2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 8, 2006 12:52:27 GMT -5
I continue to get inquiries about the Garand and love the ongoing interest. To help others I'll share some of the answers to questions I keep getting:
So far kits and finished guns have been about a two to one proposition. (Two kits for every finished gun) That surprisies me as the kits are quite easy to assemble and I expected it to be about 10 to one!
I can be paid by money order/ cashiers check or PayPal PM me for details when ready to order.
I don't have sufficient inventory where you can always specify Blond Wood, Medium Colored Wood or Ebony Dark Walnut Wood. I do try to match the wood components as closely as possible with every kit and finished gun. The kit includes stains that along with the instructions allow you to achieve a very good match.
My preference on wood finish runs from Medium Dark to Dark Walnut as that is most commonly the shades of wood components I get and is frankly the most authentic for a WW2. Garand replica.
If nothing else I will be producing them for myself. My plan has been to have at least 6 in my own inventory for use at local WW2 events and corporate events I put on. That's been my plan. Thus far every time I get close I get a sudden surge of purchase (One or two for me is a surge!) and I have to ship off what I've built. I'll probably always have the contents for a kit and several M1 garands available for sale. There are lots of people saving up for them. In the meantime I keep getting better ideas on how to improve them either through my own experience or the experiences of others.
You do typically have to darken the Marui, G&G stock to match the real Garand handguards but everything you need in order to do that and make the original M-14 stock look vintage and correct is included in the kit or done for you in the finished gun.
I expect to sell perhaps 100 guns and kits over the next couple years so it is a very limited edition custom gun. I generally have between 4 and a dozen kits and or finished guns in stock. The most finished guns I've had is 7 at one time. yes next time I have a bunch finished in one place I'll take a picture.
All my prototypes are sold. the magazines on the prototypes were completely different and stuck out further then the current design. Yes you can get more magazines for the prototypes and yes somewhere along the way I'll build some that fit more flush in the prototypes if time and inspiration permit.
Yes I continue to hear from customers about new approaches and yes I keep figuring out better ways to build the guns.
No I can't do any better on the current prices which are reduced for WW2 airsoft club members by $50.00 on the kits and $150.00 for finished guns. $300.00 for kits and $695.00 for finished guns.
The finished gun and kit includes one shortened mag with instructions on how to shorten others.
The shortened mags in my current design fit in the garand cartridge belts and are 12 to 14 rounds capacity and fire every round. No BB drops (generally)
I'll post other questions/ answers as they come up.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 8, 2006 15:34:04 GMT -5
Here is a cool picture of one of my rifles sent to me from a customer. It looks great glopped in with his gear.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 9, 2006 12:19:25 GMT -5
I just got an interesting question from a Garand builder. He was having trouble getting his battery to fit in the Garand after he had made the conversion. I responded that one of mine was like that to. The battery fits but it's frustratingly hard to slide in and out. I thought it was a Marui thing. (Some were like that and some weren't) What I realized when I went out to examine it more closely I discovered that when I did the kit the wiring fell out of the stock or I took it out. Which I probably do with most of them in the course of preparing the stock for the conversion. In this one rifle, I put the wiring back in but didn't weave it through the hollow channel at the top of the Marui stock like it's supposed to go. The result is the wiring is threaded through the space the battery occupies and impedes it somewhat. Over time (especially sliding the battery in and out) it could damage the insulation on the wires and cause shorts. Based on that I will add a cautionary note in the assembly manual. The other thought is carefully slide the battery in where it creates a really snug fit (no wobble whatsoever) and leave it there. Charge the battery in the gun and never remove or reinsert it.) Best suggestion is tape the wiring in place so it won't come out or get in your way during the transformation as rethreading it back through this channel is somewhat hard normally and especially hard after you've resin pasted the butt plate flap channels and can no longer remove the butt plate other then to open the trap door.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 14, 2006 12:54:09 GMT -5
I got a cool tip today from a customer. One of the additional steps spelled out in the assembly manual is to remove the butt plate flap of the M-14 and fill the channels with the resin pastes supplied. The underside of the butt plate flap of the M-14 (marui) looks very similar to the garand butt plate so this works well and with a little filing and some paint, ends up looking pretty good. The upper portion of the butt plate however winds up being smooth rather then the waffled finish of a Garand. This fellow slopped additional resin paste to a greater thickness and then before it is completely dry uses the now unused butt plate and presses it against the resin paste to transfer the waffle iron texture over to the newly created butt plate. The result is a finish that is very very similar to a garand even for the highly discriminating eye. Once again a little filing and sanding and some paint and the effect is very cool. I'm going to go back over my finished guns and add that step. Great idea!
