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Post by Capt. Zak on Mar 1, 2007 22:24:57 GMT -5
Achtung!!! Attention!!!
As of today, March 1, 2007, the WW2AA is implimenting the unit requirements set forth by the Board of Directors & Forum Moderators. Since the organization has grown quite a bit in the last year, we need to establish official requirements & standards for any & all units that wish to be part of the WW2AA. What does this mean if you already have a unit? Well it means you have a unit, but you are not sanctioned by the WW2AA yet. Please note, a minimum age limit of 13 is now in place for all forum & event participation.
UNIT SIZE
First off. A unit will consist of (3) members, minumum, to be recognized "officially" by the WW2AA. Now if you are a lonesome dove without a unit you can still be an active member of this forum and events. You would have to get an official unit's permission to join them in the field for events. This brings up the question of rank. ALL members will start as privates/schute until (4) members are present in your unit. At that point, (1) NCO is allowed and you become a "squad".
SQUAD SIZE
Squads will consist of the following:
(1) NCO (1) Jr. NCO (2-12) rifle men
When Squad size hits (12) they will be divided into (2) squads each consisting of:
(1) NCO (1) Jr. NCO (4 - 6) rifleman
PLATOON SIZE
Three squads will make up a platoon. A platoon in it's full strenght will be a max of 27 men consisting of:
(1) 1st Lt. (1) 2nd Lt. (1) Platoon Sgt. (3) NCO's (3) Jr. NCO's (18) riflemen UNIT REGISTRATION
It will be a units NCO or designee (if no NCO is present) to email me their units info. I will need the following:
1. Unit Nationality (ie. German, US, Italian, etc) 2. Unit Name (ie. 11.SS, 2nd Rangers, etc) 3. NCO or unit contact person 4. First & Last Name of each unit member 5. Location of your unit (city, state, country) 6. Proof that the WW2AA Forum link is in a prominent location on your unit's home page (if you have one)
Upon receiving this information it will be reviewed. Upon acceptance you will receive an email reply with your "official" WW2AA unit membership number as well as an "official" logo that you can display (proudly) on your units homepage or private forum.
Official unit rosters will be posted with contact information. These will be used for recruiting purposes. We can then rid the forum of the dozens of "Anyone doing airborne in Frezno" posts. ;D
If you are a single member with no unit, you will be listed as "reenforcements" on a seperate page. Units can use this info to recruit as well. For single members I will need:
1. First & last name 2. Your impression (ie. German, US, Italian) 3. Your location 4. Your contact info
Now I know there are a lot of guys with dual impressions. For now we ask that you pick a primary impression and post your secondary impression as a "reenforcement". What I don't want to see is 4 different units all filling up with the same names just to build numbers & rank. If it happends, it will be dealt with.
I thank all of you for taking the time to read this post and I await the your emails and unit registrations. This will greatly improve & organize our hobby and make it structured and more enjoyable for all! Please PM/email me with any questions. Now get those rosters together and let's get them in!!! That is all.
Sincerely,
Jeff Fronczak ~Capt. Zak~ WW2AA Treasurer
(Added on 03-02-07)
If you do not have an impression yet or are not sure what impression you are doing you will not register at this point. Let's face it, with out a uniform you're not going to be participating in any events. You ARE incouraged however, to find a unit that will take you under their wing, borrow you some gear and get you in the field. We do not want to allienate anyone. So just because you do not have an impression yet, is no reason to feel or be left out. Allienating people is NOT the reason for this new structure. Believe me, it will help orgainze this hobby and make recruiting new members a lot easier.
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Post by troyluginbill on Mar 2, 2007 1:38:32 GMT -5
Jeff,
I guess I am listed as a reenforcement.
Troy Luginbill Impression: US 1st marine division, 5th regiment, 1st Battalion, recon company. 1938-1947 Lynden, Whatcom County, Washington State Luginbill2@yahoo.com
If you need more let me know. Thanks, Troy
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Post by Capt. Zak on Mar 2, 2007 8:23:42 GMT -5
Gentlemen, please PM or email this info to me as stated in the post above. Thanks. - Jeff
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Mar 2, 2007 10:43:25 GMT -5
I have a quick and I believe valid question(s) Does NOT being a WW2AA registered unit prevent us from participating in your events?
While I believe what you are trying to do is a good thing and will help organize newcomers and make ease of organizing events; what you are asking of older or already created units, is to revamp already made structures. Pardon me but I am a little reluctant to do this after investing so much time, effort and money into the impression of a couple of German officers.
I think it would be wise of you to sell this idea a little better. What motivation is there in spending more money, time and effort in changing my units’ impression to be sanctioned by you guys?
What does being sanctioned really mean? Right now it means very little without further elaboration from you guys.
