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Post by CharleyNovember on Jan 11, 2007 16:57:57 GMT -5
What we are trying to say is we don't trust you Guiness Couldn't hurt to get another examination including the internals.
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Post by Guinness on Jan 11, 2007 17:51:11 GMT -5
Fair enough- I wouldn't trust me either, I know me! ;D -G
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 11, 2007 19:35:17 GMT -5
As mentioned I'm likewise quite confident that they are but since the story from S-3 was that the internals are different it'd be nice to know difinitively if that's so. This is a gun that was always on my "want to have" list so I'm excited that it's out and apparently pretty decent. By the way I'm looking at 4 or five inches of snow outside my window. Nothing liek Denver has but pretty impressive for the pacific NW where we typically get very little snow.
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Post by Guinness on Jan 11, 2007 20:48:00 GMT -5
Yeah, good thing there is this thing called "Global Warming" that is making the planet warmer and warmer huh? ...BTW it's 18 degrees outside my window with snow falling....welcome to Minot ND -G
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Post by schmitty on Jan 11, 2007 22:19:39 GMT -5
I too am quite confident that both versions of the Mp-40 will be exactly the same but since Derek from ASF specifically said the internals where different there is no way to tell except to crack open both versions. I also realize John (2nd bat) already said this but Guinness made me feel guilty that I doubted him. Schmitty
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Post by Guinness on Jan 12, 2007 5:29:15 GMT -5
Aww guys..... My point was that I thought we had already been there, done that is all and you two master-craftsmen should focus your efforts on upgrades, tips on making them look better, i.e. how to paint the plastic to make it look like bakelite, do the TOP bakelite panels fit, How to mod it to use the patented Schmitty blow-back charging handle[/i] etc. ;D Remember- I do the easy stuff like say "Hey look Ma, an MP40! and here are some pictures..." and you guys say "Yes, and look how much better I have made it!" -G
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Post by lordashtaroth on Jan 12, 2007 14:09:30 GMT -5
what are you doing in Minot? (I'm in Grand Forks)
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Ersatzjack
Corporal
"That silly Franz... he thinks we are winning."
Posts: 1,093
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Post by Ersatzjack on Jan 12, 2007 14:31:02 GMT -5
Ever hear the line that "rationalization is the 2nd strongest human drive (next to Airsofting I suppose). Well, everyone that is saying that even at $280 it is still worth it is rationalizing. Even thinking you still got a good deal is wacked. Trust me, just accept like I have that you got taken on this and you'll feel better. This in no way detracts from the fact that this looks like it will be a skirmishable gun and I'm glad about that - but - they'll be those of us that paid twice as much for it. We got taken. It's that simple. Everyone does get taken sometime. Didn't Lincoln have that line about "fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice..." It's no crime to be trusting. So this just reinforces my early comments about not having a U.S. manufacturer of airsoft weapons where we could have accountability and recourse. I do agree with the philosophy that S-3 will ultimately reap no long term benefit from their subterfuge. The ole "what goes around" line is true. Ill gotten gains don't bring the satisfaction that they promise. PS - Ultimately this message is only intended to boost my postings and not hurt anyone's feelings.
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Post by Guinness on Jan 12, 2007 17:16:49 GMT -5
what are you doing in Minot? (I'm in Grand Forks) No sir, I'm here in Denver- I'm just saying that we are getting you guys weather down here this winter. brrrrrr the high today is 9 degrees with snow.....If that's not a "Why not Minot" forecast, I don't know what is ;D -G
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Doom
Private
Deutsche Afrika Korp: Arizona-Abteilung
Posts: 297
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Post by Doom on Jan 12, 2007 18:37:05 GMT -5
Well, everyone that is saying that even at $280 it is still worth it is That would be me. But I don't feel I'm rationalizing. 280 with shipping is not bad. Sure, it's popping up now at 125.00 + shipping and that's frustrating, but I feel I got 280.00 worth of gun/replica. And if it breaks, it can be repaired for cheap! I may have saved 100 bucks if I had waited, but I didn't spend 500 bucks (Sorry about that TOP owners.) to be a guinea pig. On a side note, it's funny how Airsofters accept lousy products out of desperation. Instead of TOP being driven out of business over a horribly designed product, consumers go out and spend ANOTHER 1000 dollars to make the product usable. Imagine Sony releasing thousands of Playstation 3's and they ALL Broke after 2 weeks. And they did nothing about it except sell more defective Playstation 3's. And there was no consequence for their crappy manufacturing or product. IMHO TOP MP40's should have been recalled or had the prices dropped immediately after customers realized they didn't work right.