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jun 14, 2006 18:32:32 GMT -5
You are always improving your kits thats what I like about you John...An innovator you are. Keep up the good work man.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 14, 2006 20:49:09 GMT -5
I can't tell you all the cool things folks are doing to make the kits better but I'm eating it up. Another nice thing a guy did was cut away the lower baseplate section from the trigger assembly and use it to camouflage the mag well opening. It didn't quite cover the entire opening but close. I finally managed to buy several trigger assemblies only to discover that cutting the section off you want to use is incredibly hard I'm still working on it as time allows. I hope once I have it done to be able to splash a mold so folks can snap it into place for a more authentic finished look for posing and such.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 16, 2006 2:20:50 GMT -5
Yes the kit can be adapated to a G&G M-14 but I need to know so the kit sent will be set up for that application. Which do I prefer. I am and have always been a huge Marui fan but the G&G is an excellent gun as well. I especially like that the G&G lower stock is more robust in appearance and has better looking simulated wood to start with. It shoots a little harder stock right out of the box and adapts to upgrades more readily at present then the Marui. (more conventional design) It's also available with actual wood lower stock for a far more affordable dollar amount then the $350.00 optional Marui real wood after market lower stock. Dislikes on the G&G version: Early versions had some reliability issues. The cost is higher for the base gun. I don't like the magazines as well. The operation in semi auto mode is not as silky smooth and immediate as the marui version. Low cap magazines are harder to come by and more expensive by $4.00 a piece.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 30, 2006 11:39:25 GMT -5
After spending more time with both the Marui M-14 and the G&G M-14 I have to mention another difference between the two. The marui gearbox is silky smooth on semi with very little gear whine prior to the BBs departure from the muzzle. The G&G has that annoying delay (even with a larger battery) and it exhibits quite a bit more trigger pull which is especially troublesome in semi mode which is the way I generally fire the Garand of course. In addition the hop up system in the G&G guns is not as consistent as the Marui. I do like the thicker lower stock on the G&G and the overall feel of the G&G and it is available with an affordable real wood lower stock for $140.00 (Ash made to look like Walnut) The base gun however is quite a bit more epensive for a gun that frankly isn't as nice as the Marui.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 19, 2006 18:34:18 GMT -5
Here is another great picture from one of my European customers. Note this is the base conversion. He's completed the bare minimum effort (still hasn't filled the butt stock slots or the mod on the receiver group area and a few other tweaks but two hours into the effort this is his new garand! I was interested to see he preferred a lighter, duller wood finish. I'm starting to get lots of finished pictures from folks and really appreciate the shots and tweaks and mod suggestions you're sharing. Keep em coming!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 30, 2006 15:32:58 GMT -5
I got a lot of recent PMs lamenting the cost (some on the verge of giving me hard time for what I charge) I understand that $300.00 for the kit seems like alot and $695.00 plus shipping constitutes an expensive AEG. I understand that. I'm sorry about the realities of life
Here are some things to consider when factoring if it constitutes a fair deal excerpted from a PM (one of several recent PMs from a particularly interested and very polite forum member.)
"Unfortunately yes. The cost involved in custom work are outrageous. There's lots of hit and miss and huge amounts of time invested and parts wasted.
The reason custom guns out of Japan and England are always $1500.00 to $2,500.00 is because that what it takes to make the business case for the effort. I wish that wasn't true but it is.
The reason my Garand is even as reasonable as it is, is because the base gun was so similar and the actual parts from Garands are fairly affordable and don't require huge modifications to make them work. Even at that I ruined at least two or three complete sets trying out different things until I got it all to work. I then had to set up jigs and templates to do the kits. My investment in parts tools and jigs was well over $3,000.00 and I have to buy the M-14s in lots of six at a time to keep the costs reasonable on finished guns and I have to buy Garand part lots with minimum orders of $2,500.00 at a time (again to insure availability and reasonable costs) Anyone else in our hobby you know willing and able to do that?
If this were exclusively what I did there is just no way it would make sense. I wish someone made a Garand as a fully manufactured high volume AEG gun as well as a BAR and AEG carbine but they don't. That's the only way they'd be available at anything close to affordable and they still wouldn't use hardwood parts and real steel actual parts like my conversions.
