2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 5, 2006 22:16:35 GMT -5
A german tactic often used and sited by several grizzled actual WW2 veterans who witnessed it and were lucky enough to survive it happened during deliberate attacks (especially night attacks) Often times as the US troops were advancing they would obviously crouch or crawl toward the enemy forward positions.
Doctrine dictated that if possible you did what you could to rveal enemy strengths and weakenesses especially MG positions.
Often times clever germans would deliberately fire what appeared to be the MG positons final protective fires too high. Indicating that the gun positions T&E mechanism had been poorly set. (Traverse and elevation mechanism) At night a MG on a tripod often has a locking mechanism that allows you (even in pitch black) to traverse your MG into a pre selected target alignment that gave you optimal coverage to your defensive front.
By deliberately aiming high they gave the US troops a false sense of security and many an Infantry squad moved carelessly into a wide open killing zone thinking they could move freely under the fire. Once in the kill zone a pre determined signal (Whistle or flare) would go off and the MG would realign with lethal effect.
I heard of this tactic from several WW2 veterans who explained it was particularly effective against green troops who hadn;t heard of it or seen it before. Young officers often fell for it and ordered their men forward foolishly.
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Post by Gordak on Jan 12, 2006 10:16:45 GMT -5
Ouch... -Gordak
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savoy6
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Post by savoy6 on Jan 13, 2006 15:19:33 GMT -5
there is also the the German tactic of using attacks to cover larger withdrawls.they would use a a smaller force to hit our advance to cause us to hold up,while the bulk of his forces would move into prepared defensive positions farther back.these would then serve as cover units for the smaller forces withdrawl.
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silencer
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Post by silencer on Feb 1, 2006 11:06:52 GMT -5
Are there any other german tactics that were "tricks".
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Post by mauser98k on Feb 16, 2006 23:34:36 GMT -5
on dday i heard of a story that when the allies used their crickets, some germans knew those tactics and when they heard one they cocked their k98 and got them out in the open to shoot em.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 17, 2006 1:01:58 GMT -5
Germans changed road signs to confuse convoys. They also strung piano wire over roads to decapitate jeep drivers and passengers who drove with wind screens down to reduce the glare. They also took advantage of their ability to speak English far more commonly then Americans spoke German.
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Post by predator06 on Mar 17, 2006 12:10:01 GMT -5
ya, the Piano wire was nasty. Experienced US Troops began Welding long Vertical poles to the front of there Jeeps to snap the wire. PS! It is Strongly sugested that this particular tactic NOT BE TRIED in an actual airsoft game. ;D DUUUOOOHHGGG!!!!
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Post by mauser98k on Mar 18, 2006 23:00:03 GMT -5
Killjoy....
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Post by hudabon on Jul 31, 2006 23:23:10 GMT -5
Thats amazing, the piano wire thing. But about the germans knowing more english than americans knowing germans, I once read a book that had some diary entries from Goebbels in which he talks about how he had heard from field commanders that "the american prisoners are much less intelectually capable than our own fighting men, that they ask such questions as 'Is Bavaria part of Germany' and other nonsense...if the war would be based on the knowledge and simple sense of those fighting it the war would be a foregone conclusion". Just shows how the Nazi Regime filled the average soldier with a feeling of being a "superman" and arrogance in battle, even Goering once said that all the Americans could make are refridgerators and razor blades. To which Erwin Rommel responded, "I wish our men were given such razor blades!"
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Post by 2ndranger on Aug 4, 2006 0:30:14 GMT -5
Also I heard somewhere that some germans would hide behind a dead comrade and use him as a human shield.
Schutze
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Post by Capt. Zak on Aug 4, 2006 10:01:15 GMT -5
Basically the Germans used the K98's to lure the enemy into the firing position of their MG's. Once the enemy was in the kill zone they became hamburger. On a different note, my Grandfather faught in the CBI Theater and he used to tell me a story about a Japanese Bonzai charge he witnessed. His convoy was held up on a hill overlooking a small valley. The Japs were thought to be across the valley and the combat unit would not let the convoy down the road into the valley in fear that they would be ambushed and the supplies captured. A patrol was sent out and they were engaged by the Japanese. The patrol returned and the .30 cals were put into place on top of the hill. Shortly after the patrol returned the Japanese started their bonzai charges. 6 waves of charges at the US machine gun positions! My Grandfather said it was the craziest thing he has ever seen. Men running full force INTO machine gun fire. Not a very effective Japanese tactic...that always boggles my mind.
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Post by 2ndranger on Aug 4, 2006 10:10:50 GMT -5
Woah thats gotta hurt !!! Good thing military tactics have developed.
Schutze
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 4, 2006 13:24:31 GMT -5
The banzai charge was an anachronistic misrepresentation of the Buapplesauce o creed that considered it honorable to die in combat. In fact Buapplesauce o considered it dishonorable to act without honor and revered bravery above all else but NEVER did it revere stupidity. Samurai warriors historically were fine with surrender if continuing to fight accomplished nothing. There are many examples of them doing so without feeling the need to slash out their stomachs ritualistically. Leaders sometimes did as they felt their decisions had failed their cause but the common Samurai warrior didn't have to. The Japanese Army through training distorted this Bushido creed and created a religious ferver around the dishonor associated with surrender. In the pacific a very very small number of Japanese soldiers surrenderes until the very end of the war and then only on the orders of the emperor who was considered a God. Though the war ended in 1945 the last Japanese soldier to surrender did so in 1977! He had held out on Guam for 32 years. Once back with his family the thing that had shocked him the most was the admission and acceptance that Hirohito was not a deity. Amazing level of reverence to a cause.
