elder90
Private 1st Class
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Post by elder90 on Mar 6, 2013 0:19:12 GMT -5
$29.95 for a 40 round clip? (Obviously plus shipping). That is more than I was expecting by double and three times more than I was hoping for. Yikes. definitely something to consider when pricing this gun. I agree, it was much more than we were hoping for as well. Unfortunately we dont make the prices or they would be around 10-15 bucks :/
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Post by Rekkon on Mar 6, 2013 10:50:52 GMT -5
Ouch, that is gas magazine territory. I wonder if magazine production is unusually expensive for some reason or if ICS is trying a flavor of console hardware/software pricing model.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 6, 2013 11:14:04 GMT -5
I think there are a couple factors at play here. One is the impact of economy of scale. The clip is unique to the grand and isn't similar to any other magazine so with no cloning opportunities the full cost of development had to be levied against what will be a fairly small total number of ultimate sales (relative to ak or m16 magazines for example). This is true of the rifle itself also but i think ICS and GnG realized the price point had to be under $500.00. At $400.00 they are probably making less per unit old than a typical AK at $195.00 simply because the AK is cloned with little development cost. The other factor is that a newly introduced product tends to come in higher than the ultimate market price. I expect (but could be wrong) that over time the selling price of both the rifles themselves and the clips will come down somewhat. Given the low mag capacity (which I applaud) a skirmisher will need quite a few to be competitive. This for all practical purposes adds dramatically to the real cost of entry on this gun. Sadly the production cost of this 42 round clip (or GnGs 20 round clip) will be just as high (or higher) than an AK 130 round midcap. I ordered seven spare clips (ouch) and wouldn't be surprised if they get to me before the rifle. My Marushin CO2 carbine was $350.00 but with three spare clips ended up being a $500.00 weapon and it only provides 60 ready rounds. . The garand with say five clips total will make it competitive at a WW2 skirmish that employs realistic levels of ammo restrictions and emphasizes semi auto fire. Sadly we will continue to see more thompsons than main battle rifles! Heck we'll probably see more BARs then Garands.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 6, 2013 12:16:20 GMT -5
You could probably do with 2 extra mags and a speedloader. $60 isn't that bad. Can't say its very encouraging either but oh well.
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elder90
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Post by elder90 on Mar 6, 2013 12:30:16 GMT -5
Remember guys, It DOES come with an extra mag out of the box.
2nd Bat is right, it does cost much more to have to make molds for the mags, whereas an M4 there are already mags out there and ICS wouldnt have to make a mag for it.
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Post by imp1864 on Mar 6, 2013 18:09:24 GMT -5
Until the clones come out. Perhaps then we may have them cheaper.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 6, 2013 20:08:52 GMT -5
I'm not going to hold my breath for clones although who knows what the cards hold? The reason I say that is there are coincidentally two different brands chasing what I suspect will be a pretty tiny niche market. Even at substantially less money there is a limited audience of mostly nut jobs (with me at the top of the list) who want a long, heavy, low magazine capacity, semi automatic rifle.
They are just never going to sell in the volumes we see with AKs, M16 variants, and MP5s. Unless of course we can collectively get ww2 airsoft to explode as a hobby.
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Post by shiftsup on Mar 6, 2013 21:54:35 GMT -5
I ordered 7 ICS Garand Magazines from ehobbyasia for $154 US which included shipping from Asia. That's $22 a mag. I live in Canada, it cannot be that much different south of the border.
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Post by newcomer on Mar 7, 2013 19:02:50 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 7, 2013 23:10:00 GMT -5
My pre order at EVIKE should be in any day...one would think.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 12, 2013 20:03:14 GMT -5
The spare clips I ordered from Asia last week, arrived yesterday and the rifle I ordered on the 29th of December from Evike is scheduled to arrive this Friday according to UPS. Yeah!!!! I will submit a full report once it gets here and I have chance to mess around with it. the clips are bigger than I expected but appear to be well done.
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HornetWSO
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Post by HornetWSO on Mar 12, 2013 21:48:31 GMT -5
2nd Bat, we are all anxious to hear your thoughts on this one!!