If you want a Garand your choice is a Smokeys Gas custom that works horribly and is extremely expensive. I n this case you truly don't get what you pay for. A marushin gas blow back which is an excellent replica has a very cool clip loading and ejection function and is marvelous for plinking and showing off but isn't practical as a skirmish weapon. Once you buy adequate clips, 8mm BBs, 134 gas and pay shipping you've invested $600.00 and will shortly finding yourself needing an additional AEG so you can actual compete on the field. another $400.oo by the time you get spare mags , pay shipping and finally since you have two replica guns now (probably a gas garand and a thompson) you'll have to buy web gear that can support both with your impression. Frankly there could be worse things in the world and they both are cool guns but if you're really on a budget get a M-14 and do the conversion yourself (roughly $650.00 or buy a finished Garand AEG for $695.00 plus shipping and have single gun that works on all levels. (my self serving 2 cents response)
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 24, 2006 23:08:58 GMT -5
Another rash of PMs which I always see as a sign of legitimate interest but feel free to post on the boards as I'm sure other people wonder about the same things you do. A reasonable question that I was recently asked and have been asked before is why don't I make the magazine so the base looks like the real Garands plate that sits on the bottom of the rifle covering what on the M-14 is the exposed mag well?
Some customers have used actual garand trigger assemblies (which include that base plate) and have cut that section off and created a kind of cover that apparently looks right when the gun isn't being used. I haven't seen pictures yet but I imagine it would look really good. I thought briefly about making the bottom of my magazines take on that shape so the gun would look right with a clip in place even from the bottom of the gun.
The problem to me was, with that plate, the clips (magazines) would no longer slide into the Garand ammo pouches on the Garand service belt. The design I have doesn't look perfect but it almost sits flush in the rifle, pretty much fills the mag well and even uses a real garand clip plate which I like the looks and feel of. The shortened mag holds 12 to 15 rounds and one is included with each kit or finished gun along with directions on how to build others using low cap Marui or G&G magazines and actual Garand clips which are quite inexpensive. ($.50 a piece)
Cutting the plate off the rest of the Garand trigger assembly is quite hard as weapons grade steel is pretty tough stuff. It's doable and I suppose I should do one just so I can show what that would look like for anyone deciding that's what they'd like on theirs.
Another PM said: Why don't you just set up a mold to make the shortened magazines yourself so you could include a bunch with every gun. Common molds could be done in three or four parts but simply won't provide the precision and quality needed for the tight and uniform channels needed in a smooth operating functional BB magazine that fits and works wihout jiggling. An injection mold for the four sections require a set up charge of $10,000 to $12,0000. Do the math and you can quickly figure that at my limited volume that doesn't make sense. I wish it did but it doesn't.
I'm still hoping to break even on this adventure, not poor in more money that I won't get back. The guns work great, are 95% visually there and for an AEG Garand are your only affordable options. I wish that weren't true but it is. I've been holding my breath for a Marui or G&G or SRC or someone to make a Garand but I just don't think it's going to happen at least not in the next few years. The volume and interest in a long long rifle with minimal magazine capacity doesn't appeal to 99.9% of this airsoft market who likes modern and manueverable carbine lengths with big magazine capacity so they can hose the world before them and don't have to aim! We who reenact WW2 have different vision but it isn't commonly shared thus far.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 26, 2006 19:27:04 GMT -5
I just finished another G&G. M-14 conversion to an M1 Garand. This time I did it using the available G&G wood lower stock which sells for around 140.00. It of course had to be cut to a shorter length and then sanded and stained to match the actual Garand wood used. I went with a lighter more blonde wood then the usual dark walnut I usually go with. I did this to emphasize the all wool construction. For the most part I like the Marui M-14 as a base better as it tends to be a more reliable base gun and it fires beautifully on semi auto. (The G&G seems to be working harder when on semi and has both more trigger pull and a longer delay before firing). The G&Gs are also more expensive and I've had a couple fail which frankly has never happened with any of the Maruis. The upside is the lower stock in the G&G is more robust and looks somehow more Garand like once shortened. This is especially true with the real wood stock which is a nice touch.
The stock and garand wood are drying now but I'll stick them all on the gun and gets some pictures taken and posted. It's going to be real pretty gun I think.
One element I like about the available optional wood stock for the G&G is I was able to leave the M-14 base stock alone. Hence in about 1 hour I can switch the same gun back and forth in essence giving me two guns in one.