The fighting in the Pacific was far more viscious then in Europe
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Post by 2ndranger on Aug 4, 2006 16:36:33 GMT -5
I find 300 guys charging you a horrifying expierience, But The European Theater Through the german point of view must of been horrifying. And who was it more viscious for the Americans or the Japanese.
Schutze
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silencer
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Post by silencer on Aug 6, 2006 14:48:21 GMT -5
Whoa hold in. He held out for 32 years! Did he like fight poeple for that long!? Thats crazy. Didnt they use those kind of bonzai charge tactics in korea as well?
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Post by Jager.Drü on Aug 6, 2006 14:52:26 GMT -5
where did you find that 2nd Bat, I would like to read about it. That last surrendering Jap in 1977
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Post by spitfire740 on Aug 6, 2006 21:38:05 GMT -5
The americans used "Island hop" tactics and never invaded some japanese controlled territories. They thought the transmitions on their radios were american tricks and hid for dozens of years. I have heard about this story before.
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Post by howitzer on Aug 7, 2006 12:21:51 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 7, 2006 13:37:05 GMT -5
Great resource information Howitzer. I literally remember the surrender by the fellow on Guam who showed up with his rifle (no longer functional) after repeated fly overs by his commander on a loud speaker ordering him to surrended at the request of the emporer. It got on national news and was the butt of some cruel jokes on the Tonight Show with Johnny carson. I thought it was 1977 but obviously it was 1972. Apparently the last one was in the Philappines and that would make sense. The joke Johnny Carson told was that after all those years this soldier had all that back pay coming to him. 120 yen! Back in those days Japanese annual income was still relatively low.
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YankeeDiv26
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Post by YankeeDiv26 on Aug 9, 2006 23:25:28 GMT -5
yeah i saw that show a few times. he they even had his family come and search for him but he thought it was a trick. i guess you also wouldnt quite recognize your family afer living in the woods for 30+ years. it said that he was offered over 1000 marriage proposals when he finally surrendered. its a great show and also mindblowing
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guitarmaster
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Post by guitarmaster on Dec 4, 2006 22:16:44 GMT -5
The cricket one mauser was talking about was shown in The Longest Day.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Dec 4, 2006 22:20:35 GMT -5
Hey, sweet nerco post!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2006 15:36:09 GMT -5
also 2 japenese held out on Iwo Jima. he evaded capture and did small raids for food on american camps at night. he finally surrendered in 1947 because he heard the americans were in tokyo, this story was in the book "Flags Of Our Fathers" by James Bradley
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oberst42
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Post by oberst42 on Jun 8, 2009 15:38:55 GMT -5
I know this is a necro post but in north africa german panzer armies would retreat and when british tanks followed them entrenched 88's would open fire
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 2, 2009 12:20:38 GMT -5
In Europe the Americans were convinced the Germans were conducting effective recon patrols behind our lines that were identifying our CPs. The Germans did not have the amount of artillery we had but seemed uncanningly good at zeroing in on our Battalion and Regimental Command Posts. Only after the war did we begin to realize the extent to which the Germans used radio locator beacon trucks to identify locations where heavy radio traffic was being transmitted from and then conduct effective H&I fire. They also monitored our transimissions and reacted to foolish transission our troops might give such as "Applesauce five this is Cumquate seven what is your status, over?" "Cumquate seven this is applesauce five we're fine, Kraut artillery just came in but impacted several hundred yards to the South of us."
Believe it or not that kind of stupidity happened a lot. In Vietnam I heard similar lunacy on the radio. Whenever you speak on the RADIO Assume the enemy is listening and consider how your transmission might help them.
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Retrohead
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Post by Retrohead on Aug 2, 2009 13:11:45 GMT -5
In response to the use of K98's in MG nests, and then switching to the MG; didn't the MG34(or was it the '42?) have the capability of firing on a semi-automatic firing mode?
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mccallion
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Post by mccallion on Aug 2, 2009 15:36:34 GMT -5
yes the mg34 had two triggers one for full and one for semi
mccallion
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Post by the2ndranger on Mar 30, 2010 20:20:47 GMT -5
I read somewhere that in europe the mg34 single shot was used to lure GIs into thinking the were just comming about the avreage rifleman. Then the mg would open up full auto and cut the allied soldiers down. Thats not a good way to start off your day.
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CptJericho
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Post by CptJericho on Mar 30, 2010 21:54:03 GMT -5
Because the MG34 and the Kar98k used the same ammo, when you fired semi auto on the MG34 it sounded like a Kar98k, so soldiers wouldnt think that it was an MG
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Post by gasilec112 on Apr 10, 2010 18:30:36 GMT -5
A trick that Germans used in Yugoslavia. They dressed their Yugoslav units like the 7th ss Volunteer Mountain Division Prinz Eugen into partisans and send them in partisan held territory to gather informations and to destroy small partisan units.
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