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SgtSalmon
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Post by SgtSalmon on Mar 12, 2013 22:31:49 GMT -5
Just checked my email as well and I'm literally jumping in joy. I haven't been this hyped since the gun was annouced.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2013 13:42:45 GMT -5
Juts got my garand= exceeds my expectations. As a 'mental teleportation stick' to a world of ww2 make believe it scores a 10.
nice finish, rugged, solid.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 13, 2013 18:06:14 GMT -5
Awesome news! Mine can't be far off then! Paladin has high standards (not rediculous, but very high) so if he is pleased I know I will be as well. As they said back in the day..."HUBBA HUBBA!!!!!"
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 15, 2013 21:46:47 GMT -5
I worked all day in the garage with the door open waiting anxiously for my ICS box to arrive. It finally did around 2.00 PM.
it is quite pretty if that can be said about a rifle. The wood is darker than the photos would have you believe and i see that as a good thing. Still too light for a typical GI issued stock but the wood looked and felt great and is an easy thing to fix. The overall shape is good. Its a little more bulbous than an actual Garand. (Stubbier and thicker overall). Especially through the neck but that was to be expected. I am nitpicking here as unless it's side by side with a real Garand, few people would notice. The most disturbing visual issue is the fairly noticeable gap between the barrel and the gas assembly. An avoidable flaw I would think?
I had batteries pre charged and my back yard range all ready to go with my chrono. I have just been called to dinner so firing range performance report to follow!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 15, 2013 23:36:45 GMT -5
So I loaded all my clips and right away noticed that 42 rounds isn't At all what the clips seem to hold. As a mid cap, the channels stagger the BBs and you have to be careful when loading to insure the BBs don't shim too hard against one another. I used the BBs that came with the gun initially and used the typical pistol mag speed loader. I discovered that at least when the clips are new you have load slowly and quite deliberately and even then you only get about 35 BBs to load. The first several cycles through each clip presented jams and I had to get the unjamming rod and push inside the clip to reengage the spring and move the BBs up. After three complete loads and much frustration the clips got better and better at feeding. Perhaps I was just getting better at it? After loading and firing a clip for four or five cycles I finally got to where they would fired to empty and not jam. Even then the most shots I got from any of the clips was 32. Typically with any clip there are 3 to 4 dropped BBs which is normal and such is the case with the ICS Garand. Maybe over time the clips will hold more BBs? hmmmmm? Once I got a clip functioning I'd start in on another clip and experienced the same chalenges with each but after four or five complete cycles with rod unjamming they got to where they functioned well. it's a mystery but given some use they all worked fine. Perhaps I should have run some silicon oil down the clip or maybe it's my speed loader?
With the clips up and working the gun shot great. Never got a feed with the first shot after putting in a clip, but if you know that going in, it shouldn't be a problem. As with most AEGs when you aren't feeding a BB the sound changes and you know you're empty or the clip has jammed.
Popping out the clip took a little effort but with practice will be easy enough. Seating a new one is very easy. Do make sure all the normal dropped BBs are out of the mag well before sticking in the next clip. (If you turn the rifle sideways when reloading, a BB or two can stay in the mag well). The clip locks into place nicely. The clips do fit in a Garand ammo belt pouch but with a great deal of effort and it's not something you are going to want to do, as pulling a clip out is way too tough and time consuming. The clips fit very nicely in riggers pouches or a GP pouch and they do fit in the cotton bandoleers.
The bolt pulled back exposing the rotating hop up and it is marked so as to prevent confusion as to up or down. The hop up is convenient and very well done. The bolt gives a satisfying sound when you rack it. The rear sites are as they should be and adjust for windage and range. WW2 style sight locks would have been a nice touch. (During the war the army recognized that with the extreme kick and just normal field conditions the sights often bumped to a new setting so they redid the rifles with a side lock.). The rear peep and front )!(, is a great system and the hole is right for airsoft. (big so you can get a quick sight picture.
The chrono indicated that the rifle, right out of the box was shooting right at 387 to 392 which in my book is perfect. The inner barrel provided ribbon tight trajectories. The response to the trigger was crisp and you could fire quite quickly without a lot of gear whine. (9.6 mini battery) An extremely nice, semi auto rifle. The weight is a couple pounds less than a real Garand but still gets heavy in a hurry for an airsoft gun. it's 7 1/2 pounds instead of 9 1/2. The ammo of course is way less weight so if I complain about the Fatigue factor I need to think that through a little bit.