Please take my response as an argument in good jest.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 2, 2007 14:02:12 GMT -5
I think what Zak is trying to prevent is having an event with 40 folks and 12 of them are officers with a couple of them staff rank or higher. 10 more are NCOs!
"Colonel" I need you to have your four guys, hold their position while the major takes his two guys and manuevers on the right flank." By aligning rank somewhat more authentically the event takes on a greater sense of credibility.
I would be a little put out if I held an event, counting on some semblence of leadership flow and to confuse folks. (Many of whom don't know one another) a guy shows up by himself is a Captain or a Major or even a staff sgt for that matter. Troops, as in a real situation, should be able to see the rank and have it mean something.
At the long winter I didn't know many of the folks but I knew the ranks on their collar or sleaves actually held some significance. (Not much of course, but something) when I saw guys milling around I could grab a sgt and assign him those men and give them some direction as to what they might be doing and I knew they would, and should follow the direction of the NCO. Hellmut, all the way down to the corporal level doesn't take rank lightly. He doesn't overly obsess over it either. The result is they don't have a bunch of prema donnas running around screaming at folks. He just makes sure folks that are wearing rank proportionately represent the number of folks there or that the came play is representing and that the folks with rank deserve them. In some cases he'll assign a higher rank designation to a game controller who is not directly involved in game play but is either a vehicle safety officer or game controller (official observer)
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Post by mikkel on Mar 2, 2007 17:02:13 GMT -5
What about forum members that will most likely never participate in a US based game, but still is active in say, the European ww2 airsoft scene? Do we continue to stay on the boards as usual?
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DeB
Private
AGM MP40 - Marui M733 and G3A4 Revenant
Posts: 179
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Post by DeB on Mar 3, 2007 5:34:41 GMT -5
quote mikkel, I live in italy, I love ww2 weapons but I haven't an impression of something ww2... Please, can I stay here and partecipate???
bye bye!
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Post by 2ndranger on Mar 3, 2007 10:35:03 GMT -5
I believe that the rules above state that in order to attend our events or be part of the WW2AA you must comply with them. Some advice is you want to participate follow (my best ditka impersonation) da rules.
Schutze
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Post by phantom12321 on Mar 3, 2007 23:04:24 GMT -5
yeah, these rules apply to attending events, not participating on the boards. You crazy Europeans are just fine.
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Post by mischief on Mar 4, 2007 19:42:08 GMT -5
Ok so I'm still in the process of getting my gear and guys together. And I come to this boards to read about the whats going on and for uniform info. This new rule going to keep me from getting what I need to do a correct impression? As far as ranks go(and this is mostly the under 21 crowd no offense but its true) every one wants to be E-lite or officers. The group I'm putting together is jusy a plain Jane 3ID ground pounders(mostly do to the wife being related to A.Murphy) So until I get the crew up to speed you going to kick us off the forum? How will we let you know about the games we put on in STL, if you do that?
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Russian
Corporal
Magician
Posts: 923
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Post by Russian on Mar 4, 2007 19:58:09 GMT -5
The ranks only apply to the events the WW2AA host. However, I do believe that the age limit does apply to both events and the forum.
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Post by mischief on Mar 4, 2007 20:11:35 GMT -5
I'm fine with that, it just seemed.... alittle off the way it was read. I fully understand the need to add age requirments, and the need to make a ranking structure that is not so "TOP" heavy. You should add that not everyone was Rangers or Mountain or other groups that are "Hollywood". Just like my groups 3ID, some of them(myself included) will be putting on German Herr, and Russian infantry imp's as well as bringing gear for all listed so to even out sides wherever we go. For the most part people need/have to remember who was in the field doing the fighting, maybe make a post(or is there one) of actual unit structure in the field. Once they see that not everyone was an LT or Major or even a Topkick they may adjust their impression before hand.
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Post by Capt. Zak on Mar 4, 2007 20:37:14 GMT -5
You DO NOT need to be with a unit or even have an impression to participate in the forum. The forum is here to educate, discuss, and help build impressions. These rank & unit requirements are in place to add order & structure at events.
In other words, it will keep 35 101st Airborne Eazy Co. Master Sgt's from showing up at events.
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Post by tagg on Mar 4, 2007 21:43:07 GMT -5
I do have one minor issue with the unit ranking. You say that one squad will have one NCO and one Jr. NCO. I think you're missing something there. A squad is broken into three leadership positions, squad leader to the fore and two team leaders standing behind him. The squad leader will hold the rank of Sgt, as you have stipulated. But then what of the two separate team leaders? Is one a corporal while the other must be a private? I'll just C&P an article I wrote quite a while ago that detailed rank in the 45th before any rank was organized: 45th I.D. Ranking
For each squad there must be at a minimum, seven men. This equals a squad leader, a Base of Fire Team leader with two men under him (referred to as the BoF team), and an assault team leader with two men under him.