I also have quite a collection of take off upper handguards for the M-14s I've converted so I've taken some of them and have drilled vent holes and painted them both brown and black to replicate the rare but cool looking vented early M-14s. I remember in ROTC that some of the issue M-14s had vented slots and others didn't. We also had some upper handguards that were black and most were brown. I'm not at all sure what the significance of that was.
I liked the look of the vented handguards. I'd love to find a market for the muzzle flash suppressors that I now have dozens of and the take off, rear butt plate flaps. They'll probably come in handy if and when I do a BAR!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 25, 2006 2:57:45 GMT -5
I just discovered a supplier of reasonably priced lower real wood stocks for the marui guns. They are $145.00 shipped and are built by Pro Arms. I have heard that they aren't a simple snap on accessory and require a little dremel work but compared to the nightmares I've experienced trying to use real garand stocks and real M-14 stocks I'm sure it'll be easy in comparison. I've ordered one and can't wait to slip it on my next conversion. Naturally I'll post pictures once I get it and get er done.
Incidently sales are now one for one kits and finished guns. I'm shocked by that as the kits are quite easy to do. I'm doing the shortened clips 10 at a time which is a far more efficient way to do them but they are still more work then I wish they were to do. I keep thinking I'll have a bunch of them for me to use at a big game but my inventory always shrinks just before and event. I have visions of having a full 10 of the finished shortened clips in my Garand belt to blast away with but so far the most I've had at a game is four. They snap in very nicely and using the little magazine speed loaders keep you in the fight pretty well. Pulling them out of the ammo belt to reload is cool and gives one a good appreciation for why WW2 GIs either had them set out for quick reloads when in their foxholes or fastened them on their web gear for handier and quicker reloads. The Garand ammo belts were definitely not high speed set ups. In a real Garand of course the clips were pop out forget type items where with my set up you have to remove the clip and recover them into your web gear so they won't get lost. I use a khaki gas mask bag as a dump pouch which works well. Jump pant pockets are also a easy place to stuff the used clips when they are emptied.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 26, 2006 19:42:08 GMT -5
Several people have asked me the following question: What are the visual and functional differences between your Garand following the conversion and a real steel Garand.
The differences between my replica and the real steel Garand are extremely minimal and wouldn't be noticed by most people even close up.
25 caliber Bbs fired at AEG velocities vs 30 caliber mega grain at 2800 FPS being the most pronounced! Obviously the loading from the bottom is different! Duh! My shortened mags hold 12 to 14 rounds (I recommend you load 12) vs the Garands 8 round clips. The M-14 stock is somewhat sleeker and less robust then the Garand )especially below the receiver group) The M-14 wood stock had some exposed disc surfaces on the side of the stock that I recommend people fill. (materials to do so are included in the kit) My Garand is 2 lbs lighter then a real Garand. Come to think of it so's a BUICK. The real Garand was 9 1/2 lbs and is really heavy! My guns are 7 1/2 lbs and everyone who carrys one in an airsoft game whines about it by the end of the day. The overall length is within an inch and a quarter of the real garand but the reciever group section is 3/ 8ths of an inch shorter in length. The upper hand guard clip is slightly farther back on my kit and the hand guard itself is shortened and carefully resized to fit and look right.
The other differences can actually be modified and the process for doing these additional conversion steps are spelled out in the manual / assembly instructions. These include steps like shaving the mag release so it's less obvious. removing and covering the selector switch (leaving it on semi of course!) Filling the stripper clip load guide directly above the bolt. and replacing the butt plate all together with the very similar but slightly different actual Garand butt plate. Note that if you do that the trap door is not large enough to insert or remove the battery as you can with the inner butt plate on an M-14.
I usually just remove the butt plate flap and fill in the channels using the materials in the kit and if I'm really feeling ambitious I smear a little resin paste, let it harden somewhat and then use the waffle pattern from my now dicarded M-14 butt plate flap and press it against the resin paste so the M-14 inner butt plate looks just like a Garand but has a slightly larger trap door through which I can slide my 8.4 Volt battery. Once dry, a little paint that matches the parkerization and it looks great.
The differences we're talking about here are extremely, extremely minute. Another suggestion which apprently some of my customers have done but I still haven't seen pictures is they've taken the lower stock cover thats part of the trigger assembly and cut it off and fashioned it so it covers the mag well. I imagine that would be a nice touch but I haven't felt motivated to do it frankly.
I try to be careful and only show photos of the fairly basic conversion efforts as the plan was to keep the conversion a 2 hour process so people wouldn't feel too intimidated to try it. The only thing keeping folks from furthering the transition is their own time and talent as well as their own need for authenticity.