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cairo1
Private 1st Class
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Post by cairo1 on Jan 12, 2007 19:50:00 GMT -5
(off topic) im actualy quite jelous Guinness as here in addison their is not a spec of snow and we arent evient gitting below freezing and no im not being sarcastic...and i mean that the not being sarcastic as im a sweed and need the cold!!!
i gots to get me one of theise MP40 sounds like the mismatch of fire power will end
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 12, 2007 23:49:48 GMT -5
I agree that the poor design and expensive price of the TOP Mp40 is far more of a ripoff then S-3 coming out first with a product he knew others would see value in even at very high mark-up.
Sometimes you pay a premium to be first. It happens with new cars all the time. Was the adendum sticker on that hot new mustang worth it when folks a year later didn;'t have to pay it? Well what's that year of head turning worth when folks were all seeing yours for the first time? For some people it's worth it to be out there with the latest newest things and there are no regrets. This isn't rationalization, airsoft isn't rational. Emotion trumps logic six to one on items purchased with discretionary funds.
I still haven't received mine yet and am anxiously awaiting it's arrival. I'm reading about other peoples experiences with theirs and mine hasn't fired a BB in my hands yet. I have a deal and they have a gun. At this point they're ahead of the game and have every reason to be delighted. In the case of the marushin M2 I waited and paid more. It swings both ways.
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Post by mikkel on Jan 13, 2007 9:54:19 GMT -5
I completely agree, i have just paid 110$ for the AGM MP40, only to see it a few days later going for 90$. Oh well, still cheaper than i would dare imagine just a year ago
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Post by Blue Crab of PAIN on Jan 13, 2007 12:08:57 GMT -5
Well, everyone that is saying that even at $280 it is still worth it is Imagine Sony releasing thousands of Playstation 3's and they ALL Broke after 2 weeks. And they did nothing about it except sell more defective Playstation 3's. And there was no consequence for their crappy manufacturing or product. . I Dont Know, mine is working fine ;D Im thrilled with the price of this gun, its well within my price range and apparently I wont regret buying it.
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jaeger
Private 1st Class
Posts: 478
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Post by jaeger on Jan 13, 2007 15:17:02 GMT -5
Where is the best place to pick up an AGM mp40 as of now and for the lowest price?
Nick
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Doom
Private
Deutsche Afrika Korp: Arizona-Abteilung
Posts: 297
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Post by Doom on Jan 13, 2007 22:10:30 GMT -5
FOLLOW UP REVIEW: I've put 10 or so magazines worth of bb's through my S-3 Arms MP40 so far and it performs flawlessly....Almost. The last 3 shots in every mag never make it through the barrel. 2 drop onto the ground when I pull out the mag and the last bb stays in the mag. Every time. Not a big problem, just odd. I was able to accurately & consistently hit a priority mail flat box dead center from across my backyard (approx 75 feet). The front of the box was punctured and a few bb's even made it through the back. When actually aiming through the site, my gun is very accurate. I still have the hop up off and will adjust & play with that next. I have yet to use it in a game. Has anyone taken it to a skirmish yet?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 13, 2007 23:12:05 GMT -5
The BB drop of two to five Bbs is very common with AEG magazines when you are empty and change magazines. Absolutely nothing to be worried about. Your performance sounds quite impressive at 75 feet punching through both sides of a box.
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jaeger
Private 1st Class
Posts: 478
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Post by jaeger on Jan 14, 2007 11:13:44 GMT -5
Can anyone let me know what the best price on the AGM MP40 is and where to get it at that price? Thanks!
Nick
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Post by Ripper on Jan 14, 2007 12:17:08 GMT -5
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Post by schmitty on Jan 14, 2007 14:46:08 GMT -5
I'm a bit surprised to hear you (2nd bat) of all people say this. As you usually seem to understand the value of a small company's R&D time and initial tooling fees justifying its higher than normal price tag. Top is not a big manufacture like Marui. Top is closer to Shoei or Tanaka in size and scope (very small). Marui has been a maker of Toys, Hobbies and Model kits for as long as I can remember (long before airsoft). And don't forget that without the Top version we would never have seen the Chinese knock-off as the body is a exact (although cruder) copy of the Top gun. Also, As you pointed out there is value in having something earlier (like buying a PS3 On ebay for twice the price or the mark up on the new Mustangs) And the Top guns where available quite some time ago. Even though I think the Chinese Mp-40's are great. A top MP-40 with a PGC gearbox is a lot nicer.
