp
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Post by Kipp on Dec 7, 2020 18:48:06 GMT -5
I enjoy these blog type builds and curiosities. I like to play around with the strength and capabilities of the CYMA M1 Carbines myself, but finding this post to be more and more intriguing.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 7, 2020 19:46:11 GMT -5
I love the Cyma M1 springers which are marketed under other brands as well. I did try a stronger spring in one but only got about 200 rounds before the sere failed. The internal.components in the carbines is much more robust than these M14s. The inner barrels often need cleaning and in a few cases rebutting but way nicer than these DE M14s. In spite of all of that I will come up with something fun that I will get some use out of.
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Post by warbirdguy1 on Dec 8, 2020 18:39:25 GMT -5
What timing! I am in the process of doing the exact same thing. I am trying to get at least 6 of these so I have loaner guns for my WW2 events in Florida.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 8, 2020 20:52:09 GMT -5
You definitely will want to buy the full length Springer M14s for your conversions. A little more money initially but full scale and a longer inner barrel to work with and magazines that can be shortened. I am doing one 3/4scale Garand, 2 G43s and a Russian SKS (at least that's the plan currently.)
I drew out my planned extension on butcher paper, cut my new outer barrel and secured it into the cut away plastic stock. Insuring that it was ribbon straight over the original inner barrel i bondo'd it into place and will let it harden over night. To keep the resin paste from oozing into the mechanical works I cut out and inserted a cardboard bulkhead that I stuffed down into the cut out shell. Hopefully it will remain properly aligned? I laid the gun on its side and propped the extended barrel on just the right height of popsicle sticks but truth be told the alignment was all eyeball with optimistic alignment before things hardened. I have no doubt about how rock solid these will be and overall weight will be augmented nicely.
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Kipp
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Post by Kipp on Dec 9, 2020 22:13:10 GMT -5
I was tipped off that the L96 springs work well in the Carbines and I am thinking about cutting them down some as to lower velocity to around 310-330fps with a .25g as I feel that is suitable for the carbine. Are you converting or modifying the internals of the M14s in a similar fashion or are in the internals so cheap that it would be impossible?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 10, 2020 14:12:03 GMT -5
I have no confidence these internal will handle anything more robust than what is in there to start which is why I suspect the AGM TSD offerings would make better mules for these kinds of projects. My newly installed extended outer barrel appears straight and has had no negative effect on performance and if anything has improved it somewhat. I will now start in on the scouting. This first conversion will be very novel 3/4 scale Garand. It will end up size wise between a carbine and a Garand which will just make the holder look like a bigger guy that they are. Since a lot of my players (especially in my parent/son WW2 game are kids (12 to 16) the smaller size actually might be a good thing. In many of the reviews comments often suggest these are hard to cock which makes me wonder who's buying these? They are easily cocked from the shoulder. On Parr with the Springer Carbines.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 13, 2020 15:25:08 GMT -5
Because this is 3/4 scale an actual Garage gas assembly looks too big. Additionally they are heavy and probably too nice an item to squander on this project. The result is I am having to fabricate the hand guards and gas assembly. I am going to do the hand guards in soft wood that I will rasp and sand to shape. My dremel is my friend here. For the gas assembly, two brass tubes and some creative sculpting with resin paste. The trickiest shapes are the front sight and locking lug and I bought a bunch of 3D printed parts from Dracula on this site which should work great.
The flimsy plastic inner barrel appears NOT to be the issue I feared as the brass outer barrel secured into place provides more than enough rigidity and strength for this conversion. Go to extremes to insure everything is ribbon straight before your resin paste sets. I discovered a nice technique, instead of stacked popcycle stick serving as a brace use your harder tubes. By turning the weapon on its side on a level surface you can slide their angled shape up or down up toward the muzzle and can stop at precisely the point that will allow the paste to harden with the barrel dead straight. Then double check the horizontal and brace it as well. I find the barrel seems to want to flop slightly off but requires light pressure to funnel it straight. With each stage of bracing I test fire to insure proper function. So far so good. Incidentally a weapon I have also considered along with a Garand, SKS and G43 is an Ivar- Johnson?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 13, 2020 16:36:05 GMT -5
An additional heads up. These cheesy SOCOM m14 have screw holes on one side of the stocks similar to the LPEG carbines. Visually these have to be filled but even without these holes I would be doing a thin veneer of resin paste which ties in with any reshaping of the stock I might do. In order to insure that the resin paste sticks well be sure to rough sand the plastic stock. Once dry, sanded and shaped the veneer of resin paste provides a great surface for a very convincing faux wood.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 13, 2020 22:59:43 GMT -5
Given that these replicas are 3/4 scale an obvious replica to make out of them (Not WW2) but a cool gun nonetheless would be the 5.56mm Mini 14. I am not going to do it as frankly its too easy and I would have no use for it. My roughed out finished layout is done. Once it all hardens over this week will be filled with sanding, sculpting and then final detail work and painting. The rough shape has me pretty pumped. Its going to be a Garand that is about half way in size between a carbine and an M1 Garand. I never liked the Tanker Garand as I thought it just looked wrong and inelegant. (and it was never used in WW2.). I should have final pictures by next weekend?
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Kipp
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Post by Kipp on Dec 14, 2020 15:21:46 GMT -5
Looking forward to pictures and enjoy reading your synopsis!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 16, 2020 23:41:24 GMT -5
Pictures (as of a few days) were sent. Pretty hideous looking at that point but it chronicles the process and helps you visualize my verbal discussions. Based on my discoveries so far I am going to defy my usual approach which is to not disassemble anything. For these the internal functional aspects are extremely simplistic and by taking the guns apart you can more easily see where the logical cuts may be and what can be removed rather than cut off. In addition if like me you plan to add weights its easier to add them into the logical hollow areas that won't interphere with operation and reassemble. For installing the weights I use (what else) resin paste and whatever handy metal I have lying around.
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Post by warbirdguy1 on Dec 19, 2020 12:39:04 GMT -5
Depending on how well these turn out and the price point would you consider selling 4-6 to me?
I am trying to collect some loaner guns for my events and these would be perfect for me.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 19, 2020 15:00:26 GMT -5
Frankly that's my plan for any I make. Lets see how they come out. I do hope that each one I make will be a little easier than the last.
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