Seff
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Post by Seff on Mar 11, 2008 18:01:10 GMT -5
I have a few questions about the design and function of the Garand (RS, not AEG or Marushin)
* Does the bolt travel straight back into the receiver, or does it go downward when open? * Is the strength of the operating spring on more or less the same strength/resistance as a AEG spring (think spring BA rifle), or more/less? * Is the handle thick enough to accommodate an AEG motor?
This is for a project I have been contemplating for a while now - a way to make a reverse gearbox that opens to accommodate realistic loading.
Principle of the gearbox: * open bolt manually: this will push back the piston, which hooks on the trigger and is held, while the cylinder is held back by the bolt lock. * Insert clip, which disengages bolt lock = bolt & cylinder travel forward again by power of the operating spring, covering the clip and stripping a bb up into the hop-up chamber. * A subsequent pull of the trigger releases the piston = shot! Also connected to the trigger is a electric contact, which AFTER the shot immediately cycles the gears a turn. The gears grip the cylinder (as opposed to the piston on conventional designs) and thereby pulls bolt, cylinder and piston back, until the piston once again is hooked by the trigger - where after the bolt and cylinder are pulled forward by the operating spring. * Repeat for another 7 shots :-) *when the last shot is fired, the bolt lock mechanism will lock back the bolt & cylinder, leaving the receiver open for the clip to eject (optional feature). The absence of a clip will disengage the electric system, allowing the soldier to hold the bolt, push the bolt lock mechanism, and thereby close the bolt. Pulling the trigger at this point will only release the piston, not reload the gun, leaving the gun relaxed.
Whew, did that make sense to anyone?
The optional ejection of the clip is planned because I can imagine that some people might not want to have to catch their clips to keep them :-P
Expecting the clip to be full size is optimistic, but there will hopefully be room for one about 2/3 size.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Mar 11, 2008 19:37:45 GMT -5
The bolt rotates and then travels on a slight downward angel. The Op spring has a lot more resistance then the spring of a Bolt action rifle i would say. The handle is definitely large enough to accomadate an m14 motore, as its thicker then the M14 stock.. though i will say.. if you tear up a working M1 for this though i will kill you ;-) lol 2nd bat does have those nice hollywood m1's
Sounds like this will be a very tough project, and you will have to do ALOT of cutting. But i wish you luck on it.
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Mar 12, 2008 3:16:26 GMT -5
The bolt rotates and then travels on a slight downward angel. The Op spring has a lot more resistance then the spring of a Bolt action rifle i would say. The handle is definitely large enough to accomadate an m14 motore, as its thicker then the M14 stock.. though i will say.. if you tear up a working M1 for this though i will kill you ;-) lol 2nd bat does have those nice hollywood m1's Sounds like this will be a very tough project, and you will have to do ALOT of cutting. But i wish you luck on it. As long as the bolt travels on a straight path, I don't have a problem. My worry with the spring power was that I would inadvertently make the Garand too hard to load if, no worries then This isn't a project for myself, it's a plan for a design that I will either sell or produce myself. I will probably have to get a Garand at some point to get this working, but the idea is to make a receiver from scratch, either CNC'd or cast. No butchering of these old beauties!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 12, 2008 15:44:59 GMT -5
You sir are looking at one amazingly challenging plan. I wish you well and fear I'll be dead before you finish it.
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Mar 12, 2008 15:46:56 GMT -5
I'd have to beat myself to death if I didn't give it my best shot EDIT: on that note, does anyone know the cheapest place to get a Garand receiver, I don't care if it's a re-weld, I just need the dimensions for the footwork. Also, I believe some kind of extensive 3D modelling work is needed before I can have somebody CNC the first gearbox, right?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 12, 2008 19:12:23 GMT -5
Typically the Garand receiver groups are not sold seperately. As mentioned I can get these Hollywood Garands for $350.00 a piece and frankly that would probably be your cheapest route to the base components you need. Not just the receiver group but the other key components as well. Certainly you could get from them all the dimensions you need and whacking them all up wouldn't ruin an existing functional piece of history.
I'm not sure what the ramifications are for shipping one to Denmark so obviously that's something you'd need to thoroughly research.
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Post by m5a11943 on Mar 12, 2008 19:13:56 GMT -5
This sounds like a project I would love to tackle. Please keep a running record of eveything you do. I think this is really going to work well. I'm a mechanical design engineer for over 20 years. PM me anytime on this one. I really want to watch and help with your progress.
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YankeeDiv26
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Post by YankeeDiv26 on Mar 12, 2008 19:18:47 GMT -5
wow. first off good luck on this project, I hope for the best.
Another thing you may want to consider is using a Korean war era m1 stock instead of a WWII era one, the handle on the Korean War m1's are slightly wider/larger than that of those made in WWII. It's hardly noticable butit may give you those few extra mm's you might need. They can also be had for cheaper than a WWII era stock.
