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Post by CharleyNovember on Feb 14, 2008 19:44:15 GMT -5
I can deal with 350 and below and low caps for subs but I am hoping I didn't just buy a Thompson I am going to have to turn the hop off to play with at JTD.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 14, 2008 20:01:49 GMT -5
No worries I'm talking out of long range hopes and aspirations not likely to be implemented anytime soon. Often times we'll start such things as a nice to have request and see how compliance an actual gameplay work out and if it becomes a fairly universally agreed upon positive it eventually becomes a gameplay requirement. We did that with semi auto and low caps and later ammo restrictions and over time they became part of the rule set.
All thus far have proven to be very well recieved and really add to the events. Just out curiousity can you appreciate the reasoning behind my thoughts on Submachine guns? A Thompson had a consistently lethal range of 100 meters where a 30 Cal would penetrate a 12 inch tree at 200 meters so it seems reasonable that pistol ammunition in a small high rate of fire weapon ought to have a down side. Obviously at this point in WW2 airsoft getting draconian about weapon requirements other then safety restrictions is far from reality. Having a high percentage of period correct weapons is our first goal.
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Post by phantom12321 on Feb 14, 2008 22:39:38 GMT -5
crank it up to 800! lol. Or adapt a metal bb gun. that should really raise the incentive for not getting hit.
Of course I'm just kidding, but I have seen this discussion played out several times and it usually ends the same way, with no real resolution.
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Post by Garrick Udet on Feb 26, 2008 14:21:18 GMT -5
One thing that we've done for the April 12th Ostfront event is to develop class rules which will give riflemen using single shot rifles the advantage of an extra respawn in each scenario. We toyed with the idea of also making the riflemen the only class that could use grenades, somewhat beefing them up for short range combat. But the fact that Russian (and German) SMG Gunners also used grenades extensively hurt the historical accuracy aspect. Our current class rules - which will probably be accurate for at least the first skirmish are located here: www.ostfrontairsoft.com/class.shtml
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Post by Jager.Drü on Feb 26, 2008 18:18:31 GMT -5
One thing that we've done for the April 12th Ostfront event is to develop class rules which will give riflemen using single shot rifles the advantage of an extra respawn in each scenario. We toyed with the idea of also making the riflemen the only class that could use grenades, somewhat beefing them up for short range combat. But the fact that Russian (and German) SMG Gunners also used grenades extensively hurt the historical accuracy aspect. Our current class rules - which will probably be accurate for at least the first skirmish are located here: www.ostfrontairsoft.com/class.shtmlSounds like DoD to me. The classes thing. How would an FJ fit into your rules? As they could be issued with an MP40 or Kar98, they all carried sidearms and gernades. And FJs fought on the Ost Front.
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gryphon
Master sergeant
shchi e kasha, pisha nasha.
Posts: 250
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Post by gryphon on Feb 26, 2008 22:55:36 GMT -5
The Class Rules are kind of a work in progress. We'll be trying them out for the first time on April 12. The basic idea is to provide a baseline structure for respawn and play balance. If we need to make small specific mods for particular special troops/situations (like letting the FJs carry their usual sidearms, or having a Soviet Partisan carry nothing but a concealed grenade as part of a particular scenario, or whatever,) I imagine we'll just playtest the mod and see how it works out.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Feb 27, 2008 1:22:58 GMT -5
The "mod" lol. I can see how it works and why you would want it. At Long Winter, there were tons of Thompsons, now if I had my way. If someone has a thompson and has only highcaps they should only shoot on semi. I like your idea as it gives people a "reason" to be a rifleman. You should have a longer range and more accurate of fire. But we both know in airsoft that isn't the case. Personally I think SMG weapons should have the hopup turned way down or even off.
BTW cool website.
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ersatzjack2
Private 1st Class
"We can still win this thing, once the secret weapons arrive."