The squad leader shall have a rank from Corporal to Staff Sergeant.
The assault team leader and the BoF team leader shall have a rank from Private First Class to Sergeant, this rank cannot exceed that of the squad leader.
The riflemen must consist of Privates and Private First Classes.
An example of said system is thus:
Squad leader: Sergeant Assault team leader (assistant squad leader): Corporal BoF team leader: Corporal Two riflement: Private First Class Two riflemen: Private
In the case of two squads, there shall be one man in charge of both with a rank between Staff Sergeant and Master Sergeant. He will be the Platoon Sergeant in charge of both squads and their efficiency in working together.
An example could be, but is not limited to, something like this:
Platoon Sergeant: Staff Sergeant
1st squad leader: Staff Sergeant Assault team leader: Sergeant BoF team leader: Corporal Riflemen: Private-Private First Class
2nd squad leader: Sergeant Assault team leader: Private First Class BoF team leader: Corporal Riflemen: Private-Private First Class
Note how the rank of the assault team leader of the 1st squad is equal to that of the squad leader of the 2nd squad. While at a glance, they may have equal rank, the sergeant from the 2nd squad still has seniority, and the man in 1st squad should follow him commands in the event of his squad leader being killed. Also note that the assault team leader in the second squad is a private first class, and while his rank is equal to that of the riflemen, the common rifleman's rank does not exceed it. In case of a conflict in rank, defer to the one who has a higher position in the command tree.
Another interesting issue is when two squad leaders of the same rank should happen into each other. What should happen? Should they ignore each other? No! The 45th I.D. is a unit that needs to rely on its allies for success; therefore, communication between squads is something that cannot be stinted. Rather, it is a case-by-case scenario. The platoon sergeant shall brief the squad leaders prior to the mission on what is expected.
When the objective is to scout on a patrol for the frontlines, the usual case will be two squads running independently of each other, and probing different areas of the line. In the case of a mission objective such as taking a farmhouse, fire and movement will be a must, and the Platoon Sergeant will act as the platoon leader, commanding the two separate squads much as the squad leader commands his two separate teams.
For each platoon, there shall be four squads.
The rank will be issued as such:
Two officers: one CO, and one XO, these men shall never be on the field, but should remain behind to coordinate the attack.
One platoon sergeant: this man is in charge of coordinating the four separate squads. (staff sergeant-master sergeant)
4 squad leaders: these men are the core NCO's, and are the most important men of the unit. (corporal-staff sergeant)
8 team leaders: these men must understand the importance of following orders, and must be good riflemen before they can be promoted to team leader. (private first class to sergeant)
36 riflemen: these men are the grunts, and they must be well trained to follow orders, or they will put the unit's well-being at risk. (private-private first class)
When in doubt, always defer to the man with higher position. If position is equal, defer to the one who has the higher rank of the two. When two men in equal rank have equal postions, play rock, paper, scissors to determine who shall lead. I don't know what you guys think, any comments would be appreciated. We have had this up in the 45th forum for quite a while now but never thought to contribute it to the WW2AA forums. I do applaud what is being done though, rank is something that should be earned, not handed out. I suppose if Zak's plan won't be changed, it won't affect us a great deal as our standards are pretty much the same. What do the rest of your guys think? -Pvt. Wittrock 45th I.D. CO
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 4, 2007 21:50:52 GMT -5
Guys! It only comes into play when attending sanctioned events. Zak has a four star general impression (Patton) that he wears to other events. You're free to tantalize your fantasies with whatever impressions you want and designate yourself whatever rank you want EXCEPT when you attend a WW2aa game. At those you must wear rank apprpriate for the size unit you lead or a rank you achieved in actual service to your country. Pretty simple and reasonable rule really.
Mischief everyone applauds your desire to represent regular grunt GIs. I think we're all getting a little tired of the proliferation of 506 AB impressions although it's unbderstandable given the influence SPR and BoB has had on our hobby.
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Post by 2ndranger on Mar 4, 2007 22:28:56 GMT -5
One suggestion if I may towards those who lead units or are thinking of starting one. If you are about to start a team or are already incharge of a unit build or shape your unit around these rules because most likely if your from around here youll be attending ww2aa hosted events. If you do this you wont be frustrated or angry with the rules above because you had to change your chevrons. Save yourself the trouble.
Schutze
Schutze
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Post by Capt. Zak on Mar 4, 2007 23:21:17 GMT -5
Guys! It only comes into play when attending sanctioned events. Zak has a four star general impression (Patton) that he wears to other events. You're free to tantalize your fantasies with whatever impressions you want and designate yourself whatever rank you want EXCEPT when you attend a WW2aa game. Actually 2nd Bat...I only wear the Patton impression for the USO dances at reenacting events. That is the only time you can get away with such a thing. They go loosey-goosey on rank so guys can show off. If I showed up in the field as Patton I would be slapped and told to leave. ;D And I only do "3 star" Patton. I'll be i na few parades this year as "Ole Blood & Guts".
