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Post by CharleyNovember on Apr 6, 2006 13:57:31 GMT -5
John I see where my post could have offended you but I did not mean to offend you I was generally curious about your change of heart. I think we agree about the subject at hand though. I don't and neither do you see this particular game helping spread WW2 airsoft. It may well spread airsoft in and of itself however so thier is always a positive to everything. ;D
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Post by Guinness on Apr 6, 2006 14:11:56 GMT -5
Yeah, excuse Dan, he was on pain meds yesterday -G
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Post by flint on Apr 6, 2006 15:09:27 GMT -5
you are absolutely 100% correct in that Guinness some times on Bord's people can't talk with out getting into it'. every one is in-titled too there say' but not at the expense of Flameing''some one else or being hurt full. i know that i am super new to the WW 2AA forum but i have not seen any of that behavior . just people sharing idea's and constructive criticism and i like that. no worries as far as that go's it's all good from this end to. also i do hope to make it out to Colorado next year for the game". will it be the same time next year as this one' also can you point me in the right direction. on the forum here so i can read up on it and what you guy's are doing. have to go now''. have to meet some guy's for Battle front' on-line ;D Jericho D. Flint, Proud to Serve in The 82nd,
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Post by CharleyNovember on Apr 6, 2006 15:19:52 GMT -5
True dat. I tend to be a little crotchety when the meds aren't working and when they are half the time I don't make sense. I feel better today and so I posted the explanation to John.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 7, 2006 0:11:06 GMT -5
When I disagree with anyone on the subject of airsoft I don't think they're wrong, just different. One has to be careful when reading (and writing for that matter) posts on a Forum. Sometimes people read more flame then there actually is. I think with regard to this debate we're all pretty much singing from the same song sheet anyway. Bottom line is we all want the ssme thing and that is to advance action pursuit games like airsoft and meshing it with the historical aspects and veteran honoring aspects of re-enacting.
Like the Red Ball express let's keep er moving! Dan knows he's on my good guy list. I hope everyone else does too!
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Post by predator06 on Apr 10, 2006 16:05:23 GMT -5
I Dont remember Seeing anywhere In Montys post that this was to be a WW2airsoft sponsored event.
Come to think of it, It isnt in my post either.
The point that people seem to be missing is this.
If the people who know how to Push this thing in the RIGHT direction, Boycot these sorts of events because they arent willing to Compromise, in order to show new people that our sort of organization even exists. then you can Guarantee that it will go in the WRONG direction in the future.
ww2 Themed airsoft events are going to happen. And in order to show the people who show up at these events How to do a Proper Impression and not Flaggrantly Wrong it up, People like us are going to have to be there to help out. If you want events like this to not turn totaly Flaggrantly Wrong, than these sorts of events will need "Flaggrantly Wrong police". and thats us.
Boycoting an event because you dont like the Uniform requirements dosent help one bit.
also, It was ww2airsoft that was the first to allow such flexability with its standards by allowing the Green, yellow, orange and red level events. so claiming that Our organization is the high and mighty bar that all others should abide by or else, is Simply the hight of Hypocracy.
Airsoft is a GAME. not a blank fire re-inactment. Just because we happen to take our little corner of the hobby more seriously then most, dosent make it any less of a game. And to keep it from turning into a total Clown fest, people like us should be there to stand as examples of the RIGHT WAY to do things, and try to push it in the right direction. Wich is why I Feel we need to give event Promoters like monty, who are willing to do a ww2 airsoft event our full support.
We may never see a day where hundreds of people show up looking 100% authentic at an event.
But by showing up at an event like montys, we can Promote historic accuracy. And we can find Like minded individuals, who may have never even heard of our organization before, and who are willing to go all out like we do.
I Am not saying that we should relax OUR standards so much as One Iota.
I Am saying we should use events like montys as a sort of "recruiting tool" to get people going in the right direction.
