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Post by burke on Mar 22, 2008 13:47:49 GMT -5
has anybody found a reliable source for these?
2ndbat I would suggest talking to keith as RSOV he's a very reasonable guy and i bet he could get them to you discounted and in large quantities.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 23, 2008 23:25:48 GMT -5
I have a wholesaler I can buy them from (At least for now) I am going to be placing an another order this week for 100 more.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 27, 2008 22:46:58 GMT -5
I got in the most recent batch and have finalized my design and am cranking them out as quickly as I can. I've now sold well over 100 of them converted. I am building up the mag well walls on my own guns and the version two rifles that I produce and sell so my clip production for those guns is greatly simplified. The ones I built and shipped to existing Hooah conversions include the enblock clips since those guns haven't had the walls filled in and the enblocks serve that function. I'll keep making them as long as my enblock clip supply holds up.
The four cuts on the enblock clips is a major pain and no big deal if you make ten of the clips for yourself but challenging and tiresome after your first hundred or so. Be warned, every other clip will burn up a dremel cutting wheel! A more efficient cutting tool is worthwhile if you plan on doing very many of them.
The guns with the side walls built up and the plain but modified clips function slightly better in terms of smooth and effortless loading and reloading. With a 12 round capacity during game play I suspect this is significant.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 30, 2008 0:33:55 GMT -5
I am only going to make four more of the "combat packs" of modified shortened clips and after that am going to focus my attention on the final design which will only work effectively in guns that have the mag walls built up. If you have a Garand conversion and think you want me to make up some clips for you let me know right away. The combat packs consist of six converted clips with modified enblock clips shipped in a six pocket bandoleers. ($96.00)
The newer version clips for my current Garand AEGs will be available in version two combat packs of six clips in a bandoleer for $85.00 plus shipping. I took pictures of the assorted versions and will post them once I get the pictures downloaded.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 30, 2008 23:35:10 GMT -5
Here are a bunch of various clips in the process of being completed. Trying a number of different things: Here is an example of the "Combat pack of six 15 round clips with a bandoleer Together with the 3 clips that come with the gun the combat pack provides the M1 Garand owner with an additional 90 rounds to go with the 45 rounds they start with. This works out to 108 usalbe rounds (each clip consistently fires 12 rounds or so) which is in line with a combat. Together with a couple speed loaders and the Garand AEG is a viable skirmisher without having to use the M14 magazines.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 3, 2008 16:50:41 GMT -5
I just shipped my 300th converted clip! Yikes! I'm seeing these things in my sleep. I'll do up a tutorial showing a couple step by step approaches to take. They are soooo easy to make compared to the original shortened clips I had but still are time consuming and are already getting very monotonous.
They sure are cool though! They slip wonderfully in the carboard folds of the bandoleers and while a little more difficult to pull out of then the Garand belt pouches work really well. The clips are of course smaller (thinner) then an actual Garand enblock clip but they do pooch the bandoleers out very nicely.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 2, 2008 23:33:01 GMT -5
Here is a series of pictures explaining how I do the conversions. I take the flush mounted shotgun clips that are sold under a variety of brands and names but be sure you get the springer clips that are flush mounted and are intended for the 780 series shotgun. They are somewhat hard to find but are carried by RSOV , Evike and others and are typically $5 to $8.00 each. (unmodified and plus shipping) There are probably places you find them even cheaper but I haven't had much luck with them being in stock. The first thing you should do is push the spring nipple down inside so when you shave down the ringed lip you won't cut the nipple push cap. (This is important as otherwise you ruin the clips!) I use a dremel and cut the lip and grind it flush taking care to create a smooth upper surface that is flush with the top of the clip Once the lip is removed I use a pocket knife to remove the flashing (especially inside the feed ring) I then attach a thin band of ABS to create a front tab that can later be shaped. I glue it on using ABS glue and that holds real well. (Drys fairly quickly) Once it's firmly in place and has dried I file it down to the right depth and then use the dremel to cut