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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Dec 26, 2006 15:07:14 GMT -5
While it is nice to see how the real WWII Germans would have done things; has anyone given some thought to the Airsoft tactics that will need to be used?
It is quite obvious to me (In my opinion) that the Germans are or will be out-gunned in the typical assault roles. The TM Thompson already looks like it will out perform and out gun the MP-40 on average. Also it doesn’t appear to me that many German troops will be using support or assault weaponry. Leaving me to believe many German Airsoft troops will be equipped with K-98’s.
I’m not sure what other German teams are going to have available weaponry wise; but the 3rd Fallschirmjäger (New York) will have a single MG-42, maybe one upgraded MP-40, and the rest will be K-98 riflemen. While the MG-42 is a blessing it is not an easy weapon to move around! Secondly, will having a MG-42 really make the difference when faced against an entire squad equipped with Thompson’s?
Do any other German teams/Players have experience or tactics they would like to share with the rest of us in how to deal with a larger-superiorly armed US force in an Airsoft battle? Let’s really get talking about what we can do as German Airsoft players!
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Post by 2ndranger on Dec 26, 2006 18:18:36 GMT -5
Well, the midwest, chicago team uses numbers and objectives as ways to deal with the large # of Allies. We also have some larger weapons on their way, such as a Flak 88 or PAk 40 (still deciding), a mg42 on its way also, I believe we also have 1 Top Mp40 that still works....and I think thats about all, but we win on and off it really depends.
Schutze
Schutze
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Post by Jager.Drü on Dec 26, 2006 19:02:51 GMT -5
Like the German WWII tatics, German airsoft player base their movements around the MG, The whole point is to draw the enemy into the MG fire with the Kar98s.
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Post by spitfire740 on Dec 26, 2006 20:04:44 GMT -5
We often put the Axis on the defensive, since in many cases, defense has somewhat of an advantage.
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Post by 2ndranger on Dec 26, 2006 23:37:35 GMT -5
And yet we still lose....
Schutze
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29ththerealpimps
Private 1st Class
3rd Armored Division 32nd Armored Regiment 83rd Recon Battalion
Posts: 706
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Post by 29ththerealpimps on Dec 27, 2006 8:29:57 GMT -5
We held them good when we were defending. We never had to fall back to the artillery. But yeah we get badly outnumbered most of the time.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Dec 28, 2006 15:13:15 GMT -5
Do you have a MG of some sort? You guys need to make a choke point of some sort, to lead the Allies to your defensive postions, and put the MG there.
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29ththerealpimps
Private 1st Class
3rd Armored Division 32nd Armored Regiment 83rd Recon Battalion
Posts: 706
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Post by 29ththerealpimps on Dec 28, 2006 17:20:59 GMT -5
we used a G3
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Post by 2ndranger on Dec 28, 2006 22:10:20 GMT -5
We do need one, i think i might rig a mortar... and some how get the allies, to get into a targeted area.
Schutze
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Jan 8, 2007 12:58:40 GMT -5
We have 4-12 German men:
We have 2 MG-42’s at our disposal. We have 1 MP-44 or MP-40 at our disposal but not both at the same time. We all have a K-98’s We also have 1 Pak-38 working air cannon. We have 4 claymores We have 2 stick grenades
No one has anything else to say but to focus the allies in on the MG???
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Post by Stewie on Jan 8, 2007 15:00:19 GMT -5
Setup so you have your 2 MG's in "firing lanes", then use your Pak-38, claymores, and riflemen to make it impossible to move anywhere else, except those firing lanes. Basically make them move where you want them to. If you have a road, setup claymores as mines on either side, maybe even put up some "Minen" signs to scare them to not stray off into the woods. At Gothic Line, we had a road with mines on either side, and an MG at the top of the road, so, once they moved up far enough, they would take fire from the MG, and couldnt take cover in the forest without fear of being "blown up". Use your riflemen to protect the MG. If you see people trying to flank you, interdict them with your troops. Also, try sending out 2 man sniper/DM(Designated Marksman) teams. Normally I dont recommend this because I dont believe in airsoft snipers, but if you can take out one of their officers, and get away without being killed, it does alot on morale. Just remember, if there are more of them than you, use every advantage you have, even if it means getting a little dirty with it. Make it seem like there are more of you than there are. Keep a spare hat or helmet with you, and a different jacket or something to make you look different. Keep moving, dont stay in one place for too long. Hit them, retreat, flank, hit them again. If they are getting hit from a couple different angles everyonce in awile, its harder to defend against than one big attack from a single direction. Once you have made contact, YELL, if you know where they are, yell it out!, and have everyone in your squad repeat it. It definatly has the "Oh s***" factor when there are 5 people on the other team that know exactly where you are, and want to kill you. Whistles, your voice, anything that can make alot of noise once the battle has begun will make it seem like there are more of you, making them less likely to attack, or more likely to retreat(depending on the size of their force ofcorse). Just remember, use anything and everything to your advantage(without being unreasonable), war isnt fair. Use the MG's, have the riflemen lure them in, etc... But as always, have fun, its not worth all the trouble if at the end of the day you say "Man what a waste."