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Post by Guinness on Apr 10, 2006 21:15:51 GMT -5
lol ;D slow down there predator06- let's clear a couple things up for ya- The fact that an event is on the WW2AA board lends a certain implication that is is supported, sanctioned or sponsored by WW2AA. That's the first thing. The second point that you may in fact be missing yourself, is that the Blue, Green, Yellow, Amber and Red Skirmish colors are for WW2AA planned and executed events. Monty's events do not in any way shape or form fit that description and we are simply distinguishing that fact. Again, there is ample language throughout the WW2AA website discussing the uniform and impression requirements for WW2AA sponsored events and events that we would consider to be 'WWII games'- example, the 'blue' event listed on the skirmish page- if in fact Monty was holding a WW2AA event, this would be the closest category to meet his stated "This is not a reenactment" parameters- everything else listed there says, WWII impression required. Reiterated, the main goal of this organization is the promotion of WWII Airsoft reenacting- this is echoed all over this website and has been the mission since day one. This is not a "Hey! Let's spread the word about Airsoft, play Airsoft, promote Airsoft and along the way if we have a chance maybe we'll talk a little bit about WWII and cool WWII guns and those neato German uniforms!" - sorry- there are plenty of those sites already thank you. This group seeks to bridge the gap between the 'Blank Reenactor/ Living History' Hobbiest and those Airsoft players that have an equal obsession, or passion if you will about WWII History, accuaracy and authenticity and a love of WWII era Japanese Airsoft weapons and increasingly, 'Custom' Airsoft weapons which in my opinion once again shows off good old "all-American ingenuity and know-how" So the plain fact is, while we certainly encourage and support the emergence of Airsoft as a sport- we aren't really about holding hands and singing 'kum-bay-ya' around the 'Let's go slowly and tread lightly' campfire- chanting "let's encourage the cross-over players and convince them WWII is cool"- Why? Look at the quality and standards of impressions of the members of this organization- simply put- we don't need to- they are already there. Again, there are plenty of sites out there that cater to the 'Generic' Airsoft crowd, tons and tons that cater to the Modern Milsim or Paramil crowd-WW2AA doesn't have to- it generates interest simply by bieng as descerning as it is and having stated standards and requirements. This site is different, this site is all about WWII reenacting and clearly the members of WW2AA appreciate the level of committment to history and accuracy. Bottom line is people come here, see what we are about, and want to be part of something different and great- even with what some may consider strict standards. Kinda like the Marines So what the hell was my point again? Oh yeah- we like Monty, we think he's doing a great job for Airsoft up there, just not so much WWII[/i]Airsoft and we just need to distinguish between an WW2AA sanctioned and supported event because believe it or not, some folks may not perform all the due diligence and attention to detail that you do and may think to themselves "Well, it's on the WW2AA board......they are WWII reenactors,.....ergo, ipso facto it must be an WWII event or they wouldn't have it on their pages! I think I will drive all day and all night to go play a WWII accurate event! I am so excited! and Gordak is my hero!" and then show up, get out of thier cars and see woodland camo and be pissed off.......and blame Gordak somehow. That's what this whole disclaimer thing has been about. Now this thread has been reasonably civil and friendly, my posts have been designed to keep it that way, let's continue the peaceable discussion without crossing lines or pointing fingers shall we? -G
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Post by AADan on Apr 10, 2006 22:57:21 GMT -5
an example would be not too long ago some reenactors saw some pictures I posted, and thought "that" was what WW2AA was all about. even though I have made it clear I do not represent the WW2AA(Though nowadays I think both of my impressions are as close as alot of the members here) The fact was they saw something on this webnsite and naturally asociated it with WW2AA. That is why I try and make sure everyone knows I do not represent WW2AA and I only post my pictures where appropriate and very few then. I think the events I post about down here may not even be kosher to advertise on this site and if the mods told me to stop I would be happy to no argument.
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Post by Gordak on Apr 14, 2006 20:27:43 GMT -5
Recap, We love how Monty is increasing interest in ww2 airsoft with this themed event, we wish it well, but we want to just make a special note, (so there is no confusion about our authenticity level), that it has nothing to do with ww2AA. -Gordak
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savoy6
Private 1st Class
Posts: 428
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Post by savoy6 on Apr 16, 2006 20:24:00 GMT -5
exactly the same here man....i feel your pain...lol.. i will say that just with the few games we have had down here ,the progression has been toward more acurate uniforms..now if we can just work the tactics end of things..lol..
