Where to get gas

I use and recommend the propane adapter.

I believe the question was where localy can he purchase it, not where otr what in general.

134A gas can be purchased at any auto parts store. You'll need to make a "Gordak 134A Adaptor" but it beats buying the 134A from Hong Kong.

Yikes you guys-

HFC134a is PC Duster air-

www.airsoftretreat.com/gbb_guide.asp

The young lad asked where to buy it "locally" so I pointed out the options the allow him an almost limitless supply of 'local air'- PC Duster or Propane-

Obviously the Propane solution would require the installation of the airsoft innovations flow restrictor, which even if you watch the video on the site, is perhaps a bit more advanced that some of us want to tackle.

Get a can of butane re-fill and there are adaptors in there to port the PC Duster air into your gun and voila! HFC134a in your tank!

No more dependance on off-shore oil! ...er uh wait I mean off-shore air!!





-G

"HFC134a is PC Duster air" LOL
"kwc berreta has good durability" LOL


Believe what you want, but I woudl recommend you concider the following.

just look at the date on that article, Back almost in the dark ages of western hemisphere airsoft.

I dare you to take HFC 134a and use it to clean dust out of your computer
DARE You.
I used an m93r on 134 next to a guy using duster on the SAME gun, his slide could not lock back, while mine functioned perfecty. The 134a may have been same psi, but the rate of expansion made the difference.

Let me explain, its possible that some brands of compressed air computer cleaning bottles are a similar psi, but the expansion values would have to be different, otherwise people would dammage their computers from literally spraying ice on the circut board.


Propane just plain destroys guns, and its unsafe.

-Gordak

Have the Japanese tapped some mysterious 'Airsoft only' reservoir of gas in their search for Godzirra and Mothra? doubtful-




Tee hee....had me in stiches for sometime with this one.

Ok, so if duster is hfc134a, but is it held to the same purity standards as the AC Freon we put in our cars?

How much is duster? in winter, 12oz of 134a is $2.79
If the price is the same, I figure ill stick with 134a because i love my guns and dont feel like risking them to dammage.


ok, perhaps some greengas is propane, but is it the type you want to buy?
I put fires out with moscart grenades, according to otheres it should have caused a massive explosion.
So clearly SOME Greengas, is NOT propane.... Why is that the case? probably because some companies bend the law. Anything that is flamible, should by law, be labbled so.
Im not saying your wrong, I just know what the gun is made for, and prefer to stick with it.

The reason I really like 134a, is becasue with my addapter, I can actually keep track of how much gas i put in the magazine, Very important if your going to trust your magazine in the battlefield.

-Sam

Green gas IS propane, the lab tests have proven this. End of story

Appreciate that... I took a risk, a very small risk. If I had taken a can and lit it on fire you might be right. However that is not what I did. A small amount of Green Gas in a small hypo. (Diabetic syringe) was not enough to worry about. Lets not throw insults around. The'll kick me off this board before you know it and I like it here.

Propane being safe:
Of course there is a new PB gun made by Tippmann that runs off propane so I am not sure it is very unsafe to use. Add to that the safety record so far of Green Gas not exploding in guns. Although I did once see pictures of one that exploded in the back of a car on a hot day.

Gordak,

1st,...you'd better cut it out- there is no way that I know more about anything than you- as I said in my first post here, you guys are GODS!

I just have the power of GOOGLE! at my fingertips....and I read a lot of the forums in search of Airsoft news goodies for my addiction...er uh hobby

Hey...Doh! maybe this is an excellent addition to the FAQ page- I mean here we have been discussing it and posting links to the info and whatnot and here comes Mikkel saying

"Green gas IS propane, the lab tests have proven this. End of story"

So the FAQ would be a great place to post some myth-busting info for beginners and 'veterans' alike, in perhaps a 'scholarly' but not too wordy presentation so that WW2AA could also become a resource across the net for Airsoft info! Clearly there are still alot of misconceptions and misunderstandings out there that could use some clearing up.

