2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 6, 2011 0:09:31 GMT -5
I think the day is in fact coming I just don't think it is remotely imminent. Cole is spot on with the reasons it hasn't happened so far and those same obstacles remain. Those recent WW2 offerings are all small, BB hoses or pistols. Grease gun, PPSH and Browning Hi power The only exception is the Mosin Nagant which actually looks very promising. I suspect if it does even reasonably well we'll be well served. Unfortunately if it doesn't we'll be in an even bigger hole which is frankly the only reason I ordered one.
If it's WW2 I buy it! (Pretty much)
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Feb 6, 2011 0:27:20 GMT -5
I don't see why these companies would be more successful selling something like an M700 or M4 as there is already many versions of them. It seems to me selling a WW2 gun would almost be more of an edge as they would be one of the few companies, if not the only, selling that specific gun. If ICS made another M4 or M16 they'd be competing with 5-10 or more different brands. However if they made a Garand there would be no competition. The Zeta Labs mosin certainly looks for nice and worth the price. Although a more affordable and maybe not so perfect version might sell better.
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Post by Fusilier on Feb 6, 2011 1:13:38 GMT -5
Tom,I'm with you,we surely don't NEED yet another version of the M4! Yes,I understand,supply and demand,but another M4 clone is out almost monthly,and its getting old! And,MOST airsofters want a gun that sprays plastic everywhere! We don't. We can only hope,pray,demand,and beg for WW2 rifles and hope companies listen.
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Post by 10target on Feb 6, 2011 2:00:22 GMT -5
If I were running a decent airsoft company my first product would be the Garand. And I would dedicate the whole company to WWII guns.
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Post by cole97 on Feb 6, 2011 2:10:55 GMT -5
I say the best chance of an M1 is from a Tiawanese company. A gas rifle that is cloned from the Marushin. Better made, Like WE's M14. That might sell the most. An AEG? Not so sure. If it doesn't eject clips or function like the original M1, it just wouldn't do well. I hope I'm wrong and someone will actually make an M1 AEG (ICS), but I think it would be some stupid "limited edition" type of gun.
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Post by 10target on Feb 6, 2011 8:09:57 GMT -5
Yesh.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Feb 6, 2011 8:43:44 GMT -5
The Tanaka Kar98 which is the only successful Kar98 on the market was bottom loading. The Marushin Garand was a fail, it would be dumb to clone it. A nicely done Gas blowback Garand would be cool, but what we need is an AEG. If they can keep the costs low I think it will do well. WW2 guns seem to suffer from a few common problems, not well designed, too expensive, and not well advertised. The ones that have done the best from what I have seen are the CYMA Thompson and the AGM MP40. Both are designed well and cheap. I realize both are clones never the less I think the higher brand companies could keep their prices down too.
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Post by 10target on Feb 6, 2011 11:47:04 GMT -5
Exactly. If this thing is anything over $300 you can count me out. Very good point indeed. And you know, the cheaper WWII guns that are out on the market have done better than the way more expensive ones.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Feb 6, 2011 11:49:32 GMT -5
Although steel and wood is very nice, sometimes alloy and plastic or at least a plastic option would sell better.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Feb 6, 2011 18:50:18 GMT -5
People complaining about guns that "cost too much" really hurt the cause I think...Cheap applesauce is still cheap applesauce and you get what you pay for. 200-500.00 is a reasonable price I think all the WW2 guns have been in that area.
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Post by newcomer on Feb 6, 2011 19:38:06 GMT -5
I agree with you Charley, 200-500 for a skirmishable WWII gun is a deal as far as i'm concerned.
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Post by cole97 on Feb 6, 2011 20:13:40 GMT -5
sgttom - That's correct. Maybey if there was a GBB bottom loading M1 it would sell. I just don't think anyone would but the people of this forum would be interesting in an AEG M1. When I think semi-auto AEG I would think Real Sword. They made the SVD, a great semi automatic AEG I hear. But it's expensive and rare. The Marushin would have been excellent if they had used steel internals and reinforcement where needed. It sold well too for the most part. The enbloc's were cheap and it functioned well when it wasn't broken. That is the reason I seek one. WE proved that an M1/M14 style bolt and hammer/recoil system works and is durable. The same thing could be applied to an M1 with a short magazine (like the Tanaka K98K). Lets just cross our fingers and hope we get something in the shape of a Garand.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Feb 6, 2011 20:22:02 GMT -5
I am not complaining. I am stating the fact that a lot of people can't afford a $500-$400 dollar weapon. And if its $500 it should be pretty darn perfect as far as I am concerned. My max is $300 right now. You get what you pay for is unfortunately not always true.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Feb 6, 2011 20:37:34 GMT -5
Ok.....well you keep on keeping on I'm sure you know better.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Feb 6, 2011 22:19:25 GMT -5
keep on keeping?
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Totez
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Post by Totez on Feb 6, 2011 22:31:51 GMT -5
If they come out with a 200 dollar m1 I will die of joy and pick up two. I'd call 350-390 reasonable and anything under 450 a deal and am sure it would sell like hotcakes.
