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Post by mauser98k on Jan 3, 2006 15:12:50 GMT -5
Hi ya'll, if I were to buy a tokyo marui m14 would someone convert it to an m1 aeg. You could keep all the unneeded m14 parts and I could give ya some cash?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 3, 2006 18:06:37 GMT -5
I have to post this even if it bursts some bubbles of enthusiasm and desire. I have done 3 conversions of M-14s to Garands. I did two Airsoft Club Custom M-14s and am doing a Marui right now. It is a logical and fairly straight forward process. (See the thread on Garand AEG.) With that said it is still a ton of work (way more then I had imagined) and very time consuming and I'm still not 100% pleased with my magazines to clip modifications which are themselves a ton of work. The time needed for each conversion is about 40 to 50 hours. I'm probably down to 40 hours now cause I'm starting to get good at it. I really can't think of any left over parts from the M-14 that would have any market value whatsoever. (muzzle flash maybe) The cost of the Garand parts needed to make the conversion is fairly considerable. (Upper stock, front stock, gas resrvoir and sight with stock swivel, bayonet lug, and muzzle piece along with the gas reservoir screw.) Roughly $120.00 to 135.00 in parts. I guess what I'm saying is: I'm not interested in doing it for anyone cause I've been there and done that now and it's probably way more work then the market is likely to pay for. Factor the cost of the Marui M-14. ($340.00 delivered or more?) $28.00 a piece for spare low cap magazines (round it down to $100.00 and say you wanted 4) About $120.00 in Garand parts (needed for the visual change) $20.00 in misc supplies, Shipping the guns and parts back and forth, ($40.00) and then 50 hours of custom skilled labor. Even at $20.00 an hour it's $1,000.00 Add the parts you need and shipping and you're looking at a 1600.00 to 1700.00! My recommendation is be patient and wait for one of the factories to build one as a straight forward finished model. JAPAN or CHINA are you listening? ?? Even if it retailed for $500.00 it would be a bargain and they would sell a bunch of them. If it retailed for 350.00 they'd sell even more! I built mine cause I'm old and couldn't wait and was tired of seeing Thompsons and carbines!!!! Good luck. If anyone decides to do one yourself I wish you the best and am willing to help you with directions photos or whatever.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 16, 2006 18:49:35 GMT -5
I'm doing still another M-14 AEG to a garand. This time I'm going to try and use even more Garand parts including the actual wood main stock. I may end up regretting the attempt. If it works with out too much modification it may be the better and easier way to go then resin filling the original M-14 stock to the shape of a Garand which was a ton of work.
I'll keep you posted. This will put me at 3 Garand AEGs.
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Post by mauser98k on Jan 16, 2006 18:59:15 GMT -5
Pffff youre just trying to kill me
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 19, 2006 17:15:55 GMT -5
I've learned a great deal with each one I've done and once I finish this one (waiting on parts) I'll compile a nice report and instructional hints list for anyone wanting to do it. Each one has come out nicer then the first and gets easier.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 14, 2006 3:43:15 GMT -5
Now with 5 under my belt. If I could source large numbers of all the garand parts and get a sufficient price break a "do-it- yourself" kit with instructions might be possible. The plan would be to prefab the kits so modifying a Marui M-14 would be fairly straight forward. It would also be all wood except the lower stock with real steel Garand parts throughout. Perhaps a two hour modification for the kit buyer. What should that sell for? What would be reasonable?
