|
Post by ncthorn on Jul 12, 2008 14:48:54 GMT -5
I would suspect that a full lock-bar sight setup will run you $100+. Most of us real steel collectors favor these over other designs as they tightly secure the rear sight to prevent movement from recoil. Additionally, collectors like them because they are the correct sight for midwar rifle examples. However, this was a mid WWII upgrade (which was also discontinued at approximately the 4.2 million range) and many early rifles would not have had the locking bar feature so the M14 rear sight is close enough for these rifles.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 12, 2008 16:09:24 GMT -5
I find it best to represent a rifle that would be appropriate for any period of the war and it sounds like no site lock would be the way to go. Obviously with that kind of cost it would be best to offer it as an option which I'm doubtful most airsoft buyers would stepup for. (Can't say I blame them.) Last time I shot one of my Garand airsoft AEGs (yesterday in fact) the recoil was pretty minimal! Thanks for the info Ncthorn I have attached a simple tiny metal clip that looked quite good and screwed on like an actual Bar lock. Like anything it simply took time to fabricate and figure out. Not something I want to do to every gun especially now that I learn it wasn't an absolute on WW2 Garands
|
|
|
Post by ncthorn on Jul 12, 2008 22:30:56 GMT -5
Im glad I could help you out. Even though I no longer own any airsoft weapons, I enjoy popping back on here from time to time to help someone out. My love for real firearms was boosted by my times with airsoft. Additionally, I still collect WWII militaria and use this site for kit building help. Seeing as how many of the folks on here are looking to make their airsoft rifles as close to real steel as possible and realizing that over the past couple of years I have accumulated not only a respectible, growing WWII arms collection but also a good amount of knowledge in WWII small arms, I figure my help will be appreciated. Now as for the beginning of lock-bar sight usage, I cannot quote the exact serial range off the top of my head but with a quick search I am sure I could find it. Even though most WWII rifles had lock-bars, the important part is that early rifles did not have this feature and thus it is not entirely necessary on an airsoft impression.
|
|
|
Post by HellRazor on Jul 13, 2008 1:03:30 GMT -5
I've often wondered why they added the lock bars in the first place. My real Garand, produced by springfield in Nov. of 43, does not have them and I've put several hundred round through it in a day, and never had any issues with my site picture. Perhaps with the beating of combat in combination with the recoil (my Garand gets treated like a baby afterall) it would cause problems.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 13, 2008 1:19:03 GMT -5
I can see where with the rigors of combat a lock bar would be worthwhile but I for one consider it a trivial item with regards to an airsoft replica. Certainly something someone far more obsessed with detail could add themselves if they wanted to.
|
|
|
Post by ncthorn on Jul 13, 2008 12:25:03 GMT -5
Hellrazor: Your M1 actually would have initially had lock-bar sights. 1943 is smack dab in the middle of lock-bar usage but your rifle would have been updated to the later sight design during postwar refurbishment. The postwar non-lockbar design does not have issues with losing zero that the early non-lockbar design apparently had. I was fortunate that my January 1945 Garand from CMP has lockbars and I love them but agree that they are unnecessary on an airsoft replica.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 13, 2008 14:31:21 GMT -5
It appears to be a simple screw on, section of metal that once in place holds the left / right adjustment firmly in place? While few people actually zero their airsoft weapons and the lack of precise accuracy provided by a spherical projectile and the limited ranges we shoot at makes it pretty silly it is cool that with the M14/ M1 rear site you can adjust for windage and elevation. Since everyone has a slightly different spot weld when they aim it is marginally wortwhile. At Battlesims Bootcamp they do learn marksmanship and do get everyone to zero their weapons and their shot groupings even at 50 feet do adjust. I for one think it's cool that the sight on most airsoft rifles adjust. Elevation is especially critical as once you factor a typical engagement range you can factor in the anticipated amount of drop (Or rise) and set your sites accordingly.
