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Post by 2ndbat2 on Mar 9, 2022 20:02:43 GMT -5
The rough shape for all 3 Garands are finished and they are currently at their ugliest. I no longer do my sanding inside (too big of a mess and event with an N95 probably not healthy) so the initial sanding will have to wait for decent weather. The weight and balance on all three is a big improvement over my prototype which weighed almost 9 pounds (unless you're shooting for pure authenticity) and following extensive shaping and sanding will only get better. I have been targeting 5 1/2 pounds and I think that will be where I end up. Rounghed out I test fired all three and they continue to preform well. All will end at or be very close to 44 inches in length. The hop up on these UKARMs/ AGM M14 springers is actually pretty good and noticeably more precise than my springer carbines.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Mar 12, 2022 14:23:16 GMT -5
Clear weather today so I will spend the day on my back portch doing the main sanding and shaping on these 3 latest Garands. Of all the steps this is my least favorite part. Its messy, time consuming, hard work and when you're all done the guns still look crappy. The good news is that following this hurdle everything after this feels like you're making progress and quickly looks better and better. There will be thinner and thinner layers of resin applied which are easier and easier to sand. These 3 newest productions are going to be my best yet. (Of the springers). I have found a friend who can splice cut a couple of my Garand walnut stocks. Don't freak out these were quite inexpensive as they had 2 inches removed from the tip of the neck so are unusable in an actual restoration. I bought a bunch of them for $12.00 each. In the future I'm planning to adapt them to a full length UKARMs M14 springer but that's a project for a future day.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Mar 12, 2022 20:25:42 GMT -5
I got the bulk sanding done on all 3. This (as anticipated) exposed the need for a significant additional coat of resin paste. I find its best to apply coats on one side at a time, allow it to dry then turn it over and do the other side. The beauty of doing 3 rifles at a time makes this effort far more efficient. I got one side of all 3 done and allowed then to harden/ dry (3 hours) flipped them over and applied the other side. Weather permitting I will do a thorough sand of all 3 tomorrow. Tomorrows sanding wont be nearly as elaborate or difficult as todays and should wind up looking pretty decent. Once done I expect I'll need to do light fills followed by light finish sanding. The handguards dont need to be perfect as I am going to coat them all with a walnut veneer. (simple curved shapes and adhesives that will function as a light filler) My neighbor brought me my two spliced lower stocks and in looking at them I'm anxious to tackle adapting them although given the effort I'll probably save that effort for M14 AEGs.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Mar 15, 2022 15:24:53 GMT -5
Light resin patch work on all three has been applied and leaves just one final sanding. Once done I'll create the muzzle/ gas assemblies and do the walnut veneer on the handguards and paint / finish the lower stocks and "patina" paint work on all the wood bits. The weight varies a little bit on each but they range from 5 to 6 pounds which feel much better than my last one which is over 8 1/2 pounds. By the end of this weekend I'll have 5 springer M1 Garands. Calculating costs of materials they are averaging about 65.00 each. The long term hope is CYMA/ UKARMs like GnG, A&K and ICS will see an M1 Garand as a viable product to produce. If these 1:1 M14s can be priced under $60.00 I can't see why an M1 Garand couldn't be? China, are you listening? I built and sold several hundred converted M14s to M1 before quality AEG M1 Garands entered the market. A similar number of conversions from VSR bolties to assorted WW2 bolt actions produced by dozens and dozens of builders finally found their way to marketplace. I am certainly not saying my 2nd Bat Garands are the reason it finally happened but I like to think it proved the business case. M1 Garand AEGs are pretty much sold out everywhere and their ever increasing prices show the demand is there. The little carbine springers have been one of the hottest selling springers on the market. Come on DE, UKARMs, CYMA. M1 Garand Springers!!!! Full sized STG44. Make it happen.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Mar 17, 2022 20:28:30 GMT -5
There was a brief break in the rain so I did the final sanding on all three and the precise dremel detailing. I still need to do the gas assemblies which will require some sculpting and detail work but these are things I enjoy. I will do the staining and paint work on Saturday and these latest 3 should be field ready. 2 ended up full sized at 44 inches long and one is 40" long but looks fine even in close proximity to the others. Getting the springers to align and fit snugly in the actual Garands stocks I think will be harder to fabricate than the AEGs were?
