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Post by 2ndranger on Oct 11, 2006 19:36:13 GMT -5
Getting the supplies and such wont be a problem, I like to get some big guns Itll be able to break down and fold so that takes care of transportation, and the gun will be wood, metal, and pvc.
Schutze
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Post by mauser98k on Oct 11, 2006 19:37:27 GMT -5
lol schutze have you seen a real 88 before? It's wayy too huge to make a cheap quick prop of. :\
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jaeger
Private 1st Class
Posts: 478
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Post by jaeger on Oct 11, 2006 19:43:19 GMT -5
I agree, the 88 is REALLY big. However, the whole notion of working artillery is great. I am with you all the way. You seem to want the gun to make a loud noise, which I am still unsure of how to do. However, Russian had a good point. Using some type of spring may work. Another idea, would be to somehow fit a large rubberband within the back of the barrel. What I mean is the kind used to launch water baloons a few city blocks (you know what I mean?). One of those could easily launch a paper bag with flour. Let me know your ideas.
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Post by 2ndranger on Oct 11, 2006 19:47:59 GMT -5
Well Yes mauser Ive Actually seen one up close and I plan to make a scale exact replica of one (without the shield) One Idea Jaeger is to put a combustion powered potato launcher in it with a breach loader in the middle (secretly hidden). Then put foam on top and Powder in the shaft, close then fire. Unless theres a way to load and gas up the gun from the back like the real one. Just that middle stand I showed in the picture is what Im gonna have problems with. Also anyone have exact barrel and length Dimensions of the Flak 88? I know the Barrels 8.8cm Just the pvc measurements. Thanks for support.
Schutze
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Oct 11, 2006 19:52:12 GMT -5
I'd love you see you try and move a full scale 88 back and forth from a game. We're not trying to shoot down your ideas, we just want you to realize that making an 88 is going to be almost impossible.
I thought potato cannon's were illegal? So having a giant potato cannon that looks like a Kraut AA gun might get you into trouble. It could also be extremly dangerous, what if that bag of flour manages to stay intact and lands right on someone's head?
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Post by 2ndranger on Oct 11, 2006 19:54:16 GMT -5
Then Ill do a Co2 one or a pneumatic.
Schutze
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Post by mauser98k on Oct 11, 2006 19:55:07 GMT -5
Well, he will just have to make sure to make anyone who knows about it openly "disappear".
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jaeger
Private 1st Class
Posts: 478
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Post by jaeger on Oct 11, 2006 20:10:13 GMT -5
I still think that Schutze's idea is a good one. The bag of flower thing would work too. When I say bag of flower, I mean a lunch/paper bag with some flower in it. Not an entire bag of flower. This would be too light to actually hurt anyone. Plus it would be lunged through the air as opposed to directly fired at someone. After all, what is a bit of flower when we have airsoft bbs flying into our eyes/faces?
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Post by 2ndranger on Oct 11, 2006 20:28:28 GMT -5
Yeah Really I just need to know Co2, combustion, Air.
Schutze
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Post by spitfire740 on Oct 11, 2006 21:03:56 GMT -5
I like the flower idea, and have it explode above their heads when hitting trees and such. Or maybe we can luanch yellow smoke granades or somthing and pretend it to be mustard gas?? Just some thoughts I hope you have success with your flak, it is a very good idea. I will help you with whatever you may need. Also, just another suggestion, that part you cirlced, just looks like a big flower pot upside down. If all you are using it for is to stand the 88 on, then just a bin or somthing like that painted could be pretty authentic.
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Post by mauser98k on Oct 11, 2006 21:09:49 GMT -5
lol spitfire mustard gas was non-exisistant in ww2! And if you think about it, a flower pot will probably not be able to support all that weight, and then it would also be very fragile.
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Post by spitfire740 on Oct 11, 2006 21:19:58 GMT -5
Actually, there were a couple of chemical corps, at least on the axis side. I remember hearing stories of italian chemical regiments testing some type of poisonous gas on Yugoslavia, and Greece. I don't know what type of gas was used, but it could be a possibility
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Post by 2ndranger on Oct 11, 2006 21:26:13 GMT -5
And mauser He said flower as in baking flower not flower pots. Yeah I think Im just going to make it for effect not actual use just when we are beginning to be pushed back we jump on the flaks and start firing at em.
SChutze
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Post by spitfire740 on Oct 11, 2006 21:28:44 GMT -5
No we're tlaking about the stand that the 88 goes on, not what it shoots. That's what the flower pot could substitute. Theres just a bit of miscommunication here
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Post by 2ndranger on Oct 11, 2006 21:33:09 GMT -5
Ah then I take that back mauser, A flower pot? HMM maybe if I got one big plastic one and some how reinforced it? Naww hmm though that was good.