I don't have any problem with the price that Airsoft force (S-3 arms) charged. They saw an opportunity and took it. I do have a problem with the fact that Derek (from ASF) flat out lied when he said they where different guns (unless they are different internally) and profited from that lie.
Schmitty
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 14, 2007 16:19:08 GMT -5
Agreed on all levels Schmitty except that I find very little excuse for TOPs consistent lack of performance and reliability. Paying more to be first or for something that works better has value. I suppose there is some value for offering somethings others do not. TOP came out with the M-60 MG and for years were the only game in town with that offering. I suffered through two of them and even with expensive and elaborate modifications could never get them to work satisfactorily. The TOP MP-40 has been dissapointing on all levels except appearance and sure after you do the gearbox conversion is excellent but what a shame that's neccessary.
Small company size and the resultant reduced economy of scale is an excuse for high prices but not for poor quality. That's my opinion of course. Is there anything that TOP builds that actually work?
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Post by schmitty on Jan 14, 2007 19:33:28 GMT -5
I definetly agree that there isn't much excuse for the poor performance and reliability of the stock Top guns. I would guess that copyright laws within Japan prevent Top from copying the TM AEG type system directly where as in China, Korea, Taiwan etc. They are free to steal any idea they want.
Schmitty
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Post by Ripper on Jan 15, 2007 13:53:47 GMT -5
Very true, but TOP could cut a deal with say..PGC to provide gearboxes and dump that gwad-awful bellows system. Both companies would see much better sales potential together than each of them providing half of what is an expensive equation. I own a TOP M249 that is a pure maneater when it is running. But keeping it that way is difficult and expensive, and none of the TOP internals are still being used. The TOP MP-40 looks like a work of art, but the internal issues have scared me away completely. I can buy 6 lesser quality Chinese MP-40's for what it would take me to get the TOP up and running properly.
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Doom
Private
Deutsche Afrika Korp: Arizona-Abteilung
Posts: 297
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Post by Doom on Jan 16, 2007 15:08:46 GMT -5
Has anyone ordered from gunnerairsoft.com? How was the experience? I am thinking of buying a second MP40 as a loaner gun (and use the extra mag when it's not being loaned). If you did use gunnerairsoft, how much was shipping?
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Post by indy on Jan 16, 2007 17:08:24 GMT -5
Has anyone ordered from gunnerairsoft.com? How was the experience? I am thinking of buying a second MP40 as a loaner gun (and use the extra mag when it's not being loaned). If you did use gunnerairsoft, how much was shipping? I just ordered an MP40 from them yesterday. He has yet to send me the total with shipping, but if you use his estimate shipping link for EMS and knowing the weight (4500g) it will be $41 for shipping. I will let you know how the transaction goes.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jan 16, 2007 18:05:16 GMT -5
www.georgiaairsoft.com just got the AGM MP40's in today he has three for sale right now. They are not on the website yet but I just talked with him and know he has them as I have been waiting on mine. The price is more than from gunnerairsoft but it is a US business. 215.00 shipped to your door in the US. I think he is one of the first retailers in the states to carry them. Owners name is Chuck, ask him if they come with a 30 day warranty or not most of his guns do but he has been wary of offering that with the China knock-offs. He has a legitimate storefront you can call him and talk to someone in english(southern english but still much better than engrish) and he has good customer service.
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Post by Guinness on Jan 16, 2007 18:08:54 GMT -5
-cough- ....BoomArms....-cough- -G
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Post by neoptolemus on Jan 16, 2007 19:36:11 GMT -5
Gunner is still the cheapest I think. What's more, they offer spare magazines on request as well.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jan 16, 2007 20:22:34 GMT -5
BoomArms=Permanent Address: Ground Floor, 8 Kwong Wah Street, Kowloon, Hong Kong
Gunners is the Cheapest.
Georgiaairsoft is a US alternative is all I am saying and they have spare magazines coming in soon aswell. I think he may offer a warranty as well something you are hard pressed to find with HK. It is just another option. Not everyone will see the value in being able to deal with a US store but I thought I would post it out there for those that would that's all guys.
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Post by Guinness on Jan 16, 2007 20:52:06 GMT -5
No I hear ya Dan- Your right, its one of many options on this piece. $215 to your door is still a fair price. But likely he will sell the remaining few before some of our MP40 wantin' buddies here can act Gunner's is probably cheapest, but I inquired, ordered and received my gun in 4 days from BoomArms- I don't think anybody has received that from gunner- He is freakishly busy Now don't get all defensive ;D 'Sides- we are probably going to find out these things are made using low-yield radioactive material anyway...... -G
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