2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 19, 2020 15:12:04 GMT -5
Warbirdguy you've probably already done so but I highly recommend the little Springer carbines by CYMA. I see that they are quite a bit more expensive than they used to be. ( all airsoft items seem to be) but they are still a great value. Eliminate the bayonet lug, shorten the mags and if you're really anal replace the rear sight and you have an excellent loaner weapon. I like having a little more variety hence I'm attempting these Garands and G43s. Springer loaner guns are absolutely the way to go! So simple, no worries and trouble free. Great for group pictures.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 19, 2020 18:47:26 GMT -5
I managed to do some additional shaping and sanding and by golly they are beginning to look like I had hoped they might. The square block of wood forming the upper hand guard was quite easy to shape. I cut down one of the hundreds and hundreds of M14 heat shields I took off my previous Garand conversions and began the process of making the base stock more robust and more "Garand " like. An actual Garage gas assembly is going to look too big on these but some of the take off parts from the base M14 Springer together with other odds and ends and a little cosmetic sculpting some create the look I'm hoping for.
I am enjoying this but its way more work than its worth. For those expressing an interest I have sent progress pictures.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 19, 2020 21:52:06 GMT -5
I made some more progress and it still.looks hideous but at this stage you can begin to see what I'm trying to do. I sent progress pictures to some of you who requested them. I have decided to augment the lower stock so it looks more Garand like and less M14ish. I have also decided to add 2 inches of length to the butt stock to give the replica a little more length. The Garand actually had a very stubby butt stock as did this M14. So much so that its distracting. I cut into the plain plastic butt plate to add weights and am installing a metal take off M14 butt plate. One of hundreds I have lying around that were take offs from my Garand conversions. As mentioned one of my goals was to use up some of these take off bits.
I also started in on an SKS and a G43.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 20, 2020 15:30:24 GMT -5
I forgot how many layers of resin paste it takes to create these things! Some more shaping on the Garand and some initial shaping on the SKS.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 20, 2020 20:24:36 GMT -5
My Garand is mocked up with all the key components in place. It just needs final sanding and then paint and detailing. I went to test fire and had a mild panic. The BBs were hooking right pronouncedly I had several barrel adaptations including an added 3 inches section of larger diameter barrel designed to align the barrel as it routed through the locking lug. Because it was a very short section and bigger diameter it couldn't be the issue but it had to be as it was ribbon straight prior to adding it! Upon very close inspection there was a tiny burr not unlike what you occassionally find in the little carbines. Unfortunately it was on the inner joint (3 inches in) and I had JB welded it into place. An appropriate drill bit and several cleaning patches and all is good.
With the barrel lengthened, swabbed, smoothed and polished performance is significantly up. Compared to the stock M14 sprinters FPS with .25 gram is up 25 FPS and is now just at 295. Not super by any means but adequate. Tomorrow if all goes well it will be done. Made great progress on the SKS with many lessons learned in this first conversion.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 3, 2021 14:07:17 GMT -5
I finished the Garand with an additional 1 1/2 inches added to the butt stock and final cosmetics added to the muzzle area including a stacking swivel and bayonet lug. It looks great until side by side with an actual Garand . (Its 5 inches shorter). The SKS came out great with a built in (permanently fixed in the folded position) blade bayonet. It is just slightly smaller than one to one. I am now tackling the G43s which are progressing nicely. They are both at the initial "sand " phase which means at this point they still look awful. Of the four builds the G43s will be the easiest although I should hold off saying that till I'm done with them. Each project has required about $12.00 in additional parts. (Resin paste, copper tubing, barrel extensions, sand paper and paints. Total costs (minus labor) about 55.00.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 3, 2021 23:19:37 GMT -5
I see that these cheap M14 sprinters are on sale at Big 5 sports for $39.95 which is in sync w/ EBay and obviously no shipping.although because I ordered 4 from the EBay seller I paid no shipping.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 7, 2021 20:58:36 GMT -5
So my 2 G43 adaptations of these little Springer 14s have finally received what I think will be their last layer of resin paste and sanding. The shapes came out acceptably we!l. I am going to wrap the upper hand guards in some walnut veneer I happen to have which I used on the mocked up hand guards on the Garand I will then add the front and rear sights and do the final cosmetic work. Because I didn't think about it before hand and added significant weights into the butt stock areas I wasnt able to shape sling inserts into the stocks. I will have to come up with some way to give the impression of a Mauser type stock sling on these?