I think there might be a limited market if it were kept below $350.00 but I simply don't know if that's practical or if there is a sufficient market. I'd have to set up a shop to build the attachment parts. Custom drilled and cut out actual Garand stocks could be sold as an additional option. Basically I'd acquire, accumulate and package the neccessary Garand parts and fabricate other adaptive parts that would make the assembly easy along with great photographic assembly instructions so virtually anyone could do it. Box comes in the mail to a Marui M-14 owner and 2 hours later you have your Garand.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 26, 2006 0:11:27 GMT -5
The Marui M-14 is not as easy to adapt to a Garand as the airsoft club but of course it is doable. The Garand stock has to be hollowed out to an extremely thin tolerance and needs reinforcement along the inside surfaces with either fiberglass or graphite walls. I haven't done either yet. Tons of work and highly delicate. The Greek Garand stocks seem to be thicker then the Springfield Walnut stocks. Especially in the neck through the handgrip where you need it to be.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 23, 2006 21:22:01 GMT -5
I've managed to ruin one perfectly good Garand stock trying to fit the AEG hardware from an M-14 inside and am struggling to do the second one. The barrel modification for the Marui is harder then the Airsoft Club guns as the assembly isn't dissamblable seperate parts as they appear. Hence more cutting and shaping.
A kit is possible using the M-14 lower stock assembly (slightly shortened by cutting it off right in front of the sling mount) which isn't perfect in appearance but does look pretty close. It still has the Garand upper wood guard in place of the M-14 plastic hand guard and the Garand front wooden handguard that gives the garand it's stubby front muzzle look. The double barrel front is accomodated with an actual garand front gas resrevoir assembly with garand site, bayonet stud, stacking swivel and muzzle tip. The M-14 barrel has to be lengthened about four inches. Machining a barrel with female threads to fit on the end is a bit tricky and time consuming. I fill in the extra stock holes on the M-14 with wood filler and stain the stock to match the actual Garand wood. With shortened magazines (Tough job) the end result looks pretty good. I'm hoping to at least do one with the actual Garand lower stock assembly hollowed out to accomodate the AEG and battery in the stock but only plan on doing it once (if I'm lucky)
Would still love to come up with a visually acceptable flush mounting clip that would hold perhaps 12 to 16 rounds, would fit in a Garand 10 pocket ammo belt and didn't take too much time to fabricate or expense to build. Right now that's my biggest challenge.
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silencer
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Post by silencer on Mar 23, 2006 21:28:58 GMT -5
Thats awesome 2nd bat! Thats all I can say. How expensive has it been? Did you remove the fully automatic part?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 24, 2006 19:37:28 GMT -5
For the Marui, semi auto is a select option and obviously the appropriate one. I fix them in the semi mode obviously. With the Airsoft Club they were only available in fully automatic but triggering them at semi is no problem. The Marui version I just finished came out spectacularly (If I do say myself) I could offer it as a $350.00 conversion kit which would take about 2 hours of labor for the owner of a Marui M-14 to convert. Everything would be included and assembly would only be slightly more involved then disassembling the Marui M-14 which is pretty straight forward. I've purchased five additional sets of Garand parts (130 to 180.00 in actual Garand parts) so I'm prepared (once they arrive) to build some more conversion kits. If they don't sell I'll simply build some more Garand AEGs and sell them as finished custom guns on Ebay. This variation uses the M-14 Marui lower stock as I have been informed it'll cost well over $1,000 to tool up a wood working shop to convert Garand stocks to accomodate the Marui parts. Those components will have to retail for $200 to 250.00 additional.
Until someone makes a Garand AEG this seems like a viable alternative that looks and functions very well. Still working on a magazine design that'll fit and function well. In games I use the full M-14 low cap magazines which clearly detract from the visual effect but way less so then a kid in a WW2 impression with an M-16 or AK!
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silencer
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Post by silencer on Mar 25, 2006 23:09:06 GMT -5
Have you thought about cutting away the magazine? Like, take part of it, slice it and slice it at the bottom then weld the two parts together and fix it up so it actually feeds? That would be so much harder than it sounds (well for me).