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Mar 18, 2022 19:31:33 GMT -5
Finished all three by mid day today and they came out quite well. All 3 have a few tiny details remaining but all are 99% done and absolutely field ready. The base acrylic paint I used this time was a sreaked sandy tan with darket thin brush strokes. Once dry I oversprayed with the walnut/ clear coat. Once that dried, I removed all the masking tape. Painted the "metal" bits, applied my patina "aging effects" and did several thin coats of dull coat. The resin paste with this finishing process is very very convincing faux wood. Anyone wanting pictures of the finished guns can just PM me with your e-mail and send off pictures. I will attach slings (ordered today) once they arrive and will spend tomorrow in the backyard and greenbelt test firing them.
They will get their first game play experience in 2 weeks. I expect they will hold up great and perform well. The front sights were 3 D printed for me by Drac but proved a bit too fragile. I coated the plastic sights in a thin layer of applied JB Weld and it remain to be seen how well that will work?
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Mar 29, 2022 22:18:41 GMT -5
My armory of springers will get tested in field event at my upcoming event and we'll see first hand how well they perform and how well they hold. My main concerns are sling hardware and the front sights. In tallying up the build costs, one quart of dynaglass was enough to do 3 complete conversions. The walnut spray can coated six guns and I went through about 10 sheets of sand paper and five dremel cutting wheels. Everything else was on hand although in fairness the gas assemblies and front sights were probably $18.00 each. Bottom line is once I found the base guns at $54.00 my total build cost were well under $100.00 even with 2 spare magazines. The plan like with the little carbines is to issue each gun with 2 or 3 spare magazines.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Apr 1, 2022 2:21:31 GMT -5
A little heads up on these DE somewhat undersized M14s and the full sizedCYMA/UKARMs 14s I have been using for my conversions. I ordered a bunch of replica M1 Garand leather slings for them which finally arrived. They were quite affordable and were much nicer than I was expecting. Unforunately the sling hardware is slightly too small to slip them through. I can carefully trim 1/8th of an inch off the length of each strap and they should work fine. One more tedious task however.
Leather slings add a lot to the look I think and help hide the infidelity of the slightly protruding magazine. Hopefully the sling hardware will withstand the rigors of field use.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Apr 2, 2022 15:50:36 GMT -5
To make this work the brass hardware also had the be trimmed with a dremel. For field flexibility the actual and replica slings have a lot of extra length. I am contemplating cutting off the excess and fixing the length so they simply allow enough slack to sling over the shoulder. I will use the removed leather section to create a 3rd pseudo sling. In this way I can create 6 sorta slings from four. 2 of them won't be adjustable at all but will look passable at a glance.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Apr 3, 2022 23:31:03 GMT -5
In adapting these to my full sized and 3/4 scale conversions I figured out a way to get 2 functional slings out of each sling without trimming any of the hardware. There isnt a lot of adjustment in each sling (although for our purposes there doesn't need to be.). They absolutely look the part (if you don't look too closely.). These leather slings with the brass hardware really add a lot to these replicas and getting 2 for one is keeping the cost where I needed it to be. Pleasant surprise, 8 slings from four!
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Apr 18, 2022 19:01:34 GMT -5
Some of my converted UKARMs M14s that were converted to M1s came back from being loaned out at an event last weekend a little wounded. One came back with the front sites blade wings broken off. An issue I anticipated and an easy fix. The other has the trigger occassionally sticking to the rear. Obviously the return spring in side is misalighned. Sadly with the conversion without major damage to access the area its not really fixable. (one of the downsides of my conversions.). It still works one simply has to be mindfull that it is pushed forward before cocking. I find if I squeaze from the bottom of the trigger and release tension quickly its fine most shots. Ultimately. I could remove and use the adapted components onto an all new base M14 fairly easily so if need be that's what I'll do. The conversions all worked well and were very popular. The sling hardware held up to field use (another worry I had). And users reported multiple kills with them some at very long range. The AEGs were almost all restricted to semi auto and SMG had to operate without hop up so range was limited for the SMGs as it should be.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Apr 20, 2022 14:34:43 GMT -5
With the field test of these initial 7 builds a huge success using the UKARMs and the smaller DEs. I am going to order and convert 3 more of the full sized UKARMs M14s. I sold all but one of my four earliest tiny DEM14 conversions One of the two Garands, One SKS and one G43. I kept one of the smaller Garands. Since two of these conversions were listed on EBAY and simply sold as props that poof out simiulated smoke (talc powder) I selected the two thank frankly didnt shoot BBs very well) I was able to hang onto those magazines so I have spares for the "mini Garand" that I kept. The sale of these 3 conversions have essentialky funded the builds for the ones Im keeping. Sweat equity of course but it still helps justify being able to lend them out without great expense or worry. Still hoping a major manufacturer will see a viable market for a comparable M1 Garand Springer to the excellent M14 UKARMs currently makes. A skirmishable $60.00 or so M1 Garand would be awesome! My no where as nice, conversions are easily bringing $150.00! Close to that just as props. China take note a decent shooting springer with available snd affordable spare clips would be a hit seller. I think there is a larger market than there is for the M14. Decent hop up like your UKARMs M14 and comparable power is fine. No need for dodads like scopes , flashlights or red dots In fact PLEASE dont include them or any mounts. A 20 round clip or somewhere there abouts would be ideal and if they fit in the WW2 ammo belt pouches that would be icing on the cake!
