2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 31, 2006 15:21:53 GMT -5
This thread has gotten a little stale so I think I'll pose another series of quizzes. Feel free to answer with your best guesses or to demonstrate your catalogue of worthless knowledge:
1. What were the combat branches within the US Army during WW2? Hint there were 7 if you count the Army air corp as a combat branch.
2. Name some other service support branches. (there were 13 others in the US Army during WW2.
3. Which is higher in rank a Lt General or a Major general?
4. What is the branch color for the Infantry?
5. Cavalry?
6. Medical Corp?
7. Signal Corp?
8. What was the collar insignia for the Tank Destroyer Branch?
9. Signal Corp?
10. Armour?
11. What rank generally headed a Battalion?
12. What rank generally headed a Regiment
13. How about a Brigade?
14. What was the significance of the enlisted technical grades? (Tech five vs. a corporal? for example)
15. What did the diagonal hash marks on the sleave denote?
16. What did the shorter gold bars on the lower sleave denote?
17. What was one of the unique privleges a general officer enjoyed relative to head gear?
18. What denotes a higher rank, Gold or silver? Give the two examples.
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Post by wade on Oct 31, 2006 21:42:11 GMT -5
1. Infantry, Air Corps, Medical Corps, Judge Advocate General, Signal Corps, Artillery, Airborne
3. Lt. General
15. Combat wounds
18. Silver, ex. 1st Lieutenant, Lt. Colonel
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 31, 2006 23:46:08 GMT -5
Thanks for jumping in.
Re: #1 Infantry, Army Air Corp and Artillery are three of the seven combat arms branches from WW2. Airborne fell under the Infantry umbrella Signal Corp, JAG and medical Corp are 3 of the service support branches.
#3 Is correct! Oddly enough a Lt General (3 star) is higher then a major general (2 star)
#15 Is a good guess but wrong
#18 Is right on with the correct examples.
Let's hear from others with guesses or answers!
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Post by spitfire740 on Nov 1, 2006 0:05:02 GMT -5
15.) number of years in service? 17.) Only needed to wear liner?
Only some guesses
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 1, 2006 14:28:19 GMT -5
#15 is somewhat correct. Each diagonal hash mark represented 3 years of service My father wore seven I was entitled to wear 2. These are still worn but only with the dress blue uniform. What about the small gold bars on the sleave? Hint my father had more then virtually anyone in the ETO and was always stopped by the MPs in England because they didn't believe he could be entitled.
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Post by mauser98k on Nov 1, 2006 22:23:22 GMT -5
1.Armor, Infantry, Air corps, naval forces.
2.WAC
3.Lt. Gen.
4.Light blue.
5.yellow
6.Red/white
7.Yellow
11.colonal?
12. Lt. Col?
13. General?
14.Medical duties and engineers?
15. Every 6 months overseas?
16. Every 2 years in the military?
17.(edit, forgot to add vertical) A vertical officers stripe located in the rear of his helmet.
18. Gold, hence 1st and 2nd lieutenant and major and lt. colonel. (i think)
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 1, 2006 23:42:23 GMT -5
#1. Armor, Infantry and Air Corp are three. Four more to go. (Think collar insignia for officers and enlisted men of the time.) #2. WAC is one more to add to signal, JAG and med corp already given. There are nine more. #3 we already had (Lt General) #4.Correct! Infantry blue is a light powder blue. #5. Correct! Cavalry is yellow #6. Red and white is logical for the med corp and a good guess but is wrong. #7 & 9 (Oops) Signal corps color is not yellow, (Already taken by the cavalry) #8. Collar insignia for the tank destroyer branch is rare since the branch was eliminated after the war (A concept that was flawed even during the war) No answers yet. #10. Still looking for the branch color for armor #11. A battalion would not have been headed by a colonel #12. A regiment was headed by a...(Still looking for a guess here) #13. A General wore four stars and typically lead an ARMY Think 3rd Army, 12th Army etc. Patton, Bradley etc. So I'm looking for the correct rank heading a BRIGADE? #14. There was a reason for the army creating the technical grades what do you suppose it was? Often these ranks are in specialized fields but that's not the main reason the army did it. #15. Was answered above in response to spitfires guess. The hash mark denoted 3 completed years of service. #16. Still looking for an answer what did those little bars on the sleave mean? If the hash marks told you how long he'd/ she'd been in the service what else would be nice to know? #17 A verticle hash mark on the back of the helmet was for all officers (in the ETO) although not always used. A hint on the unique priveledge general grade officers had relative to head gear think Patton and Gen MacArthur the two who took best advantage of it during the war. #18. Was already answered correctly by WADE and reinforced by Mauser
Still looking for several anwers. we've got correct answers for: #3, #4, #5, #15 and #18. partial answers for #1 and #2.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 3, 2006 16:06:17 GMT -5
Yikes! Apprently this time I made the quiz too hard?
