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Post by bataanscout on Feb 10, 2006 22:04:15 GMT -5
I feel so stupid... that's what it is. I load the gas without doing that. Thanks! Cost me one can of HFC 134a...
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Post by Guinness on Feb 10, 2006 23:19:34 GMT -5
No need to feel sheepish, we all have been there!
We are all here to help, now you have a tip you can pass along!
-G
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Post by bataanscout on Feb 14, 2006 8:38:55 GMT -5
Thanks Guinness, I appreciate the help. Now while I'm waiting for my new shipment of 134 gas ( ordered 4 cans this time), which parts/spots do I need to make sure are lubed properly? Thanks.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 14, 2006 18:09:05 GMT -5
Lubruicate with pure silocon oil all moving parts and work the bolt alot prior to firing so the finish wears a bit which will greatly help the action. Then use blue loctite cement to firmly fasten all the hex screws and potential bolts that might work lose. Use blue loctite which will hold fine but can be removed if needed. I found my Garand worked significantly better and smoother after 3oo rounds were fired through it and now works exceptionally well.
You can generally expect about 3 to five complete clips on a single charge of gas depending on how aggressively you squeaze off your shots. If you space and pace your shotws you get more rounds. Things get cold in a hurry if you rapid fire super agressively. I'm not a fan of external tanks but would be interested in a CO2 cartridge adapter/ regulator if one become available and could fit in the inner workings of the gun itself.
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Post by bataanscout on Feb 16, 2006 23:17:35 GMT -5
Any of you guys have a problem with the clip not ejecting? A couple of people posted this problem at Arnie's but nobody answered with a solution. Thanks.
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Post by Kyle on Feb 17, 2006 21:12:38 GMT -5
bataanscout: I too have problems with that. It ejects sometimes when you pull the bolt back all the way, but never when firing.
Might be something to do with the spring or the screw in part 45 (the bolt piece itself)
I made some changes, but I need to hookup the co2 rig again and test it. I'll post results if any.
It also might be something to do with those silver pieces that lock the bolt on the left side of the gun (visible when the stock is removed).
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 18, 2006 1:25:01 GMT -5
I had a couple clips that never worked as smoothly or consistently as they should. Like yours they didn't always eject properly or they were hard to load as they wouldn't click into place when loading. I tried other clips without any modification to the gun itself or the way I was operating it and the gun worked flawlessly. This leads me to believe the problem is in your clip. Unfortunately I haven't isolate the problematic clips from the good ones so I could figure out what is askew. When I sort it all out I'll let everyone know.
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Post by johnyopportunity on Feb 18, 2006 9:16:42 GMT -5
Maybe metal clips will do the thing! www.mojji.com/en/fax/fax.htm about the 12th item down. Should be coming out at the end of the mouth. I did post this some where else but you may not have seen it.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 18, 2006 10:42:46 GMT -5
Interesting find. I'm anxious to find someone provide a review on them.
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Post by bataanscout on Feb 19, 2006 19:02:06 GMT -5
I'll probably get a few of those magnesium clips just for the "ping" effect. However it doesn't seem that the clip is the problem when they don't eject. It started happening when I screwed around with the mechanism that locks the bolt (the silver plates/mechanism on the left side of the receiver).
I noticed that I can't make the screws there too tight or the moving parts don't move as well even with lube. I had a problem getting the bolt to lock until I loosened some things up. My clips used to automatically eject. I may have upset a certain balance in the mechanism by tightening some of the screws or disassembling the locking mechanism.
I was able to fix the bolt locking but not the automatic ejecting. In a way it's convenient for the clips not to eject until you manually do so, just so they don't get lost in the middle of a skirmish. However it still takes away a certain level of satisfaction. I'll keep troubleshooting and post what I find out.
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Post by Kyle on Feb 20, 2006 3:32:22 GMT -5
bataanscout: Those were my exact thoughts, I had taken those completely off, and they seemed a bit tight. I wonder if it has something to do with that metal "spring" piece that pushes part of it down.
Also, the hook part (on the far right) is slightly deformed on the corners on mine, I'll take some pics and try messing with the tension on those.
Also, my bolt seems to want to jump out of its track very often now that I re-put that spring in there (the spring that runs along the rod and keeps the bolt from jiggling). I have a new part 45 on the way sometime, but any ideas on that issue?