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 8, 2007 15:16:29 GMT -5
Stewie,
Well said and good points one and all. The reality is at Carentan the US side (that I was on) was convinced there were far more of you then there was. The shouting and whistles and change of tunics was very effective. Sometimes helmets sometimes soft caps, tunics and grey coats it worked very well. can't wait for the Long Winter.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Jan 8, 2007 17:57:03 GMT -5
No one has anything else to say but to focus the allies in on the MG??? Thats what WWII German Gruppes did, so why can't you, you see the whole squad was based off the MG. You kept the MG safe,running and in a good postion. The rifle men lure the enemy into the line of fire. SL stays with the MG directing fire, the ASL runs with the men to lure others into the MG. Stu I like what you said.
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Post by binarypunisher on Jan 8, 2007 20:44:04 GMT -5
The German squads were based around the machine guns, the Americans around the rifleman.
After WWII, many armies adopted the German approach.
You want clear, overlapping fields of machine gun fire. But you need to be able to funnel them into the kill zone to be really really effective.
I dont want to go off on too much of a tangent here, but I think its interesting.
The Americans and British machine gun teams were organized quite differently, and thats because their guns were different. The American and British used magazine fed machine guns (BAR and Bren), and that were much more mobile than the German belt fed guns. Because of this, the Americans and British developed much more of a 'fire and maneuver' approach than the Germans, the BAR and Bren were far more portable than the MG42 or 34. This of course makes it much more suited to the attacking role, and the Germans to the defensive role (which is essentially what the reality was by the time the Americans entered the war). With the Garand, the US forces were much more able to maintain fire superiority than the Germans, at least in theory. I imagine that if the FG42 or MP44 were ever more widely distributed we would see a similar approach.
By the time the US was fully engrossed in the war, the Germans were by and large on the defensive. So a WWII airsoft game is more than likely going to have the Germans on the defensive (Battle of the Bulge is a notable exception!). The Germans also became very adept at making defensive fortifications. Just look at the Gustav and Gothic Lines.
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Jan 11, 2007 8:14:03 GMT -5
Okay guys! Thank you all for your replies. I have been doing some heavy reading in German WWII infantry without armor or artillery support tactics, after having read your posts.
It does seem the only effective tactic that the Germans have going for them is to relying on the superior fire of the MG.
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Post by Gordak on Jan 11, 2007 10:46:10 GMT -5
we had a good size ww2 airsoft battle where we used the mgs to pin the amis to a particular area. As soon as they were stationary, the k98s having longer range than the thompsons, ripped them to peices. The other thing about the kar 98, is this:
the enemy does not hear a burst of fire and the ducks before it reaches him, instead he usually doesnt even hear the k98 thats shooting at him. There is virtually no warning. its just WHACK!!
-Gordak
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 11, 2007 12:46:07 GMT -5
For the Long Winter, The germans will significantly outnumber the Allies (I think according to enrollements it's already 28 to 17 and they will have armor. At least one fully armored full tracked vehicle so they'll be practicing combined arms attacks (within the safe play, game restrictions) It will be the Infantrys role to move ahead of the tank(s) to clear AT weapons and bazooka teams to insure the tanks survival so it can be free to exploit any breakthroughs. On the tightly channelized roads of the AO we have selected the Tank(s) will not be free to wreak the kind of havoc they normally would. (Very Ardennes like) Bridges will create natural choke points and a main US mission will be to defend them until they can be rigged with demo and blown. (Simulated of course)
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Post by binarypunisher on Jan 11, 2007 13:52:25 GMT -5
The numbers I believe are 23-15. Should be different, Germans are used to be outnumbered!