|
|
|
Post by ncthorn on Jul 13, 2008 15:02:17 GMT -5
While the actual lockbar is simply a section of metal that screws on to the sight pinion, the sight is designed so that tightening the lockbar prevents sight movement for both windage and elevation. This is because tightening the bar tightens up both knobs on the pinion which in turn prevents movement. Since the pinions are different, you cant really combine features of the lockbar and postwar sights. For visual purposes, it may be possible to cheaply fabricate a bar which could be fitted to the airsoft sight which would look the part since the true locking function isnt really imperative. I do agree with you 2ndbat that sight adjustments are a nice feature to have on airsoft weapons so that accuracy may be fine tuned to compensate for the presence of hopup and side to side movement of bbs in flight.
|
|
Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
|
Post by Sgt_Tom on Aug 18, 2008 21:47:36 GMT -5
Hey 2nd Bat! About the lock bar sights, I found a place where you can get them for $9.95! So you could make it an option on you M1 Garands. Here it is scroll down to the bottom. >> www.reesesurplus.com/miscellaneous.html
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 13, 2008 20:05:52 GMT -5
Version Twos available on a limited case basis. All wood, properly shaped lower stock. Way more Garand components built on a CYMA base M14 or Marui. I strongly recommend the CYMA as from a value proposition it is extraordinary.
The Version Two complete rifle with three shortened clips and clear instructions on how to make more is $795.00 plus shipping. A marui based complete rifle is $995.00. I have sold six and plan to build two a month as that is all I can manintain in terms of current production ability. I still build the version ones and they are available for $495.00 plus shipping.
UPDATED NOTE: I no longer offer the kits, version one or as described version two rifles. Go through this entire thread to get a full and current update on my offerings. This build process has extended over five years now and get's a bit confusing.
|
|
|
Post by burke on Sept 15, 2008 19:31:33 GMT -5
Would you sell me one of your early garand blank stocks cheap? Im okay with the flaws as its still closer than an M14.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 2, 2008 17:04:38 GMT -5
Your question is unclear so please just PM me for the answer. The actual M1 Garand stocks I attempted to convert DON'T WORK for the conversion. I patched them up and made non functioning dummy Garands with them. You can buy actual Garand stocks at gun shows quite cheaply (25.00 to 50.00) They do not readily work for the conversion however.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 26, 2009 13:38:40 GMT -5
This thread was sorely in need of an update. I still build and sell full conversions on a custom basis and have currently (as of this writing in Sept 2009) built and sold 260 conversions in assorted variants. I took a brief break to make some tweaks and enhancements and sort out serious supplier issues. I also had to catch up with backorders. I have revised the offering to a streamlined and simplified offering. The current and ONLY offering is a fully converted AEG Garand using a CYMA 032 as a base rifle. It represents the best value in my opinion although they were out of the market for several months which generated a real challenge for me and my customers. They fire at an impressive 360+ FPS with .20 gram BBs and feature an excellent tightbore barrel and very well done hop up (For a Marui Clone). My current offering features an augmented custom built lower stock that is properly shaped to represent an M1 Garand and decidely seperates my conversion from an M14 or my earlier offerings. In addition I eliminate the selector switch and provide a rifle that fires semi auto only. (Customers may ask that I leave the selector switch in place which is the only tweak to an otherwise consistent offering.) I remove the charging handle brace and adapt the M14 receiver group to provide a closer match to an M1 Garand. The lower stock is finished in a Dark Walnut finish to match the handguards and most closely mimic a typical Military issue Garand from WW2. The gas reservoir assembly is modified to fit and the butt plate is properly shaped and finished. Expect the stocks and handguards to show light field use which is done deliberately to provide a more authentic appearance and better match. The metal parts are finished to mirror the mixed metal appearance of field Garands. In many cases theyt are simply left original as frankly it can't get any more authentic than that! The hardness of the assorted metals held the parkerization differently and wore at a non uniform rate hence the variation in finish. The price is $560.00 plus shipping. I ship in the US with Fed Ex and the cost varies from 16.00 on the west coast to 22.00 to the East Coast. I ship internationally via USPost as it is the least expensive carrier. I provide the Customs declaration number to use for tracking. The cost varies depending on location. I have sold well over 130 rifles overseas. The UK currently