Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 21, 2010 9:54:59 GMT -5
Looking at some chrono videos it reads about 340-350fps. Same as my CYMA Thompson which in my opinion shoots fantastic. Way better then the AGM MP40 which only bring 300fps or lower. I guess it depends where you play like you said.
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Post by cole97 on Dec 21, 2010 12:38:02 GMT -5
is there anything to improve the CYMA's accuracy even more? i hear a hard bucking, a piston head and a slightly harder spring do that. is that true?
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Post by cole97 on Dec 21, 2010 13:34:04 GMT -5
for some reason my cyma m14/m1 wont even go 100 feet with the hopup all the way up. any suggestions?
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Post by threader on Dec 21, 2010 15:48:14 GMT -5
The spring, hard bucking and piston head really won't give you more accuracy.
The spring is for more power. The hard bucking is for guns shooting high FPS. The piston head should give you a better seal than the stock one and that would increase the power.
The whole thing with upgrades is balance. You say you can't shoot 100'? Have the gun checked and see what the FPS is. If you are 340-350 you should get out there over 100'.
Is there any difference with the hop up on or off?
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Post by cole97 on Dec 21, 2010 17:00:13 GMT -5
i cant test the fps but there is very little difference between hopup off and all the way on. i mean very little, its only going about 3 feet further and still dropping too fast with the hopup on. i assume its the bucking. i could be wrong. any advice?
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 21, 2010 17:01:15 GMT -5
If a new spring, bucking, and piston won't improve accuracy what will? The only thing left is a new barrel and the CYMA M14 already has a tightbore. Making it more powerful, higher FPS, should make it shoot farther hence improving accuracy. At least that's what my common sense tells me.
Looking at a review of the CYMA M14 here's what the guy said:
"It chronos in at 336 fps, which is pretty good after 5000 rounds have been fired through it, since that means that's about what it shoots when it's been broken in. The real test is accuracy. As usual, I'm setting up my test in controlled conditions, with sandbag stabilization. I've cleaned the hopup bucking and barrel thoroughly, and made sure to leave an even layer of silicone lube in the barrel to maximize performance. The tightbore really has a huge effect; this is much better than the Kart or AGM by about an inch. That's just under a 4" grouping, for 10 shots at 100ft, although it looks tighter. After hearing about Darklite's adventures, I also tried shooting ketchup packets, and can hit them every time with my scope from 60 feet. Not too shabby."
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Post by cole97 on Dec 21, 2010 17:55:35 GMT -5
i bet if it shoots 380 new i can probably upgrade a spring to shoot a tad over that if the stock parts are capable of 380. im considering a hard bucking and a 6.01 if that will increase the accuracy even more. i really want it to be accurate so its a good trade off for lugging 7.5 pounds of garand around. those tk twist barrels are good, ive got one for my 1911. is there one for the m14??
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Post by threader on Dec 21, 2010 18:04:08 GMT -5
Many people confuse power with accuracy. I was a classic example years ago. Pushed all my AEG's to the edge of 400 FPS and one to 460. I had some great distance with these high power guns, but I really had to watch my distance's for when I shot people.
Point is, my accuracy was not improved, my distance was, given everything else was right.
If the hop up is working right you should be able to send bb's a nice ark upwards. The bucking could be torn, replace it with a good soft bucking. The nub could be missing or damaged, check that.
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Post by cole97 on Dec 21, 2010 18:09:59 GMT -5
i also do want distance. i think the m14 is a good base for accuracy and distance but i need to see whats wrong with my bucking, then i can start the upgrades
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 21, 2010 18:20:35 GMT -5
Having owned fired and chrono'd hundreds of Cyma 032 M14s I can say without hesitation they fire on average at 365 FPS right out of the box with pretty consistent performance Over time your hopup will wear and need replacement (especially if you over apply it given the ammo you're firing) (Always start with it completely off and adjust it upwards)
The inner barrel in the Cyma is excellent at 6.03 going to an even tighter barrel is foolish in my opinion unless you are extremely anal about the ammo you use as even good quality BBs are not consistently 6mm so going tighter is just asking for trouble.