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Apr 22, 2022 13:10:19 GMT -5
While I enjoy making these for my own use I have no interest in building them specifically for sale to others. Too much time required for each build. I really enjoy seeing them used.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on May 5, 2022 18:23:17 GMT -5
I have at long last produced 8 of these M1 Garand Springers. 6 of them based on the UKARMs springer M14s and 2 using the DE Socom M14 Springers. I'm still hoping to source spare magazines for the DE model 305F. If anyone knows how I might find them that would be awesome. By selling some of my conversions as pew pew guns that shoot powder out of the muzzle instead of BBs. (I took my crappy shooting ones) i managed to hang on to two additional spare magazines. Unfortunately that just leaves those gunners with 28 ready rounds. (Not nearly enough for skirmishing). For the little DEs I'd like to issue at least 4 magazines. I issue 3 shortened magazines with the carbines which typically load 23 rounds each!
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Post by hardslack on May 6, 2022 12:48:18 GMT -5
Apoligies for not posting those pictures you sent yet, my hosting idea didnt work so smoothly at first. You might try contacting DE? www.deairsoft.com/portal/list/index/id/4.htmlthey have an email at the bottom. Also, might be worth teaming up with someone who could work on a 3d printed magazine. I have the 3d design part down, I haven't spent much time with magazines, but we could work on one! I have an FAL I want to print midcap inserts for, just havent got around to doing it yet.... There is an airsoft SKS out there (renegadecow, who has posted on the forum occaisonally) That uses a shotgun shell, Maybe an adapter could be made that clips into the mag well, and then Shotgun shells could be used, stock?
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Post by 2ndbat2 on May 6, 2022 20:23:38 GMT -5
3 D printer could conceivably accomplish countless things I'd like to do. Crank out large numbers of the shotened carbine magazines. Sortened mags for my Garands (both the springers and AEGs and these DE mags. I guess while I was at it some components that would allow me to adapt M14s to G43s! In the relatively small numbers I couldnt really justify the set up costs a commercial entity would require. I wish I knew someone in our hobby who had the skills and equipment.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jun 1, 2022 15:27:45 GMT -5
I just spent way way too much time on my latest UKARMs M14 conversion but couldnt be happier with the way it came out. The final batch of 3 springer M14 were the full length barrel versions from Airsoft GI. The added barrel length facilitates the project better than the SOCOM length or the somewhere in between length that Airsoft GI shipped last go around. This latest batch were $53.95 each and I exceeded the $150.00 so shipping was free. These once again came with the hokey do dads like lazer pointer, flashlight and cheezy 2 power scope. The rail systems are of course entirely not needed but arent attached when received. For my final and latest conversion I used an actual Walnut stock which was super cheap ($10.00-$12.00?) as it had the top inch and a half removed to (I guess ) de-mill it. I removed the butt stock from the upper stock area with an overlapping angled cut so I could remarry it later and have the joint disappear. The detached upper stock I had (a neighbor) band saw a couple of these stocks right down the center the long way creating two side to side split halves. This would allow me to more easily hollow it out so I could in effect create a veneer that would go over the plastic stock housing of the base gun. Since a Garand is slightly thicker than an M14 I was confident this would work. it does, but it's a lot of dremel work and sanding. To minimize that somewhat, I disassemble the base M14 to figure out how much of the M14 plastic stock I could remove (quite alot really) leaving enough of a skeleton to keep the internals functional and alighned. Once done, things snugged up nicely. I used an actual upper handguard and veneered over a somewhat augmented lower handguard with some of the walnut veneer I have on hand. Once all put together and with the solid butt stock reattached (wood glued) I ended up with an all real , wood stocked M1 Garand springer conversion that functions well and is the best looking one yet. It weighs in at slightly over 5 pounds which feels ideal. I have 9 normal M1 converted springers and this one, special conversion which was 3 long weeks in the making. I attached a leather sling on it and unlike the others used a few additional actual parts like a real butt plate and real stock ferrules. Way way more work and effort than the end result can justify (It is just a springer after all) but I enjoyed the challenge and love the final result. I am going to take one of these cheap carbines and attempt a similar project. This one will not be in the loaner pool. I think it is every bit as durable as the others but I have too much sweat equity in it to loan or rent it out. The pseudo wood I do on the regular conversions look and feel quite good but actual walnut is just that much nicer in both looks and feel. To create a better match between the handguards and actual stock I sanded it down to bare wood like the veneer and stained all three parts to create uniformity. In reality many issued wartime Garand did not perfectly match but when possible the manufacturers tried to come close. The Garand with great looking furniture is a really handsome rifle (in my opinion). It's so iconic and great to look at.