in a groove that dips nearly to the face of the clip. (This takes some trial and error but eventually you can eyeball guestimate it quite accurately) I then cut the rear groove that will create an indentation for the M14 mag release to slip into and out of. I used the actual M14 magazine as a guide as to how far down from the upper surface each of these cuts needs to be made. Note the tab is added to the front and a groove is cut in the rear which is the opposite of the design on an original magazine but this aligns properly with the feed hole on thse clips. Cut the groove nearly through the wall and create a flap capped "v" Further detail here: It's of course way more efficient to make a whole bunch of them all at one time I usually do them in groups of about 25 at a time Once they reach this point I often paint them using a brass paint (simply for effect) once that dries, I glue a side wall of thin black abs sheeting to create a fake enblock. This fills the gap along the sides inside the mag well and gives the magazines a little more dimension and shape and helps them hold firmly inside the gun I have also used actual cut down enblock clips but found it too time consuming and difficult (Enblock clips are hard to cut) They do look nice however they fit across the bottom not the rear as on a real Garand so it was kind of hokey. I got a little stupid and added bullet graphics on some but again just dinking around. People teased me about them so I decided against it on my current ones which I simply paint in a brass mettalizer finish. They fit nice and flush inside the stock in fact on my version two stocks they are actually recessed and sit fully inside If you have a M-14 to M1 conversion and don't want to hassle with it I sell them in "Combat packs of six clips that I package along with a WW2 cotton bandoleer. The bandoleers include the vintage cardboard inserts and the clips slide nicely in and out and push out the bandoleers nicely. It's a great way to haul your ammo and adds a nice touch to your impression. These combat packs are priced at $86.00.plus shipping. Obviously you can save money building them yourself and hopefully these instructions or the instructions I ship with each rifle will help. I priced my modified clips outrageously so others will be encouraged to make their own and so I won't go crazy making them. Any less and it just doesn't make sense, any more and I'd feel like I was raping people.
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TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
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Post by TommyGunner on Jun 2, 2008 23:37:35 GMT -5
Fantastic as usual, I will be using your method for making mags when I finish my M1 Garand Im working on.
TommyGunner
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Post by lindir on Jul 1, 2008 11:04:12 GMT -5
I received your clips but when they are in I can't remove them. They lock themselves inside and I need to remove the trigger guard to be able to remove them. I have a Marui version. Any solution ? Thanks
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 1, 2008 14:56:32 GMT -5
That's weird. There are apparently minor very subtle differences between the Marui and CYMA and AGM rifles with regard to the magazine release but extremely minor. I suspect a simple case of mild filing with remedy your situation.
Typically they angle lock into place (Like the AK or the original M14 magazine and when empty I push forward on the mag release and apply pressure on the forward base portion of the clip (where the little swoopty shape is) This typically pops the rear portion out and allows you to drop or pinch them right out. I'm guessing the added forward tab is perhaps to thick and is the part that should be filed down. I had one other customer mention feeding problems and come to think of it his rifle was a Marui as well. He filed the front tabs down thinner and they worked fine.
Try it on one and let me know. If it doesn't work or if you prefer I will of course replace them.
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Post by 5thrangerbat on Nov 24, 2008 19:31:19 GMT -5
o.K so i read most of this and was wondering which mag to use? would shotgun mags do it or just keep the M14 mags for awhile? thanks
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Nov 24, 2008 20:36:19 GMT -5
Use the shot gun mags.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 24, 2008 20:51:58 GMT -5
Read once again through this tutorial as I think all your questions should be answered. This isn't rocket science. It isn't written out in cartoon format but there are lots of pictures. Be sure you get the right version of shotgun magazines (Type 870 flush mounts) You can still use regular M14 magazines as well for conventional skirmish games. For WW2 events it's way cooler to have a bunch of the 12 round flush mounted clips. You can build them yourself which is the cheapest way to go or you can buy the clips in six packs complete with a cotton WW2 bandoleer for $86.00 plus shipping.