The two hour convesrion is 98% there in my opinion. It does not end up looking like some kind of Frankengun (in my obviously biased opinion) The pictures tell the tale. If you struggle to see the difference it should be fine for you. If the subtle differences wig you out and you can't deal with them that's fine. There are no secrets here. I just spelled out the key differences that most gun experts are hard pressed to spot even when asked and after carefully examining and handling the gun. I hope for some of you who are potentially interested in the kit or finished gun this helps. Please feel free to post these questions on the board so I can answer them once for everyone and don't have to get 3 or four responses into my PM section before I figure I should post them here.
Thanks for everyones ongoing interest. I actually sold two today which is a very unusual day.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 27, 2006 10:55:32 GMT -5
This picture will give you an idea of the variations of shades of wood and an opportunity to visually compare the M-14 on the right with the converted M1 Garands. Can you tell which ones have real wood lower stocks and which ones are using converted and modified plastic lower stocks? The answer is: They're all plastic lower stocks!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 3, 2006 15:53:52 GMT -5
I've had a few folks comment that their forward gas assembly from the actual M1 Garand would work it's way lose during hard play. I've experienced the same on my loaner rental guns. I've never had the problem on any of the guns I personally use but I'm not a 20 year old anymore so I don't do nearly the tuck and rolls and dives and low crawls that I used to!
A simple fix and you can see it on the guns in the picture above is to put a thin band of black electricians or cloth tape around the base barrel and the gas reservoir. (you can see it on the gun on the left and the two guns in the center (On the barrel assembly below the site) This little bit of tape snugs things up and prevents the gas assembly from poppoing off during play. A much thinner strand (less pronounced visually) would probably do the trick as well since it really doesn't take much to snug things up. Incidently two of those rifles above just recently sold for over $800.00 And the M-14 on the right is now an M1 All wood Garand that I personally am going to use for my own personal weapon.
I doubt I'm going to hit my goal of 100 Garands out there being used in WW2 airsoft fields but I'm pretty sure I'll hit 50 which was kind of my break even point investment wise.
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Post by schmitty on Nov 4, 2006 1:08:59 GMT -5
The Picture looks great. I have to agree with you about the colour. I like the dark walnut versions best. It's very nice to see and hear the enthusiastic response you have recieved on this project.
Schmitty
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 16, 2006 2:25:58 GMT -5
Thanks Schmitty. I have some other questions that keep coming up in PMs that should be posted for anyone interested. Shipping is obviously quite a bit less for the kits then the rifles but both are reasonable within the US. The Kits range from $8.00 to 11.00 from West to east Coast and the Rifles which are quite heavy at 15 lbs for the complete package range from $18.00 to $22.00 from West Coast to East. The kit to Europe is $12.75 on a slow boat (Four weeks) and 29.00 5 to 10 days and the complete rifle is $65.00 with insurance to the UK and other Western European countries. I've not had any trouble thus far sending the kits or finished rifles to any foreign countries and sales have included Spain, Russia, Norway, UK (multiple times) and the Netherlands and Belgium. I don't know the laws in each of these countries and put the burden of your Customs seizures on you the buyer. I'm of course assuming either they've not been checked or all is well. I put a disclosure on the gun letting the authorities know they aren't real firearms and can't be made to fire live ammunition.
Canda is the only country thus far that has prohibited the sale and shipment of both a finished rifles and a kit. hence I advise all Canadians not to bother attempting it.
Arrival times vary dramatically depending on the type of shipping and delays at Customs can be very frustrating and unfortunatly are increasingly commonplace. I've had kits delayed a month but thus far have always been released. (Knock on wood!)
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 26, 2006 17:25:24 GMT -5
People recently have been asking about the new Double Eagle M-14 Marui knock off replica. They are considerably less expensive then a Marui and very very close in design and quality. I've received an initial shipment and have turned a couple into Garands so far. For those who recently bought Garand finished guns, don't worrry your guns were Marui or G&G based guns. (Unless I otherwise specified that it was a knock off base gun.) It frankly would be extremely hard to tell the difference but there are some slight quality issues that remain a bit of a concern. (poor shimming and no grease in the gear box) The labelling is different (Made in China subtly noted on the receiver group) and their is no SPRINGFIELD logo marks on the knock offs. The butt stock under the flap is not as nice so I replaced it altogether with a real garand butt plate. A subtle but nice enhancement but becuse the real garand trap door isn't big enough for a battery insertion does require full removal when changing batteries.