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 8, 2021 20:29:23 GMT -5
I went to BIG 5 and bought their one In stock DE 503 (Cheap Springer M14 SOCOM. I am going to try to reinforce the seer mechanism and trigger set up and install a stronger Spring and install a long tight bore barrel. I doubt my efforts will produce a durable device but if it does,making more of these G43s for my evens actually might make sense. Its too late to attempt it on the guns I initially bought as I sealed the screws when I altered the stocks.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 10, 2021 22:51:17 GMT -5
My 2 G43s are sanded and shaped and just need front sights added and final detail work. They will look passable for "At a glance". Visually they are on Parr with the CYMA AEG conversion I did but obviously do not fire semi auto. They both shoot nice and straight with .25s which seems to be the right setting for the fixed hop up in these guns. They do not shoot any where near as hard as the S&T kar 98s but you can cock and fire them much quicker so there is that. I have a local Air softer who wants to buy one of them. I wasn't planning to sell any of them but he's paying me nearly what my total costs are for my four keepers. My final production is going to be another Garand. I am going to try and reinforce the internals and use a 120 spring. I am also going to build it a little longer than the first one so it'll be closer to 1:1 scale. Truthfully unless you stick my original build next to an actual M1 it looks fine.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 11, 2021 15:37:17 GMT -5
The seer catch and trigger hardware are all plastic but a generous application where possible of reinforcement steel using jb weld MIGHT allow it to hold up to the stronger spring. The real weakness I think will be the thin plastic bulkheads that these things press against. I am applying this dyna glass resin paste to strengthen the inside considerably. The result if nothing else is these cheesy little guns feel pretty substantial. If things inside break these become display props as there will be no practical way to take them apart to fix.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 13, 2021 1:55:01 GMT -5
So there's no turning back on this second Garand. The 120 spring is installed the contact internal bits are reinforced. The gun is reassembled. I extended the barrel and test fired to insure no barrel suck or operational issues and continued the stock alterations including the sealing and covering of the hokey assembly screws. For improvements over the original Garand conversion the lower stock at the cut is an inch and a half longer. The upper stock is an inch longer than my first and my gas assembly will be 1/2 inch longer than my 3/4 scale first effort. I will lengthen the butt stock 2 inches like I added onto the first one. The result will be a 42" inch long replica. 3" longer than my first effort but still a couple inches shorter than a real Garand. Unless side by side probably not noticeable. My fear is that the receiver group will look too small.
With the 120 spring it shoots much harder and the cocking effort is still quite manageable. Hopefully the internals will hold up. A similar effort on one of my little Springer carbines (with no reinforcements) only lasted 200 rounds.
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Kipp
Private
Posts: 86
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Post by Kipp on Jan 14, 2021 12:07:30 GMT -5
It's great reading all these different upgrades, tricks, tries, and trials that you're doing. I have tried my hand doing very similar things with the springer carbines as well. I found that a M130 Action Army spring for the L96 and a plastic spring guide for the L96 modified was a good result. I am shooting 320fps with .2s and 300fps with .25s. I put a little over 200 rounds through them, and used the carbine in a couple local field games getting significant reliability results and a four-six kills per game.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 14, 2021 14:52:53 GMT -5
Wow a 130spring! Unless I'm mistaken the higher the spring number the higher the tension? The Japanese started this hobby back in the early 80s and Japanese law limited air guns to 1 jouel of kinetic energy. The spring that produced that consistently was a 100 as I understand that. 120 would produce 20% more energy and a 150 half again more.