They aren't hard to make but somewhat time consuming. I make them in batches of 24 or so since getting out all the stuff to do it and doing each step is just about as easy when doing a lot of them as doing four or five. Lately the tough part has been securing the clips themselves in reasonable quantities. The clips themselves are failry cheap but the shipping from HK kills you.
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Post by supernube on Dec 2, 2008 12:56:11 GMT -5
Where are you getting the ABS plastic strips and glue? I am using plexiglass on my mags now and it doesn't work very well. It is too brittle to withstand the process of going in and out of the mag release. I looked at my local hobby store with no luck.
Also, what dimensions are you using?
Thanks
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2008 14:49:48 GMT -5
I have used Styrene plastic that I picked up at a hobby store and cut and attached using a quality general purpose adhesive. For the last batch I purchased sheets of ABS plastic at a Plastic supplier. (You undoubtedly have one in your town or city) The ABS has worked even better and I use ABS cement to hold the sections into place which binds spectacularly. It also provides the material for the front tab. One final advantage is they don't need to be painted as they come in black.
You will see a variety of guages available and I just eye balled what I needed and the choice worked great. It was roughly the thickness of a credit card. (Slightly thicker) It's very reasonable and they will cut a one square foot section for you. I cut my desired shapes with a dremel or a coping saw although you could probably cut it with a heavy duty pair of scissors.
I cut them to a uniform size and shape (Using the shotgun mag as a template) although that is more personal taste than any requirement. They look right and fill the gap that exists between the shotgun clips and the mag well area.
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Post by supernube on Dec 2, 2008 15:42:30 GMT -5
I actually meant the strip on the front, I guess I can try to find a local plastic company.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2008 18:50:14 GMT -5
I use the ABS for both sections. PLastic outlets support an extensive commercial and hobby clientele and there is probably one near you. Try TAP Plastics as they are a national chain.
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Post by supernube on Dec 14, 2008 10:56:26 GMT -5
After several attempts and multiple configurations, I absolutely cannot get theses magazines to feed properly. The only way to get the entire magazine to feed every time is to add pressure from my thumb. This is just unacceptable to me since the whole idea is to make a skirmishable M1.
The problem seems to be that the magazine needs some external pressure to remain absolutely flush inside the magwell. I have ordered a garand trigger housing that I intend to cut down and use to cover the magwell. I was thinking that I could use some dense foam attached to the trigger housing to add the needed pressure on the magazine and correct the feeding problems. The problems with this are that I will have to come up with some sort of latch system to lock the housing in place and an added step in magazine changes (which I really don't mind if it gives me 100% feeding reliability). Any suggestions on the latch system?
A less elegant approach would be to fashion attachment points deep inside of the magwell and add some sort of elastic band (bungee?) to add upward pressure to the magazine. The only disadvantage here is that it would't look as good as option one, but if done right could make mag changes quicker.
The real advantage of either system would be to get rid of the M14 mag catch.
Has anyone had similar troubles and come up with another workaround?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 14, 2008 13:13:57 GMT -5
Are you using the tab in the front or trying to make due without it? If shaped properly the clips latch in and hold nicely and feed just fine. I've occassionally produced some that need additional filing until they taper nicely in the catch at the front of the mag well but once set up they work great. The groove in the rear is less vital than the properly shaped tab added to the front in terms of the clips being effective.
Without a properly shaped and sized front tab the clips have to be held into place with a little pressure in order to feed but with the tab they hold very snugly on their own.