I also haven't finished the annex that may be required for the assembly instructions for the Double Eagle variant. (Noting the changes needed such as the butt plate) The distributor and marketer has instituted some changes since my initial order of guns and I'm going to wait to see what the finalized version is like before I formalize the manual. It sounds like on the new guns the gas reservoir assembly is going to be metal and come apart just like the Marui. The initial batch of guns had a plastic gas reservoir that had to be cut away. They are also eliminating the hokey rail attachement on the stock base. (which I just cut away anyway) The original batch and the next grouping are coming with a hi cap magazine which for me is a problem as my conversion requires the shortening of a low cap or mid cap magazine which for each finished gun I'll have to buy extra. I suppose there might be a market for M-14 hi cap magazines once I accumulate a dozen of them or so. I wish there was a market for the muzzle falshes I remove, the hand guards and the butt plate flaps as well as the gas reservoirs. I'm accumulating a bunch of them!
I am assured that the second batch has remedied the grease/ lube issues and is improved in numerous other ways. I should know in a week when I recieve the next grouping. My gut instinct is they will make a perfectly adequate base gun with few tweaks needed on my parts and little if no difference in performance. (the knock offs actual shot somewhat harder right out of the box then the Maruis and quite a bit harder after properly lubed. (328 to 334 FPS vs 276 to 284) w .20 gram Bbs.
I sold the finished guns with the Double Eagle base gun for $575.00 plus shipping and that is my target price for this variation. I can however only do this if the next batch don't require dissasembly and reshimming / lubing of the gear box which I had to do with all the original guns. If it still appears neccessary I can extend it as an optional service along with potential upgrades while I'm in there.
The first batch came with a charger that was unworkable in the US (Chinese prongs) but did include a 1500 Mah 8.4 Volt full sized Ni Cad battery. Hopefully the next batches will have the right charger, will be properly shimmed and lubed and will feature a one piece removable metal gas reservoir.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 13, 2006 20:49:40 GMT -5
The latest iterations of the Double Eagle M-14 knock off is greatly improved from the initial order. I've now receieved two additional shipments of them (six guns to a shipment) The butt plate is now identical to the marui and no longer needs to be replaced. (The flap is still removed and discarded) The gas reservoir assembly which is removed for my conversion anyway is higher quality and comes off in a single unit now.
The charger continue to be unusable in the US and the standard battery is now a 1200 Mah 8.4 with full sized Tamiya clips. The wiring is cross wired on about half the guns and has to be reconnected for the guns to work (that was a frustrating situation to track down and is going to cause new owners headaches and probably create a bad name for the gun!) I probably wouldn't have figured it out except that the wiring went to a less robust guage of wire and I had other correct guns to compare it with. The lubrication and shimming is as it should be and the guns shoot harder out of the box then the initial grouping I got. They now fire at 328FPS to 334 with .20 gram. This compares very favorably to the 276 to 284 or so with the Marui. They now come standard with a hi cap magazine. (I require low caps for my conversions so I don't see that as a plus but I sell off the hi caps and cover the cost of the replacement low caps) They also come now with a scope mount that is also un neccessary for the M1 garand conversion but it's well done and could be used on a marui M-14 just fine. The simulated wood stocks really look good and the overall feel and quality is exceptional for the money. I wish the charger worked in our plugs and they'd stuck with the 1500 mah battery instead of going to the 1200 mah. The gas channel is copper colored where it's black on the Marui and G&G so this has to be painted on the conversions since it's exposed once the conversion is finished. Because I no longer have to go through all the gearboxes to insure lubrication and proper shimming I'm able to further reduce the full blown conversions using the Double eagle M-14 as a base to $560.00 plus shipping for the finished M1 garands. The process is virtually identical to the process with a marui as the parts are 95% identical. The Double Eagles accept magazines and upgrade replacement parts from Marui. The cross wire incident was troubling but an easy fix and otherwise I am extremely impressed with this new opportunity.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 24, 2006 16:03:26 GMT -5
The latest series of questions regarded the ability to use the available real wood stocks on the conversions of the G&G, Marui and Double Eagle base guns. These are optionally available and can be converted but of course at extra costs. They have increased the cost on the real walnut stocks and they are often back ordered from my suppliers but I'm always ordering them and hope to always have some available to finish a custom gun or special request in either the gun or the kit. Figure an average additional cost of $160.00 but check prior on availability and current costs. If it's a finished gun with a wooden stock I can ship with the original components and unalterred M-14 stock so you could convert the gun back and forth in essence having then both an M-14 and an M1 garand. (1 1/2 hour swap around)
The other question that keeps coming up is whether the Double Eagle will prove as reliable and durable as the Marui and G&G. At this point that's impossible to say. There have been some teething problems (which I take care of prior to shipping on my finished guns) Once taken care of, the guns seem very, very Marui like in every respect. They aren't quite as precise in terms of hop up and they occassionally double feed on semi. I predict their reliablity will be better then a G&G and not as good as a stock unalterred Marui. They do shoot harder of course and if they do break can be fixed or upgraded with all Marui components. My experience thus far and the experience of my early customers has been very, very encouraging. The Marui continues to be the gold standard but for the money the Double Eagle is an amazing value.