costs 62.00 (Up $7.00 from last year) Eastern Europe and Scandanavia are slightly higher. Each rifle comes with 3, 12 round flush mounted clips. These fit nicely in the Garand 10 pocket belt or bandoleers. The rifle also comes with a battery and charger although these are the stock Chinese items and should be upgraded. (8.4 1200 Mah) (Act more like 600 Mah) In addition I ship with an unjamming rod and a custom owners manual made to look like a 1943 Field Manual. It includes care and maintenance tips along with disassembly instructions and clear instructions on how to make additional flush mounted clips. These are time consuming and somewhat labor intense but not especially hard and can be built for a materials cost of around 6.00 each Options include spare "combat packs" of six clips I convert for you in a cotton bandoleer for $86.00. Other options include a leather WW2 style sling at $28.00 and a padded OD canvas zippered case for the rifle for $29.00. A replica of the issue case from WW2. (Padded with a quality zipper and heavy duty canvas) I build roughly five a month and typically require 3 weeks from receipt of funds to shipment. Occassionally delays are longer due to supplier issues or my work schedule and backorders. Check first for an estimated delivery prediction. I may be paid via Cashiers Check or Money Order and also accept PayPal although I require a 3% handling fee for PayPal purchases. Ultimately I hope a major manufacturer will offer a quality and authentic M1 Garand in an Auto Electric and build these primarily as a means to support the hobby and encourage others to build their own and save the money I must charge to make the time required to do them make sense. I use components from ACTUAL Military issued M1 Garands and each of my rifles is in it's own way a piece of history that can be used on an airsoft field. The components are modified slightly to accomodate fit and the needed bracketry. The gas reservoirs should NOT be used in a real weapon nor should any of the modified parts.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 4, 2009 2:42:52 GMT -5
The above post still represents the latest and most current information about this product. As of this date (November 2009) I have delivered 282 Rifles and have six in production of which four are pre-sold. There is now just the one version and the only custom request is to leave the selector switch in place. Otherwise they are removed.
The optional combat pack of spare clips is dependant on availability as the supply of base clips is inconsistent at best.
|
|
|
Post by sonnysonny on Nov 4, 2009 21:38:36 GMT -5
You MUST rename this "2nd Bat's 2nd bat at a M1 Garand AEG"
|
|
|
Post by sarge12 on Nov 4, 2009 23:37:26 GMT -5
LOL Sonny Sonny
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 7, 2009 20:17:17 GMT -5
I have had several people ask me about past rifles that I may or may not have built originally. It seems most everyones M14 conversion is referred to as a "2nd Bats M1 Garand AEG" That's very flattering of course but for every Garand I've made (Currently at 292 rifles) I suspect that many or more have been made by private parties. My earliest efforts were embarrassignly sophmoric by todays standards so even if you get a rifle I made if it's an early effort it is not representative of my current offerings.
I do occassionally get questions about specific customers rifles and truthfully I'm not able in most cases to reflect back and provide information about what base rifle was used, whether or not it was upgraded oreven in some cases if I'm the one who built it. Some have changed hands several times.
By in large given the number of rifles out there very few have been resold which I take as a great compliment to the designs and build. If you do see one available and it appears to be well done (no matter who did it) and appears well cared for it's probably a great buy compared to brand new and the best deal is you won't have to wait the 3 to four weeks one typically has to wait for mine.
It is still my desire that a quality Chinese company will step up with a decent Garand offering and put me out of the custom Garand business so I can focus on something else.
|
|
|
Post by sarge12 on Dec 9, 2009 18:43:25 GMT -5
Hey guys, I just sent an E-mail to cybergun to convince them to make an AEG Garand, don't worry I know how to send a business letter, but I'm just one person so I think if we all E-Mail we might be able to get them to make one.
|
|
CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
|
Post by CptJericho on Dec 9, 2009 19:31:01 GMT -5
good idea, it probably wont work but what the heck lets try it. can you post the email address of cybergun?
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 9, 2009 19:53:43 GMT -5
It definitely won't hurt anything and might be just what is needed to tip a manufacturer the right way. A Garand (In my opinion) would be the single most improtant contributor to the growth of WW2 airsoft at the present time if it was skirmishable, reasonably authentic, relibale and priced in line with other AEG full length rifles. Hopefully it will happen while I am still on this earth!!!!