Also, couldn't you just get regular garand stocks and carve them out? Or is that the 1000 dollar part?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 27, 2006 1:15:35 GMT -5
I have in fact cut the center out of some low caps for both the airsoft club and Marui low caps. In order to visually eliminate the protruding magazine of the M-14. Unfortuantely this is A: Much much harder then it sounds as you have to cut very precisely at exactly the right points and carefully smooth out the inside seam using several layers of resin paste and great care in order to prevent the spring from catching as the BBs load. B: the oval feed routes for low caps is such that if you level out and remove the flat sections leaving only the oval shapes you still end up with a magazine that protrudes over an inch from the bottom of the gun. I'm now building them so they eliminate the existing feed tubes and use copper tubing that I carefully shape inside the magazine housing. They protrude about 1/4 inch which to me is acceptable. They only hold 14 to 16 rounds so from a practical perspective I have to make alot of them for each gun and they are very labor intense. I'm trying to figure out a simplified and less expensive process then using Marui low caps! The good news is they fit in the grand 10 pocket pouches!
As for the actual Garand stocks, that appears to be the route I'll take. The biggest expense is the set up programing charge for the CnC programmed router. About a grand. Once thats done I'll just have to buy a bunch of garand stocks. (Have you priced them lately?) and then pay to have each of them routed out so a M-14 AEG gear box, barrel and battery will fit. Even if I just eat the set up charge what do you suppose each of those modified garand stocks is going to cost? Any guesses? It's going to add a lot to the costs needless to say. I think most people would want the option of deciding how important the lower stock being actual wood is.
In the base kit form which I think looks pretty darn good you end up with a gun that has a great feel and shoots awesome the total cost is a Marui M-14 for roughly $400.00 and the kit for $350 shipped so the total cost is $750 to 800.00 for a mostly wood and real steel custom gun. This is sounding too much like a commercial and that isn't my intent!
I'll see how it goes with these first 10 kits. I thought it was going to have to be a whole lots more expensive, difficult or time consuming for a customer to do.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 27, 2006 4:22:47 GMT -5
Here are a couple pictures of the basic kit mounted on your Marui M-14 after 2 hours of assembly
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silencer
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Post by silencer on Mar 27, 2006 18:51:43 GMT -5
Wow! Looks extremely expensive! If I had 800 dollars I would get one off of you. I can't see the magazine protruding from those pictures, maybe you just dont have it in?
Have you tried custom making magazines? In two peices and with a short feed that holds only 8 rounds, hollow, and cheap to make. THen you just screw/glue the two peices together? That would be interesting. I think it would be best to not do cut down low caps.
I would guess actual garand stocks would cost 150? Maybe 200 but if you ordered 10, cut down stocks, from someone, they should give you a discount. What about plastic? Fake wood?
Anyways, very good job! I hope you make good business off of them so you could put together more kits and for more people. Don't forget to add in some profit time for yourself (even if its just a little you deserve it).
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Post by Reece on Mar 27, 2006 22:07:27 GMT -5
E-gunparts.com has "expertly refinished" walnut stocks for $75 and hardwood for $55. As for the mags have you thought of VSR-10 magazines. If you want i'll try to find a ruler and find the dimensions of mine.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 28, 2006 0:22:03 GMT -5
My son suggested the VSR mags as did Schmitty. The challenge of course is they will have to be alterred to fit right and made to look right as they fill the void. Probably just as much work and expense as alterring the actual mags. Maybe not. The exact measurements I'm looking at is a magazine that is: 3" long (front to rear) 1 1/8th inches wide at the rear tapered to 1" in the front. 1/1/2" tall at the rear tapered to 1 1/4" at the front. Naturally the feed nozzle has to slide in in the right location and the release nob in the back has to be the right size depth and height to finction right. (See why it's probably easier to use the existing housing until I get one tooled for manufacture?) One mag with every kit will go out so you have a model to copy and so you can operate it looking right. Obviously regular marui mags work as well.