If you're not getting adequate and effective range an accuracy to hit a pie plate sized target at typical ranges from a Cyma 032 right out of the box something is wrong. If you exceed 378 FPS in my opinion you are an unsafe player unless everyone has mouth guards,excellent eye protection or full face masks.
This sport is supposed to be fun, not an arms race. If you need to go beyond 400 FPS rethink your tactics or where you play as apparently the terrain is way too open.
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Post by cole97 on Dec 21, 2010 19:06:11 GMT -5
haha i dont think my backyard has an FPS limit. i might want to have two springs for my rifle though, one thats strong for target shooting and another for actual airsofting. i also use airsoft rifles all the time when i cant get practice with my real steel's. i dont get a chance to actually airsoft much so most of the time i use them as target rifles. i also am a ww2 collector.
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Post by cole97 on Dec 21, 2010 19:09:41 GMT -5
and i took apart my hopup unit and i figured out the hopup nub was turned sideways and wasnt pushing down. also the spring to return the hopup was missing. probably got lost in the "converting" process. thats fine though ive got millions of springs in my garage/workbench. ill do an actual test sometime and see what it does now.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 21, 2010 21:41:06 GMT -5
Just to mention, upgrading the spring without upgrading other parts will cause your rifle to break down faster especially if it is a clone weapon. I don't mind upgrading but the CYMA M14 doesn't seem like a rifle that needs it. I am planning on upgrading my AGM MP40 though, it broke at our last event so now is a good time for it.
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Post by cole97 on Dec 21, 2010 21:51:24 GMT -5
hmm okay. ill see what happens. right when i got the gun and for all my AEG's i take them apart once in a while and oil the gears and pistons. i hope that will keep my guns ticking. i was looking into upgrades because once when taking my CYMA thompson apart i noticed one of the teeth on the piston had a crack in it. it still works but im not sure for how long.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 22, 2010 10:55:21 GMT -5
Yea regularly cleaning and re-greasing your guns should help. Might be a good idea to replace the piston. You can get a new one for around $20-$30 I think, there are a lot of different choices.
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Post by whiterook on Dec 22, 2010 15:28:23 GMT -5
Boy oh Boy ...
This topic is on every airsoft board in existence! … not the M14 discussion per se … the one about range and accuracy! ;D
As for accuracy, I’m a big fan of tight bore barrels, good hop ups, and heavier weight bb’s (like 0.25's & 0.28’s).
I put a 6.01 barrel in my Thompson and went from a 3” circle at 130 feet to a 2” circle at 130 feet. I used 0.25 g bbs for that test.
As for range, you can’t beat a good air seal. Sure a heavier spring will give you more power … but you are wasting your time if you don’t have a good air system ... not to mention the un-need stress on the gearbox from a heavier spring.
Spared no expense with these upgrades … o-rings, piston head, air nozzle, etc. … I have double o-rings on my piston head … no air leaks of any kind. Having a good air system can boost your muzzle velocity by 50 fps.
Well that’s my story.
Best to you, WhiteRook
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 22, 2010 15:48:33 GMT -5
Whiterook is spot on. Anything you can do without upgrading to a stronger spring is eficient, effective and harmless with regard to stress on the gun. A gun that is properly lubed to begin with should go a long, long time (with reasonable care) before it needs to be taken apart,repacked or lubed (Tens of thousands of rounds) The Early Chinese clone rifles often arrived poorly lubed but the current ones in my experience have been excellent and are best left alone as they arrive.
Air seals and efficient use of the systems on hand is the ticket. Almost all the guns brought in for repair are ones the owner felt compelled to take apart and upgrade or guns used by spray and prayers firing 200 round bursts non stop.
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Post by cole97 on Dec 22, 2010 16:31:12 GMT -5
oh my god! the grease china puts in their gear boxes is a nightmare! its snotty and discusting and i dont see how it helps the gear box function and maintain a seal. i use airsoft silicon lube as soon as i get the gun and scrub the components down good, and reassemble by lubing the parts as i put them in. after that i notice a dramatic change in sound and trigger response.