I'd love to have the capacity to do these things in volume and create the kind of cool tweaks that could really enhance the offerings. (Early war single slotted gas plug, Sight locks, the early war slotted handguard clip and all the most desireable and collectible details and replicated pieces. (It would be cool if the BB clips could be made to look similar to enblock clips) A full wood option would be awesome. (I continue to dream...)
|
|
CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
|
Post by CptJericho on Dec 9, 2009 20:34:24 GMT -5
yeah make the clip more of a rectangle instead of the metal part of the enbloc clip like marushin did. one way you could make it still load in through the top is if part of the barrel is in the clip |Piston--|-Clip-|----Barrel----|
|
|
|
Post by sarge12 on Dec 9, 2009 21:50:52 GMT -5
Send a meesage here , but say "I'm from the US, "but state that you are a part of the WW2AA forum so they know it isn't me again. www.softairusa.com/
|
|
|
Post by sarge12 on Dec 9, 2009 21:54:10 GMT -5
once you get to the webpage go to the "Corporate" section and go to "Contact" tell as many people that are part of this forum as you can.
|
|
CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
|
Post by CptJericho on Dec 9, 2009 23:03:28 GMT -5
you ought to start a thread about sending them emails to make an m1 garand.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 1:56:05 GMT -5
2nd bat... your work is amazing, keep it up you've really done a great thing for the community!
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 12, 2009 0:05:51 GMT -5
I was sure it would be, at most, a 18 month deal as I was sure one of the major companies would hop to and get one made. Now almost six years later they still haven't which is crazy. It exciting to have met so many folks around the world through the sale of my rifles and I continue to crank them out from time to time. I have five pending deliveries now on guns that are otherwise finished except for a nagging performance issue that needs to be resolved. I had to bring them to my local shop for them to sort out as I couldn't figure it out.
Usually things go smoothly and as expected and sometimes the God of production makes me crazy. The current build design has not netted out since I stated receiving the last two batches of CYMA m14s. I need to rethink how I do things or what I charge. Arrrrrghhhhh!!!!
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 24, 2009 13:24:33 GMT -5
The issue with the trigger housing on this last batch was sorted out and while the shop explained what was happening it is frankly greek to me. They all work fine and that's the main thing. A bitch that I had to pay someone else to get things working but I couldn't figure it out. They are all boxed and shipped (between a week and 10 days later than promised) Sorry about that. I got some additional work on molding some of the parts which will allow me to offer an even less expensive version. (The recruit edition) It will start at $425.00 and will feature a replica set of handguards and a replica gas assembly (In place of the modified real steel parts I use now) I am also shipping the rifles with the selector switch left in place unless specifically asked to remove and cover it over. This should help some folks afford a Garand AEG
I should have a bunch done up by mid January and took pictures of some finished Recruit editions yesterday which I'll post up. They came out real nice. A friend helped me with the molds and visually very little is given up as they produce incredible parts details. Rubber molds however have a limited life cycle so I don't at present know how many parts I'll be able to produce but the Recruit edition will be a limited run.
(perhaps 20 rifles?) Incidently with no marketing except existing customers I have four sold already so if it's something you're interested in let me know.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 3, 2010 15:28:43 GMT -5
I plan to cut back somewhat on the amount of time I am putting into this effort so I can focus on other projects and deal with regualr work commitments which hopefully will ramp up in 2010. The plan is to perhaps do 2 to four rifles a month instead of four to eight. In a perfect world the Chinese will come out with a quality AEG Garand and BAR and I can shift my focus to Carbine, Grease gun. Stoner 63 and SKS which are also on the docket.
|
|
|
Post by mcshine2 on Jan 8, 2010 11:26:47 GMT -5
Hey guys! thanks for your tips I finally finished my own M1 Garand conversion from an M14 China AEG. I followed all the tips I got from this forum. It may not look as good as what you guys make but I am happy with the outcome. Here it is ;D :
|
|
Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
|
Post by Sgt_Tom on Jan 8, 2010 13:15:33 GMT -5
Very nice! Nice stock. The bondo turned out really nice. Its great that you went the extra step of building up the stock, it looks amazing.
|
|