Posts: 612
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Post by ersatzjack2 on Feb 27, 2008 1:59:16 GMT -5
The "mod" lol. I can see how it works and why you would want it. At Long Winter, there were tons of Thompsons, now if I had my way. If someone has a thompson and has only highcaps they should only shoot on semi. I like your idea as it gives people a "reason" to be a rifleman. You should have a longer range and more accurate of fire. But we both know in airsoft that isn't the case. Personally I think SMG weapons should have the hopup turned way down or even off. BTW cool website. Thanks for the comments on the site. Several guys put a lot of work into it and it will get better still when we post the pics and video we have planned. Udo, Gryphon, Alban, Erixon, and Ersatzjack did a lot of work on it. On the last post of page one of this thread 2nd Batt made some good points when talking about hicaps, rifles and field rules. The Thompsons are great guns and the allies need that firepower but the high caps need to be balanced. These rules are an attempt to even the playing field. Sure, take a Thompson with a hicap but you're a fire support person with one life for the skirmish. A guy with a K98 has three. We think it evens things out. SMG gunners that have to constantly switch mags are in the middle with two lives. Protect the fire support guys. Anyways, Garrick (n4n00k on these boards) and Udo put some thought into these rules and we think they are worth a try.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Feb 27, 2008 2:06:42 GMT -5
How do you do the respaws? We do it by "medic" rules. You carry your alloted medic bands and the medic comes and ties it to you and you are heel'd. The bands come in folded paper boxes and have what your wound is printed on the inside. I would like to see groups field correct squads/gruppes. But I know with the limit of airsoft weapons this cannot be, for now.
I would like to hear how this system plays out. I know sometimes people get confused on what role they are ie Modern weapons shooting on full auto things like that.
You guys also run games differently, but I think with they way you run your games your system will fit right in.
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gryphon
Master sergeant
shchi e kasha, pisha nasha.
Posts: 250
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Post by gryphon on Feb 27, 2008 9:24:44 GMT -5
While we discussed it, the group was generally opposed to a medic-based respawn system. Our respawn is location-based - think of respawns as more like freshly-arrived reinforcements coming up to the rallying point from the rear, rather than patched-up grunts flung back into the fray. The main goal of the whole Class Rules system is to offset SMGs with additional respawns for rifles, to create a more historically accurate ratio of weaponry per skirmish. A location-based respawn should serve this desired outcome better than a medic-based respawn, as the rifles could choose to reinsert in waves this way.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Feb 27, 2008 11:18:04 GMT -5
I see. Then yes your system will be perfect for it. We do a medic respawn and then when you run out of band you go back to the CCP and get respawned, thats when you become a "fresh" soldier. Do you guys use OC or a type or ref? We use OC Observer Controlers, they are embeded players and once hit, become like a traffic controler.
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ersatzjack2
Private 1st Class
"We can still win this thing, once the secret weapons arrive."
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Post by ersatzjack2 on Feb 27, 2008 12:32:16 GMT -5
Jager.Dru, No ref's and no OC's. In my limited WW2 airsoft time I've had good experiences with location respawn rules and not so good with medic rules. Medic rules get abused in the heat of battle and can detract from a skirmish. At least, that has been my experience. There may be games where medic rules worked great. I just haven't been in them. In NY and in WI we simply go with the respawns and haven't ever had a problem. I don't know of anybody cheating with this system. Oh yeah, once we allowed respawns in place but that got confusing and didn't work. It's imperative that you have to go to a respawn point and then reinsert.
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Post by Garrick Udet on Feb 27, 2008 14:06:24 GMT -5
Wow this sniper system thread really got steered to discussion of the MOA (Midwest Ostfront Airsoft for those who might have missed it) class system, not that it was intentional To attempt to steer this back on track, or not I guess, one idea that Gryphon and I were tossing around on the MOA forum was to allow the creation of a 'Sniper' class by allowing a rifleman to carry a sidearm at the expense of 1 respawn. He seemed to like it, but we've already put a moratorium on additional edits and tweaks to the classes until after we at least try it out in April. You can guarantee that the pros/cons of the classes will be ruthlessly dissected in our AARs of the April event! I may just start a topic thread to toss around ideas for the class based system after the April event. Cheers! ;D
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