Interestingly when you bought Japanese AEGs they came with .25s. Most players switched to .20s which increased the FPS but generated the same energy. 20s kind of became the standard. With some research and testing I discovered (contrary to logic) that inspire of reduced FPS.25s travel much farther. Its about energies. Their added weight means that 10 feet beyond the muzzle and beyond their FPS is greater than the .20s. They as we all know are less impacted by wind and brush.
I didn't think these cheesy sprinters which come with funky .12s would handle .25sbut they do! In fact the fixed hop seems set up for .25s.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 14, 2021 15:00:38 GMT -5
My G43s are done and my buyer is coming to pick his up tomorrow. I'm giving him the choice of which one he wants. The better looking of the 2 doesn't quite shoot as nicely as the other so either choice is fine with me. I am progressing nicely on the second Garand but am going with very close to the dimensions of the first as a more accurate sized stock and gas assembly looked to out of proportion. It will be almost 2 inches longer than the first but not 4 inches longer. This second one with its stronger spring thus far is a better performer but if the internals break it will be a prop and looks will be even more critical?
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Kipp
Private
Posts: 86
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Post by Kipp on Jan 14, 2021 21:46:57 GMT -5
You are correct, the higher the number the higher the tension. I have cut the spring down to the same length as the carbine spring and the coil spacing on this spring was very similar to that of the carbine's OEM. I am very pleased with 300fps and with the stabilizers in the barrels with electrical tape the spring is a formidable skirmish piece in smart hands. As you probably know, a springer like these against a lot of AEGs and GBBs is difficult and "tactical awareness", to use a term, is definitely going to help out.
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Kipp
Private
Posts: 86
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Post by Kipp on Jan 14, 2021 21:47:35 GMT -5
Do you you have pictures of the finished G43 product? I am on your email list about the project and would really enjoy seeing it!
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 15, 2021 11:57:07 GMT -5
I will take some and get them off to all on my email list. If there are others here that would like to see pictures just pm me with your email.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 17, 2021 18:54:16 GMT -5
To create a convincing pseudo wood stock on my conversions I apply a thin coat of the resin paste and sand it smooth. It takes several increasing thinner applications following each sanding to discover and then cover open spots or air bubbles. A few here and there actually enhance the "field used" look I like. Once I am happy I drag a rasp the length of the stock creating a "grain". Very lightly, barely noticeable to the eye. The first coat of acrylic paint is a light base. I use a sand color or yellow ochre on all wood bits. In a perfect world I mask off the metal bits and over spray the light acrylic with a " wood finish" paint which is available at craft shops in a variety of shades. (Walnut, cherry wood, maple, oak etc.). This opaque finish is quite convincing but is quite glossy. Once dry I remove my masking tape and over spray with a clear protective undercoat. On these cheap sprinters I didn't want to invest in the wood paints as they are kind of spendy and I didn't have any on hand. Alternatives that work surprisingly well is cover the light acrylic paint in shoe polish in light, medium or dark brown. Once dry apply black shoe polish and rub it into the grain created by your rasp or smudge appropriately in the case of my G43s to create a laminated wood look. Again once dry protect and dull with a dull coat over spray.
My final step is to create a plug over the open mag well for the Garands and plug fake magazines for the SKS and G43s.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 18, 2021 21:35:26 GMT -5
My second Garand in roughed out form was disproportionate and just looked "wrong" in roughed out form. The lower stock looked too fat and the upper hand guard looked too stubby as did the gas assembly. The Garand in my opinion has always been a beautiful weapon and this one just wasn't. My initial build though smaller looked far better to my eyes. I spent the day doing major tweaks to correct the lines and proportions. Lots of deemed work and sanding (Dust everywhere) but I am quite happy with the days work. In its current rough state it is vastly improved. I think it may end up looking even better than my initial effort. Though in rough form I shot 3 magazines through it (about 40 rounds). With its bolder spring and longer inner barrel it performs way better than the base, out of the box gun and in a mostly semi auto event would be quite competitive in the right hands.but I would say 20% better than the little carbines which I rate as more effective within 120 feet than the VSR conversions or stock, factory bolties. Higher rate of fire and easier to keep the muzzle on target.