As for the garand stocks E-gun and several other locations have them for around that price. Add shipping, all the metal hardware to the quote from E-Gun parts and the cost of tooling them out to accomodate the AEG mech box battery and different magazine well dimensions as well as a few minor tweaks to the trigger area and you can see how I'm figuring it'll be another $200.00 add-on to the kit cost. The deluxe version! Incidently with really no marketing at all I've already sold several base kits which is very encouraging and lots of positive interest. I also sold my original prototype. After the Carentan game I'll sell the other two protoypes which since they aren't standardized to my final design are redundant to me. I've got more parts packages on order!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 4, 2006 0:15:04 GMT -5
Here is a close up of a basic Marui conversion finished
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 4, 2006 0:17:00 GMT -5
Here's the receiver group again on the base gun. I think they come out pretty good
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 10, 2006 20:53:23 GMT -5
Note the Marui lower stock from the M-14 but treated to color and texture match the garand upper wood. Everything fits tight and snug. Additional details include filling the stock hole on the side and cutting away the selector switch (set on semi) as well as grinding the bolt release and M14 specific components on the receiver. All easy to do but not shown as I wanted to reflect the results from a 2 hour assembly time. The two pictures above are the $300.00 kit on the customers Marui M-14.
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Post by fallout11 on Apr 11, 2006 14:33:49 GMT -5
Really nice work on the Garands, 2nd Bat!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 16, 2006 20:39:50 GMT -5
Thanks. AEX is now carrying them as kits or finished guns and that should garner some additional exposure. I also listed my original prototype on Ebay and it'll be interesting to see how it does. I have one more prototype (no longer exactly what my product is since I've made significant changes to them since) This next one is going to be sold as a Garand M1C sniper variant with muzzle break, leather chin pad and scope and scope mount. I'm honestly not sure if this was a WW2 issue item. I know it was for Korea and certainly Vietnam.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 18, 2006 23:37:14 GMT -5
I tried to sell my remaining prototype gun on ebay. It got up to 680.00 and then EBAY yanked the listing!!!!!! I'm not sure why. The picture didn't show an orange barrel though I professed that it would have one just as I often have with other guns. I sold an M-60 last week with the same disclaimer and the pictures didn't reflect an orange barrel. It sold and cleared Ebay just fine!
Perhaps it's was the mention of the use of actual Garand components although they all sell individually on ebay and I stated that the gun couldn't be converted to fire real rounds. Naturally other then a boiler plate explaination "Auction item violates policy and restrictions on items that can be listed." To say I'm frustrated is an understatement. Perhaps I should be more emphatic with my disclaimer and take a photo with an orange barrel. I probably could just paint a spare Garand muzzle tip (they screw on and off with the gas reservoir screw!)
I would have sold it for the $680.00 even though it took way more effort to build then the current design and is in fact a more authentic replica as it is not in sync with the product as I now build them. I was hoping of course to get way more then that! It was listed with the one shortened magazine and three spare 60 round magazines that could be converted to the shortend ones if someone wanted to or not. It also had a leather sling. If anyones interested let me know other wise I'll attempt to relist.
It is an airsoft club gun which doesn't have the reputation of the Marui but for me has been an excellent gun. I've had several of them. This particular one has a level three upgrade and shoots at a chrono'd 378 with .25 gram so they hum on outta there real good. It's also got a TN barrel and even more actual garand parts then my current kit designs employ. The magazine also proturudes about an inch below the stock as compared to 1/4 inch for my Marui kits.
In some ways it's a far better replica and in some ways it's not as nice. It certainly is a shooter as it was capable of being upgraded and thus far Maruis upgrades are limited. That will of course change but for now there are only limited things you can do to the Marui M-14s.