I had thought about a trap door that would hinge from the front and would cover the mag area and I include one with the version twos but from a skirmish perspective while it looks good it is one more thing to have to mess with when reloading
Look carefully at the tabs you've created in the front of the clip and spend your focus there.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 14, 2008 15:05:07 GMT -5
The two mags I currently have were provided to me by Warren at S&S and they do not have a latch at the front but just a dremeled section they hold absolutely fine. I wonder why these work with only some dremel work. They look the same to me but I have not bought the ones John is talking about only seen pictures.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 14, 2008 18:04:21 GMT -5
The BB exit hole is further forward on these shotgun mags than the hole in the M14 magazines which are slightly back from the foreward edge of the magazine. To offset and replicate this the tab added and shaped to the front is critical. This tab is really just a spacer not really a tab.
The somewhat thin, shotgun mags also work better with the added sidewalls as they don't flop around as much in the mag well area. Without the forward tab they work (if you hold them in place with your finger) but this is entirely unneccessary if you shape the right tab up front. The groove channel in the back is far less critical although it allows your mag relase to work as it should. I have found each rifle especially by manufacturer is slightly different so whether its an AGM or CYMA or Marui etc. Each needs to be tweaked slightly to work properly. (simple filling or sanding is all that's needed)
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Post by supernube on Dec 14, 2008 19:36:42 GMT -5
I have the front tab shaped so that when the mag is pressed in it clicks into place just like the m14 mag. There is absolutely no play in the front of the mag where the feed hole is located. They still don't feed correctly. The rear latch will still work, but does not hold the rear of the magazine in tightly and there is no lateral play as I added sidewalls to the gun, not the individual mags.
2nd bat, you got any pics of your hinged trap door design?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 14, 2008 20:06:28 GMT -5
Sounds like the location or depth of your rear groove is the problem. Try filing a little bit there until they click into place with no play. I posted a picture somewhere with it but I'll try to get some new ones up with more detail. I just created a cover that looks like a longish version of the Garand baseplate.
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Post by Meisterschutze on Feb 9, 2009 2:27:22 GMT -5
Hi there!, Does anyone make these shortened mags for classic army m14s?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 10, 2009 4:08:30 GMT -5
No. Not as yet. The CA and G&G mag has a "Z" shape to it where the Marui top is flat. I suspect that the only way to do it well will be to butcher some CA or G&G low cap mags by cutting the upper section out and attaching it to either the shotty mags or some other inexpensive mag. The inner shape of the G&G lowcaps won't allow you to simply shorten them in a way that will work alone.
I have several G&G M14s that I converted to Garands a long time ago and always intended to create flush mounted clips for them but never got around to it. There isn't going to be a cheap or easy way to do it as far as I can tell. If I tackle the project I'll post the "How to." At some point I'm going to have to make five or six flush clips for them but I have been dreading the effort.
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Post by blackeagle on May 28, 2009 22:11:04 GMT -5
Ok so my order from EVIKE has gotten in and i got all 8 of my ACM shotgun magazines for under $60!! Ok so my first impression of these were and i quote 'Holy balls, these suckers are Tiny!!' But i want that so they fit flush with the magwell. I gutted and cut up a Kalash ak Hicap, and took the outside ABS off and Gorrila glued it to the front part of the mag where the Follower pokes up. I then proceeded to file the ring around the follower, and file a slight indent in the rear of the mag so it will catch and stay without falling out. After all that was done i loaded it up and tested it, and just as i expected, it shoots 12 rounds without a single miss feed, might i say Beautiful! Pics in a little
its a little challenging to take it out of the Magwell but its better than the Utg shotty mag i did!
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Post by savage94 on Jun 7, 2009 8:57:33 GMT -5
2nd bat, do you sell them separately ?
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Post by savage94 on Jun 13, 2009 8:56:37 GMT -5
is anyone there ?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 1, 2009 18:13:19 GMT -5
I do sell pre-done finished conversions in bandleers of six clips for $86.00 shipping. I am currently back ordered however as I have been unable to secure sufficient base clips to convert. When the availability frees up and I get caught up with my own backorders I'll announce that I have some.
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Post by Canning on Jul 30, 2009 16:10:36 GMT -5
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