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Post by predator06 on Apr 17, 2006 15:17:00 GMT -5
Yes actually, I agree. it was a friendly little thread until your rather condescending little post there Guinness. or am I just mis-reading your post as you have obviously mis interpreted mine? So in the spirit of "keeping things nice" I will simply state what I see, with no Malice intended or implied. Having re-read his post, I still fail to see anywhere that it states or implies in any way shape or form that its a WW2Airsoft association sponsored event. and I still disagree that his announcing it here dose so in any way. What I do see is a Guy, Announcing that he is having a ww2 Airsoft themed event. He posted it here, because I am the one who E-mailed him to begin with and suggested he do so. Because I Had hoped that people here would be Interested in this event. But instead, he got hassled about his authenticity standards, and about allowing people to wear non ww2 camouflage, by a group of Hobbyists who by there own rules allow it in there own events. Referring to the "BLUE, GREEN,YELLO, AMBER, and RED" level events,(witch is intended to allow for people who are still building there impressions) A Point which I in fact did not miss at all. I Fail to see where the rest of your post has any bearing at all on My post, so I will assume it was intended for others, and leave it at that, because Basically My whole point is quite simply this. Its not very complex. even though I seem to have overly complicated it with allot of words. (those of us who are willing) Lets GO to Monty's event, and Represent for Ourselves what the standards of the WW2 Airsoft association are, and use this as a sort of "recruiting tool" to find people, who Like us, DO in fact desire a higher level of authenticity in there games. Because I am willing to bet that More than one person shows up at Monty's event, wearing an authentic impression, who has never even heard of the WW2 Airsoft association before, But would like to Join. and I am also betting that there will be a few guys who will show up to the event, who will want to get involved with more authentic ww2 airsofting, after he sees a strong showing of people in Authentic ww2 garb, But has no Idea where to start collecting the stuff he needs. Once again, No malice intended in my post. But its my right, witch I choose to Exorcise, to disagree with some of you.
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Post by Guinness on Apr 17, 2006 17:03:19 GMT -5
I'm worn out by this whole thread.
I am pretty sure we all get the point here and it seems to be echoed by the responses- What seems to be the issue perhaps is that you feel a bit sensitive to the fact that you invited Monty to post here and his lack of authenticity was quickly discovered- sorry, you'll have that with a group that takes it's hobby this seriously.
Go, enjoy, have fun- spread the Airsoft doctrine. Most of us would not because we want to play with others that are in a bit more accurate impression- No one is saying you shouldn't go and enjoy yourself.
You can PM me if you want to take this offline, but I am officially sticking a fork in this one- it's done.
-G
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 17, 2006 23:14:34 GMT -5
I think this thread certainly does a great job of providing clarity on everyones thoughts. It also clearly indicates the association (WW2 airsoft) perspective on the event. It's not what we're all about but as Sam said, we like where he's trying to go. (meager effort that it is!) and that's why he allowed him to make mention of his effort. The concern is that those who are quite serious about the living history aspect might misinterpret the site and the organizations goals and standards.
I must admit I sway back and forth in my view of participating vs not participating in such events. I think the arguments expressed on the forum have convinced me that more good comes from several players attending in great impressions and representing our hooby then boycotting and refusing to make a showing.
Here in the NW we're still well short of the authenticity levels we'd like to reach and it has been a progressive movement with many fits and starts and lots of compromises. Helmutt had many a game with under 10 players where he provided the garb such that it was. I lent gear and subsequently sod gear that falss short of my current standards but frankly were a decent start at reasonable expense early on. Helmutt is now on the verge of 3 or four dozen players (maybe more) many with their own high quality full blown impressions and everyone displaying a reasonable effort.
It's hard to remember that initially it was folks such as myself showing up at regular skirmishes in full period regalia and recruiting subtly from the ranks of traditional paintsofters. The folks who are interested as you say gravitate. This themed event is more prone then most skirmishes to attract such folks. I wouldn't attend cause essentially we've gotten past that need locally but shame on me for forgetting how we got here. I apologize for my snobish elitism and short memory. By all means attend and make a good showing of yourselves. Bring a notebook and get e-mail addresses! Build a data base of prospective interested parties and be prepared to share gear and spare impression items until they're able to get their own.
Accept my apology and try to understand my impatience. I'm old and very anxious for this hobby to mature and move forward. I want to be around for the 100+ player national event with close to complete adherence to the highest standards possible. It's coming and I have to remeber that no matter what approach people take we all want the same thing in the end.
Good luck! and have fun!
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