Since so many people are asking about it in PMs to me I thought I'd post my reponses for everyone who might be interested. One comment I've heard and experienced myself is the Marui magazines (and subsequently the shortened clips) work fine but do require a slight break in period to insert and extract smoothly and effortlessly. Early on they need to be worked a bit. Simple filing could probably remedy this. The Double Eagle plastic stock looks way better even without my stock treatment then the marui and subsequently works real well on the garand conversions. I do recommend some additional paint work on the innards of the Double eagle that enhance the finished look. (The gas port tube is brass and needs to be painted dark grey or flat black for the small amount that shows under the gun. (Paint is included in the kit and I paint the finished guns before shipping) This is a nice enhancement on the Maruis as well but less essential as their innards are a bit more subdued.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 11, 2007 2:17:23 GMT -5
Responses to more recent PMs.
1. The inexpensive Deepfire low cap mags work great for the conversion both in the Marui and the Double eagle and shorten quite nicely. They're about $11.00 delivered a piece from WGC 2. The FNC mags, I haven't tried. 3. No, you can't use hi caps and shorten them. 4. The G&P mid caps for some reason don't work. I've tried two and neither feeds at all. Yes I tried the tip revision sites recommend and it just got worse. 5. For those wanting a more secure gas reservoir muzzle assembly there are a couple approaches that work well and I'm now doing them with every finished gun. Drill a small hole on the rear ring of the gas reservoir assembly and continue it part way into the M-14 outer barrel Tap the hole and secure with a small screw. You could also use epoxy and permanently attach the assembly both at the muzzle and back at the rear ring. That's probably not a bad idea as there's should be no reason to disassemble this section and it won't interfere with the usual dissasembly of the gun. Use sparingly so it won't slop all over everywhere. A little bit will work fine. 6. For some reason the real wood stocks I've been getting from China as an extra cost option have completely dried up and seem to be permanently on back order. I am checking on custom work to get them done locally Set up is a bitch but the call for them seems like it might support the cost. they would all be black walnut and would only be available on the Marui and Double eagles. (probably a $200.00 option) 7. I am currently sold out of kits. Hope to get materials in to make more in a couple weeks. 8. I have four finished rifles in stock (Brand new, 1 Marui, one G&G and two Double eagles) 9. I have my four, rental loaner, tester guns and they are not presently for sale. 10. Several people asked if I recommend removing the selector switch for authenticity. You certainly can and I've done it on a few guns. I don't recommedn it unless you only use the gun for reenactor events. For normal skirmishing, fully auto is a nice option as some players sadly don't register a hit from the single hits. Also the Double eagle fires far better and cleaner on fully then it does on semi auto as does the G&G. I wish they were as crisp as the marui but nohing is. 11. Can I use the gearbox for a Carbine AEG? Unfortunately no it's still too big. A BAR is certainly possible as are some other great WW2 guns but the carbine won't work. 12. Will I sell just the owners manual? No. 13. Can I sell a cheaper kit by leaving stuff out. What's the point? 14. Can I sell a finished gun with all new wood hand guards in a matching finish that would look like a new gun. Yes. Does it cost more? No The new handguards are available. I personally like the vintage look of a veteran military rifle but the cost is the same and the effort is identical. 15. Can you do different shades of finish? On a case by case basis yes. Sometimes I have a wide enough variety of shades on hand to do so but often times I don't, just ask. 16. Am I sick of building them yet? Yes I'm getting there but I have about 20 more to go to hit the 50 I set for a goal. 17. Aren't you scared the Chinese will come out with a Garand?. No I'll be delighted. I'm only doing this so the gun is available on WW2 airsoft field in a skirmishable form. I have sent many of the manufacturers pictures on what I'm doing and suggesting it regularly 18. Won;t they be able to do it way less than you can? Absolutely! They won't be real steel and real wood but they'll be less then half the price and will probably look pretty good and work fine.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 17, 2007 17:52:21 GMT -5