Dont the Allies have jeeps though too?
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Post by Jager.Drü on Jan 11, 2007 14:14:40 GMT -5
Yeah, at least 2 I think.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 12, 2007 0:16:56 GMT -5
So let me think....Jeeps vs Tanks Hmmmmmmm? I'm pretty sure we'll have the AT gun as well as a few bazookas but that's all according to the game play restrictions of the controllers.
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Post by kurtsteiner on May 1, 2007 7:31:13 GMT -5
hi gentlemen a tactic i use too very good effect is the ambush followed by an imediate assault or withdraw to another position. you need to find a good covered position, and use some foliage to ad camo to ur helmet, also stuff some in ur yoke straps around ur shoulders and back. have a couple of pyros laid out next to you, i usually use a flash bang and a smoke grenade. when you see the enemy aproach, stay still until they get very close, then open fire, give them a few bursts, throw the smoke, a few more bursts, then throw the flash bang, reload , then charge them to finish them off while their ears are still ringing from the flash bang, if there are to many off them, instead of assaulting, pull back instead, they are usualy not eager to follow for some time. it works even better if you have a couple of kameraden with you.
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Post by Jager.Drü on May 1, 2007 9:15:43 GMT -5
Um, throwing smoke and a flashbang won't do anything good. 1. You are trying to kill the person, not hide them with your smoke 2. Flashbangs weren't around during WWII and wouldn't work in smoke 3. If you are going to throw anything, throw a high explosive grenade. 4. In a ambush you don't move untill everyone is dead or it wasn't a good ambush. 5.Germans don't pull back. 6. Ambushes are done with more than one person, you want enough firepower to overcome the enemy getting ambushed.
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Post by Ripper on May 1, 2007 10:42:11 GMT -5
Crap...I'm not allowed to actualy kill anyone at our airsoft games. We just have to pretend!! I'm definately going to bring that up at the next board meeting. Anyhow..the flashbang would definately be a good simulator for a frag grenade, but those are also banned for our group. Never mind the prohibitive expense. Raking the killzone with automatic fire and withdrawing under cover of smoke always makes sense but assaulting into the smoke does not. Normal SOP is to assault into the zone to mop up before withdrawing, but I don't want to provie the enemy a smoke screen to hide under. I will be the one getting nailed instead as I try to fumble through the smoke.
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Post by kurtsteiner on May 1, 2007 12:25:12 GMT -5
the idea of the flashbang is to simulate the grenade, it causes confusion and helps to break the enemy morale, assaulting through smoke is the SOP of most armies, mine included when i was doing my basic training and field exes. sounds strange but it does work, nothing wrong with assaulting from the ambush position, scares them to death cus they don't expect it. the british army training flash bang, is not quite the same as you may expect, its more bang than flash (the good old MK5 thunderflash)
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Post by CharleyNovember on May 1, 2007 13:26:46 GMT -5
Hard to get stuff like flashbangs for civilian use in the US...Coast Guard smoke is readily available though.
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Post by kurtsteiner on May 1, 2007 15:11:59 GMT -5
yeh its wierd, for us automatic firearms are totaly illegal, yet flashbangs and stuff like military smoke grenades are real easy to find, makes no sense to me sometimes
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Post by 2ndranger on May 1, 2007 15:25:48 GMT -5
I just realized that allies can sneak on this thread and learn how we move...uh oh..
Schutze
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Sturmmann13
Private
bring a knife to a gun fight
Posts: 272
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Post by Sturmmann13 on May 1, 2007 17:56:22 GMT -5
Re start the Axis board!!!!!
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Post by waffensstyler on Sept 25, 2009 15:55:42 GMT -5
the smoke grenade is simple to make 3 parts sugar 2 parts potassium nitrate fry intil peanut buttery anget fuse and your good
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Post by waffensstyler on Sept 25, 2009 15:56:53 GMT -5
by the way can we think of the weaknesses for awhile to patch them up anyone?
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