Mikkel my friend, as Gordak and myself have said, some 'Green Gas' is propane, but certainly not all- It's kind of like saying "All Danish girls are blond and blue-eyed" See? that's certainly not true is it?..........I mean is it??? Cuz if it is, I need names man, NAMES!

As well Gordak made a good point earlier- there are actually LAWS and stuff about the safe handling and transport of flammable gas, which apparently these bottlers and I would dare say some resellers are in 'cahoots' on, because obviously they are breaking them. For instance, I have a 1000ml can of "ET-1000" Green Gas in the familiar camo bottle that I bought in bulk on eBay, and it says on the side under contents: CHz FCF3 CH3 Well first off there is no such gas as that, but I did find a link to a Russian Airsoft forum that cleared the mystery up a bit-

Russkie site that has good info....if you can decypher it

Now, if you read Russian and, well, don't we all You will see that this 'mystery' gas (the can of ET-1000) is actually described as "Top Gas" or RF-22. Which in some circles, and this is where this whole thing starts to get fuzzy, is not in fact [glow=green,2,300]'Green Gas'[/glow] But,...well 'top gas' which isn't green gas and isn't red gas but I guess something in-between. But I'm here to tell ya, this bottle and the 7 others that came with it are......propane- plain and simple. And yes, the inner-idiot in me won yesterday and I did in fact do the 'dumbass test' and syphon some of the remaining gas out of the bottle and yes Virginia, she's-a-flambe! And aadan, I wasn't referring to you specifically when I said 'dumba**', it's just kind of a silly thing to do don't you think? "Hey...let's see if it'll BURN!!" but as you see, I called myself a dumbass when I did it

According to this Russian site and other reports I have read recently, 'Green Gas' was originally meant to describe HFC-134a- the gas that most Japanese mfg's rate their guns as using- However somewhere along the way, I guess in translating from Japanese to English and maybe even Russian, who knows, the whole 'color' thing got jacked up.

So where does that leave us?

For Japanese guns that have not been upgraded to metal components or internals, or that you want to make sure stay in 'factory specs' use HFC-134a-
Sources of HFC-134a:
-KWC 'Power Bombe' 134a
-'Forane 134a Green' -Now this one is interesting, see, they even call it 'green'
-PC Duster Air -With adapter from butane refiller to fill magazines.
-Basically anything that says "134a" in the title or list of contents.

I believe the 'Green Gas' 100ml cans listed on the Evike site are also HFC-134a even though the item description says HFC22:

Evike Airsoft Gas page

Confused? Take a look at the 4th item from the bottom on that page- "RED GAS HIGH PRESSURE GREEN GAS" ....uh WTF? Red gas high pressure green gas?? My brain hurts.

Here is what I believe[/i] is going on- I think the 'color standard' is all knackered up and means nothing anymore. I think there are actually three separate 'levels' of gases out there with four distinct 'varieties' of chemicals-

Green Gas[/i]
Top Gas[/i]
Red Gas[/i]

HFC134a- The lowest or 'weakest' commonly* available propellant (refrigerant) for Airsoft weapons. Required or at minimum strongly suggested by most Japanese manufacturers of GBB or gas-operated guns. Was originally called "Green Gas" and is still refrerred to as that by some Airsoft gas bottlers.

RF-22/HFC22- Next in 'power' magnitude to HFC-134a or 'green gas'. Was originally called "Top Gas" and is still referred to as top gas by some bottlers. There seems to be a mix-up between some resellers listing their 'Top Gas' as 'Green Gas' and there also seems to be a few that list HFC-134a incorrectly as "HFC22" But who can really blame them? I mean have you ever read one of these bottles? "PUT THE TOY GUN CANISTER OUTSIDE OF THE DOOR QUICKLY WHEN IT UNDER FAST LE AKAGE OF THE CLOSE SPACE" uhhh yeah ok . I'm not making that up either nor the space between "LE" and "AKAGE" haha!

