Rifle grenade - Possible?

[kangaxxter]

Rifle grenades were used extensively in ww1 and ww2, before the advent of grenade lauchers. I was thinking about building one but I want to run the basic schematic by somebody with experience. basically its a CO2 Rocket on the end of a rifle, fired by a lets say a BB making a hole in the side of a co2 tank.

i'll post a basic drawing of it later.

[Medic]

Wouldn't that be really dangerous? Puncturing a can of compressed air?? In WWI they used blank rounds I believe, so maybe you could look into using something like that.

The only way to do such a thing is pyrotechnics, using something like a bottle rocket, but that comes with inherent risks to the gun, not to mention fire in a probable woodland area. I see what you are trying to do, but it probably won't work.

Ideas such as compressing the grenade itself, putting BBs in a separate chamber, and pulling the pin, making the C02/Nitrogen inside blow into the gun's barrel. But that will damage the inside of the gun. I think, as far as I know, you should stick to Rocket Launchers, Grenades, and Mortars

[kangaxxter]

no, no, not a can of compressed air, some sort of resivour(? spelled wrong, sound it out). I was in a rush when i typed it and didn't think it trough. Right now i'm looking at a party balloon inside of another party balloon. (a single balloon doesn't havethe structural strength.) Puncturing a can of compressed air is crazy, and it looks awesome but I'd never want to be that close to something like that ever again.

as for damaging the gun, i intend to use a grenade with a spring rifle, and since its not like a full can of CO2 I think/hope that would dampen any major damage. I also plan to test it on one of my older, crappier guns so no big loss if it doesn't work.

it's true that in ww1 and ww2 the us used blank rounds, but there were other models that catch the bullet or had a hole that let the bullet through. I'm first trying a bullet-catch model, and later I'll move on to other ways.

[blitz]

You could try this, not WWII, but im sure you could make it look ww2ish
www.airsoftpost.com/product_info.php?products_id=24898

[kangaxxter]

hey thats pretty cool! It's close to what I'm trying to make, but as you said, it's not ww2. I wish i could use it though!

[Medic]

All you need is a shell to put over it, that's pretty easy. serviceofsupply.com/ReproWeaponsAmmo.htm

[YankeeDiv26]

Just an FYI. I've seen one of those airsoft rifle grenades before and they work like total junk based on what I've seen. It would kinda ruin the concept of a rifle grenade to. Instead of propelling a rifle considerable distance it would just shoot a giant spray of BB's.

<YD>

[2nd Bat]

The concept of the mosscart grenade is sound although I believe you'd want to set it up with the type that shoots the foam rockers instead of the giant shotgun effect. A major manufacturer would be quite capable of building something that would be visually excellent using the concept but sadly our market is way too limited for them to put out the development costs.

The cool things about the Mossacart concept is just like a WW2 rifle grenade these could be screwed on the barrel tip of a rifle and the BB itself strikes the primer on the mosscart and sets it off. The Mosscarts unlike CO2 projectiles with a ball valve, do not require a substantial barrel length to create the pressure you need to provide reasonable range. It would appear that something could be adapted that would be suitable. My guess is you could launch a plastic grenade shaped projectile about 80 feet fairly readily. It would be worth messing around with.

[biged]

Madbull made one for the M4/M16. There is a special adapter flash hider that screwed onto the end of your barrel.
The special proprietary grenade could then be quickly attached, fired and removed.

It sucked. Sometimes more then one shot was necessary to trigger it.
You can discharge grenades in your hand with the same results.