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Post by HellRazor on Feb 20, 2006 16:52:32 GMT -5
I was experincing the same problem last nigth with mine, and all it took was tighting the screw on the operating rod on the right side, even with Locktite, it managed to wiggle itself free after about 500 rounds, and a good 300-400 dry fire rounds too. Now 45 seems to be fine and hasn't jumped off track at all.
I too am looking forward to the magnisim clips, can't wait to see those. I HOPE they ping...but if its doesn't, its all good.
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Post by CPL. Mills 2nd Rangers on Feb 20, 2006 22:49:12 GMT -5
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Post by Kyle on Feb 21, 2006 17:23:18 GMT -5
my new part 45 came today from WGC, a few things I noticed:
On my old one, the long screw that holds everything together doesnt actually screw in to anything until it is so far in that the "back" of the screw clears the hole it is supposed to be in in the rear.
Also, somehow that spring popped loose on mine again. Probably something to do with the really loose long screw.
On the new one, there is a little silver clip at the rear of the long screw, on the inside. On mine, there is a groove where one looks like it would go, but it isnt there. (Hopefully it didnt get lodged somewhere else in the workings of the gun, couldn't have, I've had the whole thing apart before.
It appears that the new part will require some breaking in, as the action is not as smooth as last time, even with plenty of lubricant.
In regards to the clip ejector mechanism: I had a small little burr, or something, on the part of the black lever piece that the silver part slides under to eject the clip, small chance that might have been causing problems. I also noticed it takes a LOT of force to make the silver piece slip under. I loosened the screw that holds that flat spring in, having it put less tension on the silver part, and also loosened the screw on the right of the outer silver part (that holds everything on the side.) It appears to move about a bit more freely now. I think that explains why it wouldn't eject when firing, but if I pulled the bolt back HARD, it would (still not 100% of the time.)
Does anyone know what that flat spring piece does? And just to clarify, it IS supposed to be going straight up towards the top of the gun, pushing down on the silver part, right? It can pivot in place, and reach a few other things too.
I will update this post in a while after I do some test firing.
UPDATE: Well, the gun cycles fine, appears it just needed to cycle a bit to get settled in, and is firing much like it was before. However, still no ejecting clips. But my bolt is no longer jumping the tracks now!
Perhaps if someone could post a picture of what their clip ejection mechanism looks like, it might give me a better idea of how that one flat spring is supposed to interface with the rest of it.
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Post by bataanscout on Feb 22, 2006 22:32:52 GMT -5
I think I know how the ejection mechanism works now. Okay the basics...
* The button on the left side of the receiver controls the latch that holds the clip in place and prevents it from popping up.
* The angled rod at the bottom (belonging to the trigger group) is what spits the clip out.
Now for the clip to eject, the latch on the side needs to get disengaged. This happens when the elongated panel in the locking mechanism (the one that has the hole) is pulled back far enough that it mechanically retracts the latch.
This is pulled back far enough when the "hook" that hooks the bolt to keep it open is pushed from behind by the sliding bolt blowing back.
It is only pushed from behind by the bolt when it snaps up because the protrusion from an empty clip bumps the silver arm forward (the arm that you push to hold the bolt open).
It's hard to imagine all these that I'm describing but basically the locking mechanism needs to pop up and be caught and pushed from behind by the recoiling bolt. This is why sometimes if you pull the bolt far back enough, the clip ejects.
I still haven't fixed the problem but I think the key is to make the silver arm (the one that you push to lock the bolt open) loose enough that it can get nudged forward by clip protrusion as it rises when the last BB is fired.
I'll see if I can post some pics for illustration sometime.