I'd love for it to find a home in the WW2 airsoft community.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 9, 2006 14:21:18 GMT -5
Two gone and now just one of my prototypes left. The final one (complete gun) is listed on Ebay right now. If you're serious about wanting a finished fully assembled airsoft Garand this will probably be your most affordable opportunity. It's more fully finished out then the base kit with hundreds of hours applied to the effort and shoots harder then the stock Marui M-14 See this last one at: cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7240448879&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1As I mentioned before I hope this replica stays in the WW2 airsoft community. It will probably sell for less then the price of a Marui M-14 and my kit combined even though it is fully assembled.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 14, 2006 18:24:31 GMT -5
I have six finished guns which I built specifically for the upcoming WW2 event here in the NW that I am helping to sponsor. I will bring all six out and rent or lend out to the cadre at the September Gothic Line game. Some will probably be available for sale on Ebay following the event. If anyone is interested in what will in essence be a brand new converted gun I'll sell them for $660.00 each plus $14.00 shipping. They'll include a shortened magazine, (with instructions on how to make more) Garand web sling, disassembly instructions and will come in the original Marui M14 box along with all the tools that typically come with a new Marui AEG. Lots of real wood and real steel components and a very low price for a custom, unique and rare gun. naturally I'll carefully inspect them following the event and will insure their flawless operation and while they will doubtlessly have a few nicks and dings from use in my opinion that will just make them that much more authentic.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 19, 2006 17:26:45 GMT -5
I sold all of the extra Garands I had at the Gothic Line. I won't have any more for about a month or so. I'll start in on another group of six right away.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 11, 2007 20:09:42 GMT -5
Update for anyone following this thread: The existence of the Double Eagle Chinese M-14 Marui clone really impacted sales of both kits and finished guns. Obviously the vastly reduced cost of a base gun that is very very similar in performance and quality is having an impact. You can buy these M-14s for 125.00 now and probably even less somewhere. With the kit at $300.00 for WW2 airsoft members you can now do it yourself and have a Garand for well under $500.00. I started selling finished Double Eagle based variants for $560.00 finished and my sales have spiked dramatically. So much so that I've gotten back logged and behind on deliveries in spite of spending most every off work hour producing them. I just hit a milestone of having sold 30 kits and finished guns. The vast majority of them finished guns. That means airsoft fields throughout the world are seeing the battle rifle Patton called "The finest battle implement ever devised by man." My goal was to sell 50 and I think I'll hit that by this spring or summer. There will be 8 to 10 Garands at out local Battle of the Bulge event at the end of the month. So far the count is two G&G's, 3 airsoft club, 12 marui based guns and the rest Double Eagles. I'm not counting my personal five guns which I'm using as rentals and test loaners. One G&G two Maruis and Two Double Eagles. Here is a stack of rifles getting their finishing touches before being shipped out. My workshop was too cold so I had to bring them inside. My wife is not amused! Here are the shortened mags in their final design iteration One comes with the finished gun along with instructions on how to make more. Clip in the gun:
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Post by KippySmi7h on Jan 12, 2007 2:10:35 GMT -5
Beautiful......just beautiful. If I had lots of money....Oh, 1 thing. On 1 of the guns in the sink (lol I could understand why the wife is mad) why is the reciever grey and the rest black?
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Doom
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Post by Doom on Jan 12, 2007 22:25:50 GMT -5
On 1 of the guns in the sink (lol I could understand why the wife is mad) why is the reciever grey and the rest black? I assume that reciever is where the camera flash hit and washed out the color in the pic.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 12, 2007 23:40:29 GMT -5
Actually that one has a somewhat different "Parkerization" finish at the request of the customer. It's more of a dull grey then the flat black. Both are authetic and correct. You can't see it too well in the picture but it matches the muzzle on both the Garand components and the M-14 barrel although in the picture the barrle looks darker (not on the actual gun cause I went out and looked. I do some of my guns that way and one of my personal Garands is done up that way. I like it on the darker walnut stocks but less so on the blonde or light shades. Just personal taste.
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click
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Post by click on Jan 13, 2007 18:05:53 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity 2nd Bat, where do you get the knockoff m14's you have been talking about? I have been looking and can't seem to find a place that sells them.
Click
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