Schutze
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jaeger
Private 1st Class
Posts: 478
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Post by jaeger on Oct 11, 2006 21:43:05 GMT -5
I think it all depends on how heavy you think the gun will be. You could use an upside down trash can (even a metal one). However, I don't know if this will be sturdy enough. If not, then it could always be reinforced from the inside with wood, etc. You were also asking about CO2, combustion or air. By air, do you mean spring operated? Also, if you are planning on using pvc piping, then combustion may not be the best option. Not sure...
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Post by 2ndranger on Oct 11, 2006 21:58:43 GMT -5
By air I mean Like a automatic bike pump, attatched and you fill a tank with air and open the ball valve super quickly. Hold on a spark of genius just ignited or I got gas, either way I got a good Idea. This'll work, For the next few days you will see very little of me on the forums for I will be creating. I will be online though.
Schutze
PS thanks Jaeger, spitfire, russian for your help
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jaeger
Private 1st Class
Posts: 478
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Post by jaeger on Oct 11, 2006 22:00:56 GMT -5
Ok, just let us know periodically what you are up to and try not to blow yourself up :-p!!!
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Post by 2ndranger on Oct 11, 2006 22:02:40 GMT -5
I have a expierience with pneumatic cannons, Ive made my share, and blown up a couple things but thats off subject,lol, thanks I will ask for help as I move along. Thanks all!
Schutze
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Post by Jager.Drü on Oct 11, 2006 23:46:13 GMT -5
What about a big clay flower pot, painted feld grau of course.
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Post by 2ndranger on Oct 12, 2006 17:58:36 GMT -5
The flowerpot wouldnt hold But Ill figure something out, But I still need to figure out someway to get a shell firing mechanism, I am going with a air cannon and Im trying to figure a way to shoot through shells and to eject them after I open rear hatch. Any Ideas?
Schutze
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 12, 2006 20:32:20 GMT -5
I am amazed that with all the complexities of the 88 in the photo your concern was the how to make the base. Yikes, with the exception of the barrel, that looked like the easiest part. I again urge you to consider the size involved. Where are you going to store this thing when not in use and how are you going to take it apart for transport? Can you haul it in one load? How practical will it be to get to your events along with your friends and regular gear?
As for firing be concious of the fact that anything that can launch a shell the size and weight of what you are talking about for any kind of reasonable range is going to have to be quite powerful. Wether it's a foam rocket a bag of flour or a couple, of taped together dixie cups filled with who knows what. Talc and/or BBs? Your source of power will have to be pretty substantial. Potatoe guns work if the expansion chamber is the right size, the round is snug and the combustion method is well thought out. Hair spray is an excellent combustant as is propane and butane. My feeling is unless you really know what you're doing someone is going to get seriously hurt. For actual puro charges like a potatoe gun you'll need something besides ABS or PVC piping!The pneumatic concept with a shrader valve filled with a tire pump is sound provided your materials are the proper pressure rating and your design is sound. Your rate of fire will be bad however unless you build the devices as a seperate precharged round that is inserted into the breech area of your gun and you build several of them. leaks are hard to avoid however for rounds that set around unused for a while.
Your best bet is a CO2 adapter, expansion chamber and large ball valve using pressure rated PVC pipe as your inner barrel. I like what you're intending to do but want you concious of the expense, difficulty, impracticality and intrinsic potential danger of the undertaking.
A bag of flour on it's own incidently won't seal adequately in the barrle to create the prssure and resistance you need. You need range at least double that of an airsoft weapon in order to have the kind of stand off effect you're seeking.
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Post by 2ndranger on Oct 12, 2006 20:40:07 GMT -5
Thank you for your concern, As far as storage and transportation not a problem, and as for saftey It will shoot just blank rounds and nerf footballs with streamer attatched to them if it lands 10ft er so then your dead. I just need to figure out how those sprinkler valves work and how much they are, cause someone said they have enough power to fill a huge tank. Thanks again 2ndbat for your concern but Im positive I can make this work.
Schutze
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Post by mauser98k on Oct 13, 2006 0:18:52 GMT -5
Thank you for your concern, As far as storage and transportation not a problem, and as for saftey It will shoot just blank rounds and nerf footballs with streamer attatched to them if it lands 10ft er so then your dead. I just need to figure out how those sprinkler valves work and how much they are, cause someone said they have enough power to fill a huge tank. Thanks again 2ndbat for your concern but Im positive I can make this work. Schutze That is a very neat idea, but how would you go by combining the two, blank firing rounds, and a nerf ball?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 13, 2006 2:28:21 GMT -5
I'm assuming Schutz is suggesting that sometimes it would just shoot Talc powder to simulate a firing and other times a nerf rocket. Just to be clear I'm thinking a mechanical ball valve not electric sprinkler valve. I don't think (quite sure in fact) the sprinkler valves will accomodate the kind of pressure you'll need to launch with any significant power. All of these items have pressure ratings. You need to confer with someone who can be sure the items you're using are sufficiently rated to withstand the pressure you're using over many many discharges. PVC and ABS are all rated for different pressures and over time stress can cause them to weaken. All of this can be extremely significant. The same is true of the valves and couplings you use. Even once you've got it all dialed in and even when you're using a soft NERF rocket there is some danger to be aware of. My sons LAWS and Recoiless rifles and mortars fire the NERF rockets 130 yards and more. They are fine when fired at vehicles or lobbed at people where they come down on them. We use the howler nerfs that make a cool whistling sound as they fly but are now unfortunately quite hard to find. We use a 20 foot kill ratio. (It's somewhat approximate as most people have no idea how far 20 feet is and often ignore everything but a near miss.)