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Post by Kyle on Feb 22, 2006 23:07:04 GMT -5
yep, thats exactly how it works. The problem does seem to be some sort of friction preventing the force of the blowback from knocking the lever back hard enough to slip under the black part. I've heavily lubricated it, and nothing seems to have changed. I might try filing a few things. I just took some pics, I'll edit this post with them in a few. www.northernat.com/images/m1g/eject1_crop.jpgThis picture shows the system at rest. Can anyone verify that the black flat spring on the right is where it is supposed to be? And yes, there is a LOT of lube on the parts in the pic, I've cleaned it up a bit now. www.northernat.com/images/m1g/eject2_crop.jpgThis shows what happens when the clip is pushing up with the slanted follower onto the silver piece visible directly infront of the clip. It pushes the arm up, and as the bolt blows back, it catches it. Also note that the upper left corner of my arm has a deformity, that is not lubricant. I am slightly curious if this causes any problems, but it seems to go up OK on its own, the problem lies in the next step... www.northernat.com/images/m1g/eject3_crop.jpgThe bolt continues backward, pushing the arm farther inward, causing the piece on the bottom (that the flat spring is touching on) to slip under the clip retainer, making the clip eject from the spring in the trigger area. You can see the deformity on the arm head (left side, top) I mentioned a little better in this picture. www.northernat.com/images/m1g/eject4_crop.jpgThen the return spring brings it foward a bit more, so that the clip retainer goes back into the receiver (after the clip has been ejected)... awaiting insertion of a new clip. Also, in regards to PFC. Mills' post about the action closing automatically, I don't see how this is supposed to happen. One thing I did notice that just SLIGHTLY pulling the bolt rear causes the arm to return back down, and I mean very very slightly. When reloading, I usually just touch the tip of part45 with my thumb and it closes. The more I look at it, the more that arm part looks severly deformed, anyone else have pics? I'm going to go take it out and get some good detail pics of it clean of all lube. Another edit: That small flat spring that pushes down allows the bolt to lock back whenever the clip does eject. Looks like it puts enough drag on the part as it returns so that the arm doesnt immediately swing down. (I tried it without the spring, and that's what happened.)
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Post by CPL. Mills 2nd Rangers on Feb 23, 2006 7:40:45 GMT -5
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Post by Kyle on Feb 23, 2006 16:23:30 GMT -5
Mills: If you use your finger to stop the arm from coming down, and continue pulling the bolt back so that it disengages the clip retainer, how hard is that to do? On mine, it seems to have quite a bit of resistance. www.northernat.com/images/m1g/friction1_crop.jpgCheck out how this part is bent. Is this normal? It it supposed to be bent that much? This appears to cause additional friction once it goes into this area: www.northernat.com/images/m1g/friction2_crop.jpgYou can see where the bent-downward hook has scraped on the side of the wall there. This area has some noticable friction. I know from removing the flat spring earlier that there needs to be some delay in the swinging arm for the bolt to lock open, but im not sure what could go awry if i filed some of this or bent that hook straight again, and it would be a pain to fix. Can anyone verify that the hook is supposed to be bent like that, and that it puts enough friction down to rub the finish off of the wall? Edit: And before someone points it out, yes I realize I am missing a screw (visible right above the worn down area in picture 2). When I got it, the head on the screw was all mangled, managed to get it out and back in a few times by pushing in with a small flat-headed driver (it is SUPPOSED to be a hex), but didn't want to get it stuck in there, so I left it out. I need to try to find a replacement screw...
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Post by bataanscout on Feb 25, 2006 18:24:41 GMT -5
I used a mild green gas (abbey) on it today and the clip ejected! It blew the bolt back far enough to disengage the latch that keeps the clip down.
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Post by HellRazor on Feb 26, 2006 2:10:31 GMT -5
I use Green Gas in my all the time, and I've yet to have a problem....maybe thats all ya need to do!
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Post by Kyle on Feb 26, 2006 15:45:49 GMT -5
Tried it on 134a and green gas in the past, and it demonstrated the same problem.
Now I'm running it on CO2, right around 60PSI or so, the action is nice and crisp, but it still doesnt eject the clip (in the past few posts, It's been on CO2)
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Post by HellRazor on Feb 26, 2006 16:24:37 GMT -5
Ahhh, got ya. How do you have your system hooked up on CO2, thats something I'm wanting to get done here real soon.
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Post by Gordak on Feb 26, 2006 21:11:44 GMT -5
one of the first things we discovered was that the spring inside the clips, needs to be strong for the gun to eject them
if you put all 8 rounds in the stripper, its very likely the springs got worn out,
A good way to test this theory is to get a new stripper clip, load 4 bbs into it and test it.