More questions: 1. If you're going to do the cutsom stocks anyway can you do the shape even more like a Garand? (Thicker and with the more straight angle to the front then the M-14 anda shape that would further hide the shortened clips)? Yes those that suggested that are thinking like I'm thinking. I'm bondoing up a buck to send with just those mods in mind. 2. My DE variation only gets 9 or 10 rounds per shortened clip even though it holds 12. A couple rounds not feeding seems to be the norm with AEGs especially tue with the DE variation for some reason. 3. Can you stick the shortened clips in the garand service belt pockets. This has been answered many times in many threads but once again Yes that was prt of their design intent. They fit just fine.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 11, 2007 22:41:01 GMT -5
I had a question regarding doing a tanker version of the AEG M-14 conversion. One of our members from the UK wanted to take on the project for his 12 year old son who he felt would be more comfortable with a shortened and lighter version of the gun. As you probably know the Tanker Garand was really a sportarized civilian version of the gun and actually never saw service during WW2. In spite of some effort to discourage him, this fellow went ahead and did a truly admirable job with the conversion. The result is there is one more Garand AEG in the UK on the airsoft fields and the one and only Garand Tanker version AEG in the world being wielded by a capable and fierce 12 year old. Here is a recent update from him: Hey John just a quick update: I skirmished with the Garand today and I must say I am absolutely delighted. These chinese guns are very smooth indeed. Even with the shortened barrel it had good range, accuracy and good hitting power. It caused an absolute sensation at the site where I play. My son found it very easy to handle as did I. A few guys had bought the new marui socom but they all preferred the garand conversion. I am going to make another one as I cant pry it from the hands of my son! Great stuff! I pointed as many people as asked to your site I hope it results in lots of orders for you! The gun is an absolute cracker!
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Post by CharleyNovember on Feb 11, 2007 22:44:56 GMT -5
I resembal I say I resembal that remark!
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Cpl. Hicks
Sergeant
Unofficial Flaggrantly Wrong Weapons Policeman
Posts: 1,425
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Post by Cpl. Hicks on Feb 13, 2007 13:32:03 GMT -5
Wow that's great feedback! Just out of curiosity, has there been anything people have mentioned that might be a flaw or are you too careful to let that happen?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 13, 2007 14:29:34 GMT -5
I check the guns I receive over fairly carefully before doing all the work to complete a conversion. Most are fine and require no tweaks or adjustments but as mentioned earlier a batch had crossed wires which I caught and repaired before shipping. Also a couple of the early M-14s had bad shimming and poor lube jobs which required quite a bit of care before use. One gun out of 22 is feeding badly and dramatically underpowered relative to the rest and I haven't had a chance to attend to it I simply haven't used it on a conversion and won't until it's repaired. I would say most of the Chinese M-14s purchased now will be fine with perhaps a 5% flaw rate. I was delighted to hear the guns still shoot straight and hard with a shortened barrel. In looking at his conversion I'm tempted to build a Tanker for my own collection. Very appropriate to rent to a smaller player.
I have another large block of M-14s arriving tomorrow so I'll be busy doing conversions over the next 10 days.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 18, 2007 4:22:01 GMT -5
My latest batch of Chinese clone M-14s arrived two days ago and I have pulled out all six and looked them over and fired them. They literally get tighter and better built with each shipment. The M-14 flash hider orange is bolder and brighter then ever also. I mentioned earlier that I was concerned they weren't technically according to customs specs and luckily they hadn't gotten snagged. Well that certainly isn't going to be an issue now. That part comes off anyway.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 23, 2007 14:36:58 GMT -5
This PM just in from Davejh in the UK
"Sorry for the delay, been a busy time for me, but I finally got off my backside and got some pics of me with the M1 together, i'll send them to you ASAP.
It's served me well, and hasn't let me down. It took a knock or few and everything still feels solid It's a great piece, and is now my #1 primary everyime I skirmish."
Mote: There are now 8 Garands AEGs in the UK. Seemingly all in US AB units!
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azeeze
Private 1st Class
Posts: 622
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Post by azeeze on Mar 3, 2007 22:46:23 GMT -5
How do you age the plastic wood after it's painted? -Nick
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