I have waited 12 years for someone to come out with a commercial, GARAND AEG. My conversions don't count really as they were a stop gap built in a shed for goodness sake. This ICS is exactly what should have been available five or six years ago (at least) It looks very, very good, feels great and with the clips sorted out shoot super. I love this rifle!
It would be easy to pick it apart for minor infidelities like the over sized butt plate, incredibly over sized sling hardware and slighly too short gas assembly but beggars can't be choosers and I am absolutely thrilled with this gun.
with the ECHO 1 BAR, the plethora of Thompsons, the grease guns and the GnG Garand coming there will no longer be a weapons issue holding WW2 airsoft back. Sure a powerful springer Kar 98 would be great but with the STG 44, MP40, and eaily homebuilt G-43s the Germans are set as well.
This Garand is as good as I was hoping it would be. Wish there wasn't a gap in the gas assembly, wish the clips worked better right out of the box and wish they were one third the price but this rifle is still a dream come true.
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HornetWSO
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Post by HornetWSO on Mar 15, 2013 23:56:02 GMT -5
2nd Bat, thanks for the quick turn on your review! Looks like another winner has been released. Based off your insights this appears to be another rifle add to a collection.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 16, 2013 2:32:14 GMT -5
I really wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. I do hope the clips ease up and get less and less prone to binding up. Thus far that has been the pattern. Tomorrow i am going to try loading them using the tube plunger that came with it instead of the thumb driven speed loader. I haven't seen the old tube plungers since the old Tokyo Marui days but thats what it came with.
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Post by shiftsup on Mar 16, 2013 10:56:07 GMT -5
Hopefully the reason for the gap between the barrel and gas assembly has something to do with the design of the not yet released ICS barrel mounted grenade launcher.
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Post by warbirdguy1 on Mar 16, 2013 11:29:20 GMT -5
Just ordered mine! I hope to see it next week!
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Post by wilhelmmoa on Mar 16, 2013 12:20:17 GMT -5
I know this probably isn't the best place to ask this but I saw you mention it, is the echo1 BAR good? I'm thinking about getting one.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 16, 2013 12:40:16 GMT -5
The ECHO 1 BAR is discussed elsewhere but is also very very well done.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Mar 16, 2013 14:04:13 GMT -5
I wonder if there is a difference between the echo1 bar and matrix bar on evike other then the trades and price?
I wouldn't think that a Rifle grenade would make a difference but i am still upset that you can't mount a bayonet, here's to hoping the G&G will be more dimension proper(If that made any sense)
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 16, 2013 14:29:11 GMT -5
I believe they are absolutely one and the same gun. (Matrix and Echo 1s' BAR). The gas assembly on the ICS Garand is definitely off, size wise, as is the butt plate but I am going to explore the possibility of how hard it would be to replace them both with the actual parts. (along with the oversized stacking swivel and sling hardware). It makes no sense as to why those items would be off in a "from the ground up" production since the cost of doing them right would be identical butit is what it is.
There is so much that is right about the product that I hate to focus on the few things that are wrong although I guess that is human nature. The rifle is 95% there and got the main things right. It's real wood, mostly metal, is 6mm, has a small (but not too small) capacity mag, is nicely balanced and shoots great and isn't $1,000.00!
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Post by wilhelmmoa on Mar 16, 2013 14:33:41 GMT -5
I couldn't find a forum for the echo1 BAR so I asked here.
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HornetWSO
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Post by HornetWSO on Mar 16, 2013 17:36:37 GMT -5
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Mar 16, 2013 18:02:21 GMT -5
I am just upset about the bayonet =S since i like bayonets i would have to get one for it but if it didn't fit then I would have to be upset about that even though it is very minimal problem
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SgtSalmon
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Post by SgtSalmon on Mar 18, 2013 22:41:25 GMT -5
I got mine, earlier today. I've been loving it so much. The gap in the gas tube is a little weird looking. But I actually like the stock being a bit thicker. Feels a lot more comfortable.
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Post by tinydata on Mar 18, 2013 23:48:04 GMT -5
What's the finish on the wood like? I was told by ICS that it would truly be USGI- bare wood with nothing but linseed oil.
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