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jun 1, 2022 19:47:41 GMT -5
In answer to a few early questions. Yes I had to alter the mag well cut. I had to extend it slightly forward toward the muzzle. I filled the wider Garand mag well width with two narrow tabs of ABS plastic. I also used dyno glass resin paste to extend the shortened stock to the correct length. The blending is noticeable if you look close. As always if any one wants pictures, PM me and include the best place to send the photos (your email). I never did master how to post pictures here. Along with this last order I purchased 10 more of the M14 37 round magazines which I will shorten.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jun 2, 2022 16:13:41 GMT -5
For my 10 springer M1 Garand conversions including slings and 3 spare shortened mags for each my total cost worked out to slightly under 80.00 per rifle. It will take several events to refund that investment at $25.00 rental but so far it has been time well spent. None have come back unusable for future events (so far). And what little damage there has been have all been easy fixes.
I took a picture of all 10 together and its fun to note that each is unique in its own right. Lessons learned and use of various in hand parts. Next goal is a batch of G43s and perhaps an SVD40.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jun 4, 2022 23:11:26 GMT -5
To clear up some confusion a few had actual Garand gas assemblies a few used actual Garand upper hand guards and some have canvas web slings while most had leather slings. Most had components that I fabricated to look like the gas assemblies and handguards. Hence the materials cost varied from gun to gun but the total outlay was under $800.00. I will continue to share discoveries and should anyone on here wish to tackle the project feel free to ask questions as I will happily provide assistance anywhere I can.
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Post by hardslack on Jun 27, 2022 12:52:20 GMT -5
2ndBatt sent images of these out awhile back and I have been slacking in getting them posted.
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Post by hardslack on Jun 27, 2022 13:06:00 GMT -5
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Post by hardslack on Jun 27, 2022 13:08:56 GMT -5
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Post by hardslack on Jun 27, 2022 13:11:53 GMT -5
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jul 28, 2022 18:57:20 GMT -5
Thanks for posting those. As you can see in the pictures the process looks pretty hideous throughout and the resin paste requires multiple layers with sanding and shaping in stages. The end result looks and feels very solid and is extremely robust. Unlike regular Bondo which is brittle and easily cracks this dyna glass is very durable. They have been dropped banged about and used now at multiple events with nonsignificant repairs. In the first picture you can see the size difference between the DE somewhat undersized M14 base and the UKARMs full sized springer. In the large group pictures you can see that each gun is somewhat unique. Truly custom builds. You can also see the variations in shortened magazines.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 20, 2022 22:19:58 GMT -5
These were issued out for a local WW2 event and saw extensive use. No issues other than one lower sling hardware breaking. (I was worried about that). Thin strips of black cloth tape secured everything and hopefully will hold out for a few more events. They definitely chocked up some eliminations and players seemed to like them. Not as competitive as the AEG Garands naturally but since a little more than 1/3rd of the rifles were bolt action or springers they did just fine.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Jan 17, 2023 22:41:23 GMT -5
I ended up making four of these along with my one somewhat undersized Garand (shown in my curent avatar). They all work great and have held up well after being used at events. Repairs to the front sights were required on a couple of them and one rear sling hardware snapped. (My G43 project will provide replacement parts.). Interestingly like the little carbines they seem to shoot a little better after a little break in!
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