I am working all this week but should have this final cheap Springer conversion finished by weeks end. For the G43s and the SKS the stubby magazines will be an outer facade, permanently affixed. In action the undersized M14 magazines will be slid into place. I can't source spare magazines for these guns anywhere and modifying them will reduce them to around 7 rounds and will be a lot of work. Hopefully in the mid day of play the protruding magazine won't be too distracting. Between action phases with magazines removed they should be fine for pictures?
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 18, 2021 22:00:09 GMT -5
If any one finds a source for these DE 503 springer. Magazines I would love to know about it. They are a little confusing as they have a reservoir of about 180 rounds but spring feed about 12 rounds. If you hold down the spring and shake them you can reload. (very hokey)
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 21, 2021 21:06:29 GMT -5
My second Garand got some additional attention today (perhaps 2 hours). It is significantly different in shape than it was initially and is very close in size and shape to my first one. It needs some additional application of resin paste and the butt stock extension I did on the first one (. I added weights, resin pasted them in and added a metal rear M14 butt plate out of the hundreds I removed for my 2ndBat M14 conversions). These provide a nice uniform look, a little additional weight and mirror an early war butt plate. They also accommodate my goal of re purposing bits and pieces I had laying around.
Because the weather was nice and my neighbors weren't home I took about a hundred long range shots into the green belt from my back deck and have to say this guys a shooter! Ribbon straight with .25s and so far so good on reliable feeds. Cocking effort is not noticeably harder than the normal spring. One against one vs the S&T Kar 98 it (the Kar98) shoots a little harder and has greater range but this Garand is easier to cock and doesn't require me to drop it down off my shoulder to reload. (I can cock the S&T from the shoulder but with great effort). Unless I was playing in wide open terrain I'd rather skirmish with this homemade Garand . Of course neither is as capable as the ICS or S&T Garand AEGs or my AEG conversions. (or any AEG other than the cheesy plastic gearbox offerings). If this survives with its stronger spring this should serve me well as a cheap and simple loaner for events and give me something other than just the carbines. Which still count as the best value in WW2 airsoft.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 24, 2021 23:11:31 GMT -5
Every time I think I just need "one more" layer of resin paste I discover I need more. This second M1 Garland with each "final sanding" reveals more blemishes and shapes I want to rework. Because this one shoots so well I have decided to do a little more precise finish work on it. The overall length will wind up at 40" so just a little longer than the first one. I have some walnut veneer and am going to coat the upper and lower hand guards for both Garlands. I did that on the recruit edition 2nd bat conversions which had resin molded hand guards and it enhanced their looks considerably. I also applied this veneer on the hand guards on the G43s. I can't even remember when I bought this self adhesive walnut veneer, what I planned to do with or what it cost but once applied, stained and clearcoated it looks fabulous. I bet I've had it for 20 years.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 25, 2021 13:57:58 GMT -5
While the veneer has adhesive backing I find on the curved shapes of the hand guards smattering on addition 3m adhesive glue is necessary for a permanent seal that won't detach at the edges over time. Once in place I secure the veneer over night with lots of clamps. I then use an actual wood stain and match as best I can the lower stock and seal it all in a dull coat clear coat.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 28, 2021 20:55:34 GMT -5
I'll be putting the finishing touches on my 2nd G43 and my 2nd Garand. The SKS and original G43 and Garand are all done. If anyone wants pictures just message me and supply your email.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Feb 1, 2021 16:07:13 GMT -5
My revised Avatar shows one of my cheap Springer M1s. In the absence of a real Garand it looks pretty good. Since I am only 5'7" when holding it I look bigger than I am! The two Garlands I did ended up almost identical in length at 39 and 40" in length. A real Garand is 44" so not way out of scale. With the added weights they each weigh about 6 pounds so about 3 1/2 pounds lighter than RS. They are fun little plinkers and will make great loaner guns. Springers are just no hassle, hand em out, test fire 3 times and forget, with no come backs mid game with "I don't know it just stopped shooting." only to have it work fine when I try it.