I'll help you out with questions one and two:
#1. Combat Branches for the Army in WW2 were: Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Army Air Corp, Coastal Artillery, Tank Destroyer Branch, and Cavalry.
#2. The Service and Support Branches for the Army were: Engineers, Medical Corp, WAC, Judge Advocate General Corp, Transportation, Ordinance, Logistics Command, Signal Corp, Adjutant Generals Corp, Chemical Corp, Military Police, and Finance and Special Services Command.
Let's get answers for the reamining questions! #6, thru #14 and need answers for #16 and #17. These really aren't that hard and are reasonable things for you history and military buffs to know.
Let's get with it soldiers!
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
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Post by Nimlas on Nov 3, 2006 17:11:13 GMT -5
Yay! More quizes.
8) I beleive it is an M3 tank destroyer on a brass disc. The officer version was just an M3. 11)Lt. 12) Colonel 16)Time over seas! 17)they only wore helmet liners
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 3, 2006 20:57:14 GMT -5
Nimlas,
8. Excellent. yes the Tank Destroyer Insignia was an M3 Htrack. As indicated the enlisted was on a disc and the Officers larger and bolder. Fairly rare insignia
11. A regiment, by design, was headed by a Lt Colonel (I know you meant to finish that with the colonel part.)
12. The regiment would be headed by a full bird colonel
17. The small hash bars are for 3 month stints over seas in a combat theater. (Not neccessarily in combat) My father went to England with the original deployement of US forces to England following Pearl Harbor with the original command element ETOUSA before his group became part of SHAEF. By D-Day he was a staff sgt in England with 9 overseas bars on his sleave when most had maybe two. He was constantly stopped by MPs in London who thought he was a "PX Soldier" He finally started carrying a copy of his transfer orders. By then end of the war he had 10 which was very unusual for the ETO
Rank as indicate above was the design. Units were often lead by lower ranked individuals for a time awaiting promotion. (Majors heading Battalions and especially Lt Colonels heading Regiments.
So good job Nimlas more questions remain.
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Post by corpsman on Nov 4, 2006 23:07:53 GMT -5
there was no Brigade during ww2, it`s a post vietnam name.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 5, 2006 19:12:00 GMT -5
Good catch but not entirely correct. There were Brigade structures for generations within the British military Hence the term "Brigadier" general. The US Army had Brigades but dropped them in favor of a trilogy system of progressive units. (3 rifle platoons to a company, three rifle companies to to a Bn, Three rifle battalions to a regiment. Instread of brigades the US army typically referred to Combat commands within a Division which allowed them greater flexibility then a formalized Brigade structure in arranging the element for the task at hand. (tank heavy or Infantry heavy for example) They still kept the term brigades but didn't actually use them during WW2 in the traditional sense. Vietnam had Brigades. In Vietnam a great unit was the 173rd Airborne Brigade, the Sky Soldiers.
In WW2 a Brigadier general typically served as deputy commander for a Division which was typically headed by a Major General. A Lt General (with three stars typically headed a Corp and a Four star general headed a Army or Army Group. A Five star general was a Theater commander. Such as Eisenhower in the European Theater and MacArthur in the Pacific (Though he shared his theater command with Admiral Nimitz.) Any General ranked officer had the right to wear whatever head gear he wished and had no uniform restraints. Most did nothing except wear the traditional available head gear (although each seem to have his signature preference. Mark Clark preffered the overseas cap as did Bradley while Eisenhower seemed to like the leather brimmed service hat. PATTON on the otherhand greatly prefered a black shiney helmet liner as did several general officers in his 3rd Army. MacArthur put scrambled eggs on his brim which became standardized for field grade officers caps after the war. It was his own creation but as a general he had that right.