///ed///

[kangaxxter]

Alright, I've set up a technical mock-up of what I'm trying to do. (pics soon)

it's constructed out of a couple of balloons and a empty toliet paper roll. plus an adaptor to fit the rifle and a cheap plastic nozzle. I've sealed the insides with wax to make it more air tight. (i'm going for cheap as I'm gonna blow it up.) I'm gonna test it this afternoon.

btw here is the plan I promised i'd show:
i346.photobucket.com/albums/p438/kangaxxter/AirsoftRiflegrenadeplanpropulsionsy.jpg

[kangaxxter]

Okay that was a bust... literally.
I found out that the bb's i was using didn't have the stopping power to puncture the two balloons. So I switched to a single balloon, filled with air. then bad things happened. when I tried to shoot it, the grenade exploded at the tip of my rifle, blowing the top of the grenade off (it was made of cardboard). And it also destroyed all of my wax seals, so the main body(TP tube) just slide down my rifle.

AAR:
I think I made a really cheap BB shower grenade, I'll have to test that. I think what I'll do is use my friends gas pistol and try the "firing a blank round" style grenade. My only problem with that is Rifle Grenades were fired by a charge that was designed to shoot a 10 g projectile accurately a kilometer away and an airsoft rifle fires a .2 g projectile 200 yards away. The difference in power is just to severe. I'm thinking that making one of these grenades for cheap is not possible.

[kangaxxter]

actually (i'm looking at it right now) I think it was a structural problem. You see I used wax seals because they break apart easily so when it hit something- "boom" it explodes. But I don't think they have the strength to withstand the launch recoil.

[Medic]

Okay, here's my idea:

i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/AirsoftMarine15/Grenade-AS.jpg?t=1216329039

Very complicated: you have a small little disc, with a bead at the end, a 12 g C02 tank, and the grenade. When you fire the BB, the disc (which is curved weakly to a cone) will pop in the other direction, making the bead go into the 12 G C02 tank, setting it off. That will hit the grenade and hopefully make it fly.

It would have to be tightly on for that to work, so no C02 escapes. I think, if the grenade had a hard back, it'd work.

[kangaxxter]

That might work, but I'm thinking a thumb tac work instead of the bead/cone device. I've actually seen that been done on model "rocket" cars and they go for a pretty good distance, sometimes getting airbourne. But I won't be able to buy any CO2 bottles until Tuesday at the earliest. Thanks.

Heres my new design-
The plan for the impact fuse is to use something like the bottom part of a push-popattached to another push-pop bottom so when the one out in front of the grenade is struck, all the force is transfered through the inside of the grenade instead of the outside, making the 'warhead' explode.

[Medic]

That looks good, but you have to make sure the sides of the grenade are strong, but they collapse when the impact fuse is set off. You should also kind of compress it inside the grenade so the BBs will fly farther than just "spilling" on to the ground.

[kangaxxter]

Reply to medic:
The Balsa wood braces i built seemed to keep the sides pretty strong, but the part around the bb's are intended to be destroyed on impact. But the Impact fuse and warhead design in general I cut out from the Version 2 grenade, it's too flimsy and complicated.


About the V2 Grenade (oh, god. thats not what I mean!) VERSION 2 Grenade:

All right, I got the CO2 and built this bad boy on Tuesday, but I couldn't fire it off until yesterday. My first impression of it is that it's WAAAAY too bottom heavy, and I wasn't sure if that would affect flight characteristics, (if it had any at all). I also used a few cotton balls to brace the CO2 bottle, and reduce any 'launch shock' that destroyed my first attempt. The tal fins I made out of the back of a used notebook, and the cardboard that held the thumbtack came for the backs of an old school binder. I left out the "Warhead" in the design; I made it, then I thought that it wasn't gonna do anything but make some noise. I replaced it with just .12bbs. the 'Impact fuse' (stupid idea to begin with) also got scrapped, replaced with a small cardboard circle. The braces I carved out of balsa wood and I used a little mosquito netting over the nozzle to keep any debris from falling down the barrel. This time I put it together with hot glue.