One of these days I'm going to hold a springers only game. I did several when my son was 12 to 14 with all the neighbor kids and they were some of the most fun we ever held! Perhaps give each team a BAR and an MP44?
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Feb 4, 2021 23:38:05 GMT -5
So the internal guts of an M16 high cap magazine with a tiny bit of shaving would fit inside these midget M14 magazines. I have a bunch of them left over from when I switched my BAR magazines to mid caps. (They used M16 internals) If I cut off the upper reservoir area I can make them stubby enough to work for the G43s. I would then have to marry them up to the top section of an m14 mini mags. With the reservoir area removed instead of 190 rounds they will probably be 50? The fear of course is there is no room for error as if the marriage doesn't work There is NO source to replace these M14 mini mags. The upside of course is a shorter magazine but higher ready round capability. 40 or 50 rounds vs 13 with no spare mags? I am 90% confident I could pull off the conversion but sure wish I had some room for error. If I do it and it works I'll probably do them all. They'll still protrude below the Garlands but about half as much and slightly below the SKS. 40 to 50 rounds is longer than I usually survive with a Springer so no doubt more than adequate for skirmish ing.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Feb 6, 2021 14:10:12 GMT -5
And so it begins I have swallowed hard and started in on attempting one. After examaning every angle and considering any potential hiccups Began by cutting down the M16 high cap guts by shaving it as evenly as I could right at the top of the high cap mechanism. When making these cuts I tape off the cut line to insure a 90 degree cut and one that is level side to side. With the cut made the 4 1/2 inch mag is reduced by 1 3/4 inches. Out of curiosity I checked on the capacity for the now shortened mag and it will be 60 (assuming it works!)
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Feb 7, 2021 13:42:21 GMT -5
I made an obvious procedural discovery yesterday. (Obvious after the fact). The M14 mini mags are two halves screwed together. With the two sides seperated and the spring and spring guide removed there is an internal horizontal bulkhead that makes an excellent cut line leaving you with 1/4 inch of upper mag surface which you will then have to align with the cut down lower M16 high cap. As with all modified mags aligning the two feed holes perfectly is essential to a consistent feed and trouble free magazine. The marriage has to be free of burrs or gaps. Fool the I am I glued the two side by side upper lip parts from the mini m14 lips and then once dry (this morning attempted to align them with the lower magazine. It would have been easier and more precise to have aligned one half so I could physically see the alignment and Then glued the other half of the upper lip. Word to the wise, lesson learned. I hope I have them aligned properly but if not, I am hosed. There is nothing more annoying than a poorly feeding magazine.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Feb 8, 2021 21:04:49 GMT -5
In spite of my best efforts to do so the outer shell of the Donor mini 14 magazines couldn't be "gutted" enough to house the high cap mechanism so a new outer shell had to be created. I used thin strips of ABS cut to size and glued into place. The end result was slightly thicker than the original magazine. The converted mag functioned perfectly but then wouldn't fit in the magazine housing. In examining the mag well it quickly became obvious that slightly widening the mag housing would have no impact on functionality. With a sanding wheel on my dremel I widened the mag well slightly and with some fitting it slides fine into the guns and functions perfectly. The converted mag feeds 65 rounds with one re spin. With this success as I will convert all five including the one I sold.
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