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Mar 12, 2008 19:39:41 GMT -5
Typically the Garand receiver groups are not sold seperately. As mentioned I can get these Hollywood Garands for $350.00 a piece and frankly that would probably be your cheapest route to the base components you need. Not just the receiver group but the other key components as well. Certainly you could get from them all the dimensions you need and whacking them all up wouldn't ruin an existing functional piece of history. I'm not sure what the ramifications are for shipping one to Denmark so obviously that's something you'd need to thoroughly research. The Danish rules for deacts is permanently killing the bolt, as well as cutting the barrel along its entire length Certainly possible, but also very limiting. After these modifications it should be legal for me to import and own. I'll speak to the authorities about this, as well as trying to procure the funds. Can I get you to hold one back for me? This sounds like a project I would love to tackle. Please keep a running record of eveything you do. I think this is really going to work well. I'm a mechanical design engineer for over 20 years. PM me anytime on this one. I really want to watch and help with your progress. Now THIS sounds like a lucky break - I'll send you over my fantasy drawings once I get them done, then you can criticize them I have the entire mechanism figured out - my hurdle is procuring materials and somewhere to test the theory and make the needed adjustments. My main worry is stuff like how much added strain cycling the bolt will place upon the gears an motor - reports of Marushin Garands shooting themselves to pieces come to mind wow. first off good luck on this project, I hope for the best. Another thing you may want to consider is using a Korean war era m1 stock instead of a WWII era one, the handle on the Korean War m1's are slightly wider/larger than that of those made in WWII. It's hardly noticable butit may give you those few extra mm's you might need. They can also be had for cheaper than a WWII era stock. Noted And thank you, I am confident in my fanaticism towards this project
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Post by m5a11943 on Mar 13, 2008 12:26:41 GMT -5
Hey Seff could you shed alittle light on something? At the risk of sounding uneducated, educate me. What is an RS Garand? I look forward to what you have to send. I too have been very put out by the preformance of the Maurshin It is only good as a wall hanger! By the way I have Danish Blood in me
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TommyGunner
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Post by TommyGunner on Mar 13, 2008 12:32:41 GMT -5
RS just short for Reall Steel.
TommyGuner
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Mar 13, 2008 14:00:21 GMT -5
Hey Seff could you shed alittle light on something? At the risk of sounding uneducated, educate me. What is an RS Garand? I look forward to what you have to send. I too have been very put out by the preformance of the Maurshin It is only good as a wall hanger! By the way I have Danish Blood in me Danish blood? Good stuff, isn't it? J/K RS is, as TommuGunner said, an abbreviation of Real Steel, a common airsofting term for a real gun I am downloading a 3D modelling program as we speak, to try and create it there for you
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Apr 11, 2008 20:21:12 GMT -5
Right, with Solidworks 2008 + Cosmos on the way, I need info on the size of the Garand receiver: Length, meaning from the furthest back to the furthest forward the bolt goes Whit, under the wood-line (on the four legs) Height, From bottom of legs to under bolt, and from bottom of legs to middle of barrel/bore/chamber. I'll supply an illustration if necessary, in case someone is confused Thanks for the help
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Oct 7, 2008 16:11:46 GMT -5
Hey Seff, have you progressed at all with this project?
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Oct 8, 2008 7:06:36 GMT -5
None at all, as I can't get hold of a real Garand to measure :?
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Oct 8, 2008 9:57:48 GMT -5
I know someone who could give you the measurements you need.
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Oct 8, 2008 16:45:28 GMT -5
Thank you, but I doubt it'd be enough. I need a lot of time in a machine-shop crafting parts, and the idea has lost much of its attraction after CO2 was legalized for use in Airsoft here. A CO2 driven Garand in 6mm would be easier to make, and much, much more realistic.
I still have the entire thing thought out and working in my head, but transferring it to paper is nigh impossible. I could try though.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Oct 8, 2008 17:13:54 GMT -5
Ok hopefully they'll make a 6mm M1 Garand.
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Post by tinydata on Oct 8, 2008 18:13:41 GMT -5
I definitely think a Co2 Garand would be much easier than your custom gearbox idea.
My Marushin's biggest drawback is green gas in a small internal tank. If you managed to get a GBB mechanism with clip ejection and bolt locking to work, you could simply attach to system to an external tank
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Oct 9, 2008 3:14:22 GMT -5
Screw that, the Garand has a HUGE buttstock that has plenty of room for a sizeable CO2 container.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 9, 2008 23:46:48 GMT -5
So the Co2 will give you the added canister size needed to facilitate a reasonable number of shots on a single fill. Now if only the Marushin would present itself as reasonably easy enough to rapidly reload (It is way harder and more persnickety than a real Garand) and stay together without failure for a hundred or more shots without requiring maintenance and tinkering with. Unfortunately even with a CO2 adapted it is still just a cool backyard plinker.
Cool gun but definitely NOT skirmishable. Maybe I'm wrong and the newest designs are significantly better and more durable and reliable but I don't think so.
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Oct 10, 2008 4:13:39 GMT -5
I have heard rumors about the SI version being better, but I have no idea how much better.
I wonder if a more durable (Aluminum or steel instead of a crappy zink-auminum mix) design powered by CO2 would be plausible to produce. I agree that it should reload like the real thing rather than a finger-safe fishy mechanism.
Maybe I should contact D-boys about that...
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Oct 10, 2008 10:34:05 GMT -5
Well the SI version is better it shoots harder and uses green gas but it still requires heavy maintenance, still has the finger-safe mech and all that junk.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 11, 2008 0:36:49 GMT -5
I just found the clip loads were way way too awkward and even with a great deal of practice was too cumbersome for an eight shot semi auto weapon. That being the case even if the gas reservoir and reliability of the moving parts could accomodate several hundred shots in sequence without repairs (highly unlikely based on my experience) the loading process would still prvent it form being usable in a game (unfortunately) If someone has found otherwise please say so.
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Post by tinydata on Oct 14, 2008 20:00:49 GMT -5
I think that you could get someone to CNC some nice, solid parts for the Marushin. But there's still no other GBB M1. There is, of course 2ndBat's fine AEG conversion. For realism freaks though, the bottom loading part is unacceptable.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 16, 2008 13:08:12 GMT -5
We'll all hold our breath while you find someone to CnC the needed parts. It would of course be a marvelous thing that I'd love to see but realistically...it's not going to happen. I suppose it doesn't hurt to dream and hope.
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