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Post by threader on Dec 22, 2010 16:42:53 GMT -5
I agree with 2nd bat and Whiterook air seal is the most important.
Avoid a big spring to avoid problems. I have worked on dozens of these clones and if you have the skill re-shimming the gearbox and re-lubing it are good preventive measures.
I have had some team members go a year on a stock CYMA with no problems. If it comes out of the box shotting well I would leave it alone till it breaks. If it comes out shotting poorly I would rework the air seal, re-shim and re-lube.
Glad you found the hop up problem cole97.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 22, 2010 16:55:54 GMT -5
Yea on all the Chinese gearboxes I've opened up so far the grease looks pretty messy and their are literally only one shim on each gear. I am in the process of reshiming, re-greasing, and adding metal bushings to all my gearboxes. By the way what piston or piston heads do you guys suggest?
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Post by jimmiroquai on Dec 22, 2010 18:55:21 GMT -5
By the way what piston or piston heads do you guys suggest? If it's for the M14, any piston head will do but stick with nylon Cylinder head. You don't want a metal cylinder head banging against the fragile gearbox. Regarding pistons, make sure you do not get one with the teeth enclosed inside a large rail. This rail will catch against the spur gear. Again, for better shot consistency (precision) on semiauto, do consider getting a mosfet with active breaking. What this does is stop the piston at more or less the same point, making your cylinder air volume before each shot more or less the same, therefore making each shot more consistent than if the piston stopped at random positions in its cycle. The Cyma already comes with metal bushings so you can keep that stock. It also comes with a good enough 6.03id barrel. Regarding FPS, i also agree it's not everything. It's importance is relative to the accepted limits in your area. Be that as it may, it is still a very important part of the equation when talking about maximum effective range. What's the difference say with a 400fps M14 and a 300 fps M14 when shooting a target at 100feet, both optimized for perfect sealing and compression and accuracy? With the weaker rifle, the target may be able to see the bb coming and dodge it easily, even comically. Also with the weaker rifle, the target may not feel the impact of the bb. This is what i mean by maximum effective range. This is why it is important that you are all on the same page regarding fps limits where you play. But, regardless of FPS, this thread is about upgrading the Cyma M14, not keeping it stock. This is about improving the OTB performance. With that in mind, here are the most basic upgrades that will greatly improve performance: 1) Spring guide with bearings (version 3 but a version 7 fits as well) >>+10 fps more or less; improved spring efficiency 2) Mosfet with active breaking >> will protect trigger contact points and greatly improve shot to shot consistency; will also improve trigger response 3) Air seal nozzle with o-ring (guarder) >> often overlooked source for leaks 4) use heavier bbs (depending on fps) That's basically it. The rest is optional.
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Post by whiterook on Dec 22, 2010 20:03:49 GMT -5
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Post by cole97 on Dec 22, 2010 21:09:55 GMT -5
what is a mosfet? ive always had problems with the semi auto gear box locking up on m1 and i think it sounds like my solution.
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Post by jimmiroquai on Dec 22, 2010 21:23:58 GMT -5
I can't stress this enough: Do NOT use a metal cylinder head with a Ver7 gearbox. I've found this to be the main cause of breakage in a LOT of the M14s i've worked on, even on stock springs. Just wrap some teflon around the stock nylon cylinder head and you're good to go.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 22, 2010 21:30:17 GMT -5
Teflon goes a long way. On some of those things you listed people were saying the piston only works on certain upgraded gears. I get the idea though.
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Post by vasili on Apr 9, 2011 13:49:23 GMT -5
I had a question that just struck me...The CYMA M-14 is a TM clone, right? In other words it is Tokyo Marui parts compatible, is this correct? I heard TM was releasing Garand conversion kits for their own M-14's. If CYMA's is a clone, does this mean it is compatible with the TM-brand DIY conversion kit? If so, has anyone seen the prices on the kit yet?
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 9, 2011 16:20:09 GMT -5
Yep the CYMA M14 is fully compatible with the TM M14. I know nothing nor have heard anything about them making an M1 Garand kit.
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