Propane- Pretty much a toss up here- dependant on the bottlers understanding of hazardous materials laws, you may see some bottles called 'green gas' that they meant to be 'top gas' slip through filled with propane. I say that because some of the properties of Propane are similar to RF22/HFC22- it's pressure, etc., are similar so I believe this comes from the crowd that wants to rename top gas as green gas but fill the bottles with the cheaper propane.

HFC-404a- "Red Gas" This is actually a 'blend' of 'Green' and 'Top' gases to make a 'slightly' more powerful mixture of gas. Certainly more expensive than the others and if the Japanese makers advise the use of HFC-134a, and some people are using 'Top Gas' and Propane in them and trashing the guns, what do you think this stuff will do?. Definately for upgraded guns and probably not worth the extra expense (my opinion)

The moral of the story? If you want to be on the safe side, spend the extra money and get cans that specifically say "134a" on them- The ones I listed above all do- KWC, Forane- We now know that PC Duster air is HFC134a, if you want to save some $ then use that. As for propane, it's you or your guns funeral....kidding, I'm kidding! yeah it is cheaper than rolling the dice and buying what someone tells ya is green gas but should be top gas- I would say this- When it absolutely, positively, has to explode chunks of your $200+ dollar gun across the room and possibly ignite in your hands[/i] use propane (again, a joke) Use caution...and eye protection always......and a hazmat suit may be good to have handy..ok I'll stop ;D

I really think the whole propane thing came from bottlers wanting to make even more profit by filling with cheap propane over expensive refrigerant- so take that into consideration when thinking about stocking up on green Colemans bottles- would you really be doing this if some overseas greedy bottler wasn't originally trying to maximize his coin and illegally ship a hazardous gas to those silly Americans and Euros? "Watch- these capitalist dogs will buy anything! I won't even hide the smell and they will end up buying more!! muhahahaha!" Kind of backfired on him though because our silly asses now actually believe that we are getting the last laugh!.......BOOM! they are still laughing

*commonly Note- Gordak I think I have a possible solution to the "My friend used duster air in his gun and it wouldn't even operate the slide" conundrum- There is actually yet another not-so-commonly used gas (anymore), CFC12/R12 remember that stuff? you know, the reason-why-the-planet-is-going-to-burn-and-we-are-all-gonna-die gas??? Well turns out it was used in duster cans for a while and is under a bit lower pressure than even HFC123a.


Yikes! I win!! longest post evah!!!



-G

Yea I seem to remember right before I got into airsoft, some guys I worked with, that were big into airosft, around 1999-2001 They had GBB guns, and when I questioned about airsoft he told me to use Green gas, SO I started to do my own research, and at that time, green gas was hcf134a gas.

Then in late 2002 early 2003 the local army navy store got cheap airsoft guns in, with that cammo Green gas, and it seems to me, that ever since I ran into that stuff, online stores,(redwolf) stopped referring to 134a as green gas but 134a, then they still have Red Gas, HFC22 and they have green gas that they say is HFC22 as well.
redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Category?menu1=8&menu2=104#8706

So yea, I think that when airsoft gained more popularity here, they hole color system fell apart.

I noticed the faulty review on the frontpage where it states that HFC 134a is 100% environmentally friendly, actualy its far from it so i recomend using Propane or something similar.

HFC 134a got a ODP of 1700points if i remember correct.
The old R12 had a ODP of 8700points and propane got a ODP of 0.0.
ODP= Ozone Damage Potential.

I for one take the risk of damaging my guns (never hapend so far after 6-7years) than spilling tha other crap into the air.

What does everyone use in his or her 1911?

I use hfc 134a in my Wa 1911s, its what they are made for. Dont forget so oil the mags occasionally, (silicone oil) they can really dry up!