The point is this. Even with a soft NERF rocket the power of these things have to be respected. Tyler sold one to a numb nuts who proudly told him about his initial experience with the Launcher.
"I got the LAW today and couldn't wait to fire it. I stuffed a Nerf down in the tube and screwed in the CO2. I waited a few minutes like you said so the CO2 could fill the expansion chamber and warm up a bit, I carefully aimed the launcher so it wouldn't hit one of the walls in my apartment as I was afraid it might damage the plaster board. Instead I aimed for the wood door that leads to my mud room. Whooosh! From about 15 feet away it stuck right into the two panel hollow wood door. Yikes!!!!! I'm going to have to be careful not to shoot anyone close up." "My cat was not amused."
When I saw his note I couldn't believe an adult would be that stupid as to shoot it indoors. These things are quite powerful. When you shoot it straight up the rocket goes so high you literally lose sight of it.
A less powerful alternative and one that actualy works quite well is to take a tube and squeeze a mosscart shell into the back with a Nerf rocket up front. You can build several of them and have them as ready shells to slide into your "gun tube" or bazooka. The mosscart shell can provide decent power and will fire the round about 150 to 175 feet. They of course can be powered by greengas/ propane. obviously they can fire TALC chgarges as a blank or you can fill them with BBs and use them as a flechete round.
These devices are very cool and alot of fun but as you can see can be QUITE DANGEROUS. Be sure you know what you're doing or have help building them. My son built his first ones when he was 14 years old and if I knew the potential dangers I probably wouldn't have let him. he did all the research and studied the pressures involved and cross referenced all the rating. He for instance knows the presure rating (PSI) for a 12 gram CO2 cartridge and while I don't recall the amount it was ALOT!!!!!
He's a senior engineering student in Arizona State now.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 13, 2006 5:53:36 GMT -5
12grams are roughly sitting at 800psi by the time you use an expansion chamber it drops it down quite a bit. Still be very careful and do your homework when constructing one of these things. I have seen adults do stupid things with these like try and run 800psi Un regulated and with little to no expansion chamber. It made for a long night at the emergency room for him and a Darwin Award for him in my book If you are using a bicycle pump and working at around 120-150 PSI it will not be as dangerous. your sprinkler valves at least the ones that I have seen will not work over 140 PSI max. Ball valves can work up to 600PSI I believe.
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Post by 2ndranger on Oct 13, 2006 16:02:41 GMT -5
If you notice the tank on top of the flak 88s main barrel for my gun that will be the air tank jus I need a automatic bike pump, if someone can bring one to the event or could maybe donate one thatd be great right now im just workin the bugs out of the shell plans, still tryin to make it fire a nerf football with a streamer attached and a "Blank Flour round". Hopefully it can eject them as well but Ill play it by ear.
Schutze
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 13, 2006 18:22:46 GMT -5
I give up. Based on the things you just said, you're clueless. Dan and I have built similar devices and quite honestly I for one am fearful of your safety. I am not going to advise you further other then to suggest you stop what you're doing now and not proceed further with your plans unless you intend to make a visual prop only.
Maybe we should start a thread on props we'd like to build so the "Show us your props" thread can focus on things that are in fact built and functioning. I say that cause I'm definitely interested in other existing props and I personally am less interested in intentions which of course can be quite interesting as well.
Schultz you have no idea the scope and magnitude of what you're considering so you should stop now. Incidently your avatar looks great!
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Oct 13, 2006 19:23:20 GMT -5
Let's put it this way, If this thing you plan to make blows up you will either
a)Blow off your arms and/or legs b)Get blinded by shrapnel c)Die
If any of those 3 things happens you will NEVER be able to play airsoft again. So is it really worth it?
Hey where are those pictures of that Pak gun you supposedly made?
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 13, 2006 19:43:35 GMT -5
you forgot option D.....FUBAR others playing in the general area....Bad press for our fledling niche I would say guys. You sound like a nice guy Schutze but honestly I have to agree you don't seem to know what you are doing and I worry you are going to hurt yourself or yourself and a few others.
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