-Gordak
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Post by Guinness on Feb 26, 2006 23:17:27 GMT -5
heh heh ....he said 'stripper' heh -G
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Post by Kyle on Feb 27, 2006 1:42:57 GMT -5
Hellrazor: The CO2 setup is eeee-say! That overfill valve in the front of the gas reservoir is a 1/8 inch straight (as opposed to tapered) connection. This is a VERY common size for the fittings needed. I'm using a Palmer's stabilizer with the 12g co2 cartridges, and a short (i think 7 or 8 inch) silver braided hose with 1/8in fittings on either end (no particular reason for braided, just the only thing I could find the day before a skirmish in the time I had.) I want to eventually rig up a quick disconnect, as I have to undo the fittings every time I want to separate the receiver/upper stock from the lower stock of the gun. I'd also like to run to a larger, HPA tank instead of small co2 carts, as I only get about 5 clips per cart. I will edit this post with pics in a few, I need to find the ones I took. EDIT: http://spare/images/m1g/m1co2_4_web.jpgThis is where the line goes into the gas reservoir. There are only 2 modifications required: 1: You have to create an exit for the gas hose. I chose mine a few inches foward of where the connection is. This required me to bore out a small trough for the hose to go in (since there is no room in the stock.) Then I exited at a 45 degree angle. 2: The fitting on the gun-end has a hex part around it used for a wrench. Your experience may vary, but when mine was tightened all the way, one of the points of the hex was causing drag on the black collar a few inches to the left of the hose in this pic (you can see a small silver scrape on the black part just beneath the hose, this is from the drag.) It was enough to cause the action to get stuck back every time it was cycled. I unscrewed it, filed off the point on the hex (now it only has 5 points) and screwed it back in exactly how it came out, so that area was in the same position as before. (That is why I made the guide marks there, I'm not sure, but I was thinking that a screw can 'start' in more than one place, ending up in more than one place, maybe I'm mistaken, I have never found out either way.) After that I unscrewed it again, put blue loctite on either end of the hose fittings (I didn't have any teflon tape and there is no o-ring or anything on either end.) and went to town. The result is this: http://spare/images/m1g/m1co2_1_web.jpgI can semi-quickly change the CO2 cartridge out: http://spare/images/m1g/m1co2_2_web.jpgThe only problem with this mod is that the sling swivel has to be removed (temporarily). I suppose I could run a sling through the frontmost swivel part, but the small gap in there might cause the sling to slip out (I've just been using some OD webbing for all my stuff, have some actual proper slings on the way.) http://spare/images/m1g/m1co2_3_web.jpgThis is where the exit for the line is. You can see the hole I drilled out. In the 7 or 8 oclock position you can see where the drill slipped, and I used a sharpie to darken it again, looks ok-ish, but I'd like to patch it up a bit better later on. This is just temporary, until I can get together a decent HPA rig (quick detach right by the exit there in the last pic, and probably conceal the hose along a sling until it gets close to my body, put the tank in a bag of some sorts.)
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Post by HellRazor on Feb 27, 2006 1:45:43 GMT -5
Got ya, so you did the same as our own JB, only he already has the quick disconect, and uses 12oz bottles hidden in the mussette bag. I just need to get ahold of the Palmer *which is a bloody $100!!*, the hoses and plumbing, and I'll be good to go.
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Post by garandowns on Mar 9, 2006 0:02:24 GMT -5
i have a questing, what codec do u have, cuz it says it cant download the codec.
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Post by HellRazor on Mar 13, 2006 20:45:31 GMT -5
Just as an FYI, something I've found is that you can actaully over lube the Garand, it causes as many problems being OVER lubed, as it does being under.
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Post by Kyle on Mar 14, 2006 2:11:52 GMT -5
A question for anyone that has skirmished with the M1, whats the trick with the hopup?
If I turn it completely off, the BB will take a sharp arc down after a very short distance.
It seems that when i turn it on, it just goes slightly farther, but still sharply arcs down, instead of the "sailing" effect my AEGs exhibit. (in the m1, the bb is travelling fast the entire time, until it hits the ground)
I will try cleaning and re-lubing the hopup area sometime soon... But if anyone knows of any nuances to look out for, that would be nice to know.
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Post by HellRazor on Mar 20, 2006 14:47:04 GMT -5
my hop up is by far BETTER than any AEG I've ever seen....
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