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Post by Gordak on Mar 8, 2007 20:11:54 GMT -5
sorry 2ndmarine45 that post had to be deleted.
First of all these boards are for ww2airsofters everyone is welcome here.
These rules are concered with ww2aa games, IE what is expected in the feild. (we are making an entire rule system).
I know in New England, we are probably 2 years away from a ww2aa game. So in truth the rank rules won't even be enforced untill then,
So that people won't be shocked at the last moment, these common sense rules are being posted now. Yes these rules are common sense, please appreciate common sense.
An exception I would like to see, concerns actuall vetrans who achived ranks in real life. I think in some cases they should be honoured with those ranks in airsoft. If we go that route, we are going to have alot of NCOs and a few Officers im sure. ant this might screw with the exact numbers.
Like I said guys dont get pissed by these rules, just make yourself aware that this is the direction we (the actual ww2aa members) want to head in. It doesn't mean you need to leave the message board. -Gordak
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 8, 2007 21:24:05 GMT -5
In response to an actual squad design in fact a sqaud would typically be lead by a buck sgt and each of the sections within the squad would have a corporal. 13 man squads in airsoft aren't capable of mutual support. The weapons simply don't have the range. Hence a buck sgt leading one manuever element and a corporal leading the second element is the intent. A 13 man WW2 perfect TO&E squad would have at least a couple corporals. with the rest being privates and tech ranks.
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Post by theshadow on Mar 12, 2007 21:41:52 GMT -5
A clarification here, please. I chose my impression of a 101st Airborne Division Platoon Sergeant/Technical Sergeat (3 up, 2 down) for two reasons... 1) I actually served in the 101st [C/7/101st Avn Regt, 101st Abn Div (AAslt)] and retired after 20+ years from that proud unit. Admitted, I was a Leg, as the 101st ceased to be a true Airborne Division and instead became an Air Assault Division back in '74, so there were no jump slots. 2) I retired at the actual rank of Sergeant First Class (E-7) and served as a Platoon Sergeant for several years, and even some time as an Acting First Sergeant (unfortunately not enough time served to get the MIKE identifier), so I am still reasonably familiar with the duties/responsibilities involved.
Now I don't currently belong to a Unit, so I would have to show up as a reinforcement. Are you going to tell me I have to pull my stripes off and get rid of the horizontal stripe on my helmet if I want to play? Mind you, I always carry my Retired ID card with me and am MORE than willing to show a copy of my DD214 to back up my Service claims.
The_Shadow aka Kenneth M. Collins SFC, USA Retired
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Post by kellhound on May 25, 2007 12:48:34 GMT -5
Right now, we are five, BUT diferent nationalities and branches and don't consider ourselves a "unit". Two of us have two equipations (USMC and german), but I won't register until one of the others gets the one needed to bring us to three of each.
Besides, unless you organize an event in Spain, we won't meet in quite a time, I'm afraid. And that could prove difficult, beacuse here airsofters and reenactors don't mix well right now.
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Post by CharleyNovember on May 25, 2007 17:23:34 GMT -5
Here either sometimes, You have to find the right reenactors. I have met a few nice guys.
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Post by vjnavy on Apr 2, 2009 20:44:34 GMT -5
I am 13 so I can shoot people now?
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Post by ian00 on Jul 18, 2011 16:17:45 GMT -5
Can people from one state join a unit from another state?
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Post by Rapture on Jul 18, 2011 17:04:35 GMT -5
Well this thread is before my time but yes usually if the unit wants you it doesnt matter where you are from as long as you can go to events
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Post by ian00 on Aug 7, 2011 18:27:05 GMT -5
Thanks I needed that answer.
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Post by gunner on Jul 13, 2013 19:01:06 GMT -5
Okay, wow I'm a late bloomer on this topic. This is the way I run the Raiders/Chutes. We go as a "unit", whichever unit that may be for the event. We don't have to worry about patches and all the other b.s., in the Corps patches were worn only on the dress uniform and WW1 and 2 were the only time we (I'm a Marine) wore them. So, with rank, I'm the OIC, I have real vets as my senior leadership and my junior leaders are guys who have been with us, trained with is and have shown leadership capabilities. My "gunny" is an 82nd Grenada vet, did time with some 82nd recon LRS-D unit so he and I understand one another. My guys join as pvts unless they have some kind of real world experience. We don't really have the issue that the big events have because here in people's Republyk of Kalyfornya, not a lot of PTO events. We do our own, we're self contained. Our opfor guys do IJA, CCF/NKA, Indonesia Commies, Viet Minh, VC/NVA . We all know our status and place.
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