THE LAUNCH: (out of ten, one being epic/catastrophic failure, ten being perfect launch) 7.5
Pretty sucessful, all that weight in the bottom did not effect the launch. It shot off the end of my Airsoft gun exactly when I pulled the trigger, got maybe 20, 30 ft in the air, and came down about 15 ft in front of me. I was actually surprised that it did not get destroyed during the launch! Unfortunately that sucess was not shared in the landing. instead of flipping upside-down and landing nose first the wieght in the bottom pulled the grenade down with it. Almost complete destruction upon impact; the tailfins were destroyed, unrecoverable, as were the balsa wood braces, the impact shattered one against the ground and the others against the CO2 bottle, the thumbtack was bent out of shape, but it was easily fixed. The hot glue keep all the bbs from escaping on impact but every thing slid out the opposite end when I picked it up. It was a sad way for this sucessful endeavor to end.

AAR:
This design met 2 of the 3 objectives that I was going for (launch, flight, impact), and I'm sure that this is what any furthur designs will be based off of. It was launched in a way matching a ww2 rifle grenade, and maintain flight accordingly, unfortunately it dooesn't seem to have the necessary power to carry much more than a ten to twelve gram payload, as it seemed to pushed trying to get airbourne. (its hard to explain but I took a video on my camera so you'll see what I mean). Unfortunately, I am out of casings (toliet paper rolls) and I'm going away for a week so I won't be using any tp at home so it may be a while before I can get Version Three up and launching. I also don't have any Ideas to cut weight off of it, I was already using cheap lightwieght materials. As with most rockets, most of the wieght comes from the propellant (CO2 bottle), so i'm not sure how to cut it down.

I know i've been promising pics but I can't find the usb cable for my camera (the camera that has all the pictures uses a USB mini, while all my other devices use regular USB).

[godo]

I've actually been working on a similar project. However instead of launching the whole thing, it launches tennis balls or a bb shower if you choose.
Here's my idea:
Use a Caribou Iced Coffee Can for the shape of the M9A1 HEAT grenade. Top it with a 2" PVC coupling and secure with Bondo. The 2" coupling will fit a tennis ball perfectly snug. Shim the interior down so a 1.5" PVC tube can be inserted. The 1.5" tube will fit a 203 shell as long as you sand out the interior 1/16-1/8 of an inch. I plan on using a PB4 because it is rated to hold all types of gas. Construct the rest out of PVC or whatever materials you choose.
Here is a diagram of what I'm talking about:



Recently I've purchased some M1A2 grenade projection adapters which fit an M7 Garand launcher. These can be purchased inexpensively. I think they are either Vietnam surplus or repro. I hope these will make a sturdier base and secure themselves well onto the launcher which was one of my main concerns with just using a PVC tube - I would have to hold it in place. Now I need to bid on this M7 launcher and get a PB4 ($100, ugh). I've had a friend try to launch a foam rocket with the PB4 in a 1.5" tube, he said it kicks pretty hard so I'm hopeful.

Good luck, keep us updated!

[kangaxxter]

Sorry I was out for so long (check my sig for details). My computer took all of my videos and pictures with it so I can't post them anymore. Sorry.

I'm reworking the Version three of the grenade to less than previous. What really bugs me is that i destroyed version two, so I couldn't tell if that was the best performance I could get or just a fluke. But nevermind that, to the low down on version three. The version three will not be the final version, just sort of a proof-of-concept test unit. I machined it entirely out of a block of balsa wood, very poorly actually. It kind of looks like a stickgrenade right now. There is a hole in the shaft where I put some cardboard tubing used for model rockets in it which holds the propellant, another CO2 canister. I'd post the pictures but last time I tried my computer went 'fatal error' on me and I lost everything. It weighs about half as much as the last one, around six, seven ounces to version 1's ten. (In my excitement to launch version 2, I forgot to weigh it.)

I only need to attach tailfins (don't worry I weighed them with the grenade so the weight'll be accurate), but I won't be able to launch it for awhile, now with school starting up again.

Also: I was looking at Godo's design and if mine doesn't work then I'm pretty sure he has it right.