So we still have thre branch colors and the purposes or significance of the technical rank system for enlisted men.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 7, 2006 13:05:13 GMT -5
No ones is biting so I'll go ahead and answer my own questions.
The technical ranks were to reward expertise and duration of time on a job by giving an increase in pay grade while not assigning along with it the authority of command. Hence an E-5 with a technical grade could still be given orders by a corporal (E-4)
In saving private Ryan the interpretter was an E-4 (tech 5) at one point he was referred to as "Corporal" by Capt Miller which was actually a theatrical script element designed to boost his sense of morale. In fact he was subordinant to every other soldier in the squad and later in the movie receives combat orders from the jewish private. (an E-2)
Branch colors not provided were Armor which was Gold, Signal corp which was SIGNAL ORANGE! and medical Corp which was Burgundy. Others not asked about are: Artillery which is blood red, Military Police which is Hunter Green. On the dress blue uniform these colors are reflected in the hat band and arm braid. Also post war branches often wore ascots in their branch color with both class A uniforms and occassionally field uniforms when not in combat. Think of the scene in We were soldiers Once and Young when the Lt Colonel (Mel Gibson)had his blue dickie on in the hanger along with his fatigues when the helicopter ("New Cavalry Horse") flew by. In reality the good Colonel was a Cavarly officer (1st Cav Division Airmobile) and should have been wearing a yellow ascot!)
Sometimes knowing too much can ruin a movie for you! Oh well it was still a pretty good movie.
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Post by 5thrangerinfantry on Nov 17, 2006 14:51:05 GMT -5
The technical ranks were to reward expertise and duration of time on a job by giving an increase in pay grade while not assigning along with it the authority of command. Hence an E-5 with a technical grade could still be given orders by a corporal (E-4) In saving private Ryan the interpretter was an E-4 (tech 5) at one point he was referred to as "Corporal" by Capt Miller which was actually a theatrical script element designed to boost his sense of morale. In fact he was subordinant to every other soldier in the squad and later in the movie receives combat orders from the jewish private. (an E-2) I never thought those were orders. As far as his authority, I've always read and heard that a T-5 (2 stripes and a 't') had the same authority as the next rank down a PFC and a T-4 (3 stripes and the 't') was the same as a Corporal. I remember reading it recently in the notes in the back of one of the books I read recently - I believe it was from veteran interviews by the author of "American Iliad: The 18th Infantry Regiment in World War Two" I'll have to look and see if I can find that again.....
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 17, 2006 21:19:48 GMT -5
The practicality in the field for various units might have been totally different then the structural intent but the intent of the Technical rank and much later the Specialist rank in the US Army was intended to reward expertise without assigning authority. A tech grade individual had no rank authority over any non tech ranked individual. In saving private Ryan the interpreter was definitely taking orders from everyone in the team. "Look when we need ammo you need to be Johnny on the spot you got that?"
He theatrically represented the The liberal intellectual of American isolationism who took too long to react to the Germans with their knife at the throat of the European Jew but as the movie showed he came through at the end with violence and no remorse.
The movie was filled with symbolism. Miller was of course the Christ figure that must die that others could be saved. Speilberg is a genius in that way. The transparency of the flag at the beginning and end of the movie symbolized patriotisms falsehood. People sign up from a sense of national patriotism but perform for their brothers in arms. I could go on and on... Great movie!
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Medic
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Post by Medic on Mar 16, 2008 8:18:46 GMT -5
#8: Yellow and Blue #12: Colonel #14: Tech = A special job, as you see in SPR, Medic Wayde has a small "T" under his Corporal stripes. #15: 5 years of service
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YankeeDiv26
Staff Sgt.
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Post by YankeeDiv26 on Mar 16, 2008 12:42:38 GMT -5
Do not post on a thread that's been inactive for well over a year (aka Necroposting).
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