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Post by dercommissar on Feb 6, 2011 22:34:39 GMT -5
Basically the cheaper the weapon is, the less of a barrier of entry there is. I mean in an ideal world we would have different grades to please everyone. Still, I think it is a good thing that there are things like the $130 MP-40. People who take things more seriously will always move on to better weapons anyway.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Feb 6, 2011 23:54:07 GMT -5
keep on keeping on Inf. keep trying; keep doing what you are doing. I do my best. I just keep on keeping on.
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Post by 10target on Feb 7, 2011 0:05:21 GMT -5
There is no doubt in that "you get what you pay for," doesn't apply in all cases. I think $500 is a pretty steep price for gun of the sort. Heck, you can get a CMP field grade Garand for that price which beats the tar out of an airsoft gun. I went out and did some target shooting today with my Dad's, and for the money you not only get a real Garand, you get a wonderful match gun, or target (whatever your'e in for in RS.)
In this particular case it is an absolute key that ICS keep in mind that the market is not as willing in this economy to dish out $500 on a toy. We'd all love to, but most of us just simply can't. Granted yes, collectors will jump on this, but that leaves a whole lot of room for skirmishers like me and you.
Haha all of this on a bit of speculation. Like 2nd Bat I hope I'm dead wrong.
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kalbs
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Post by kalbs on Feb 7, 2011 0:51:42 GMT -5
I'm not sure it's fair comparing a real steel with an airsoft version. The M1 was mass produced in the millions while the ICS version will be produced maybe in a few thousand copies. I have airsoft AK's that cost more than my real AK's. You can't shoot people with real steel legally
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 7, 2011 2:20:15 GMT -5
Weighing the cost of an actual weapon with an airsoft toy is ludicrous. In time of war with government support and subsidies and economies of scale as you produce six million of them there is absolutley no comparison to an offering that will be lucky if it reaches into the thousands.
Relic Mosin Nagants are readily available around $100.00 while the newly released Zeta Labs is 400.00 + dollars. (Well below the 1200.00 price tag of the KJW springer that was the only other commercial offering.) Statements like that indicate to me that the writer needs to step into the G-2 tent and take a few deep breaths. (Undoubtedly through their mouth)
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Totez
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Post by Totez on Feb 7, 2011 8:51:29 GMT -5
Actually in general if you want to find a brand spanking new M1 (or at least one that looks that way) you need to shell out $1000 plus bucks. I picked up my one for $325 out the door and it was beat to hell but still serviceable so figure on if you compare a brand new airsoft version to a seemingly brand new rs M1 you are paying reasonably less for the AS version.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Feb 7, 2011 9:11:16 GMT -5
Yea I never compare Real steel to airsoft for the very reasons stated above. The HP PPSH41 Seemed a great balance of price/quality. If they make a Garand, regardless of the price, I will be happy. I just won't be buying it anytime soon if it costs over $400. Anyways I hope its not just a pipe dream.
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Post by kken on Feb 7, 2011 9:13:06 GMT -5
It's funny... guys will pay all sorts of money to have a totally accurate historical kit, ww2 or otherwise... and then complain if the gun is over a certain amount. Sometimes I think airsoft guns should be over $300 just as a barrier to entry to this hobby.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Feb 7, 2011 9:16:24 GMT -5
Its just that your shoving all the money down at one time for one item. The most expensive item I've bought in my kit is my tunic which was $80. There's also the fact that you know it can be done for less and airsoft isn't my one priority in life. I don't like spending $500 on anything let alone a toy gun. I can't afford it either I'd just end up making a custom I can do for less.
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Post by kken on Feb 7, 2011 9:18:59 GMT -5
Really? You know for a fact it can be done for less? Doubtful.
If it's not your priority in life, then maybe an m1 Garand that will probably cost about $450 isn't being marketed to you but to those who can and will pay that price for something that people have been dreaming about for over a decade.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Feb 7, 2011 9:21:39 GMT -5
If they want their weapon to sell better they should not put a $500 price tag on it is all I am saying. Yes some will buy a $500 gun but many will also not. Lower it to $300 and you have more buyers. The more buyers the better, right? I think it can be done for less. Examples of weapons that have been $300 or under: AGM MP44, AGM Sten, HP PPSH41, Ares M3A1 Grease gun. Anyone who makes airsoft their number 1 priority in life is a very mixed up person I am sorry to say.
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Post by kken on Feb 7, 2011 9:34:51 GMT -5
Or people just have jobs that allow them to afford things in life without complaining about reasonable prices.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Feb 7, 2011 10:06:20 GMT -5
I am not complaining just stating my opinion. If they want their weapon to do well/better they should try to keep the price lower. A lot of people in the hobby are high school college age and can't afford anything too pricey. Not to mention the US economy isn't doing to well right now. I don't think releasing a gun for $500 is a smart choice. Just my opinion.
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Totez
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Post by Totez on Feb 7, 2011 10:08:02 GMT -5
Lets take it down a notch. Airsoft isn't life, its a game. Some people don't have the money to spend on toys that others do. There are more important things in life than shooting bbs at eachother, like holding down a job, paying bills, buying/paying for a car and gas and insurance, family matters, and etc. This is exactly the reason I've had to take a hiatus from airsoft reenacting.
Affordable is always better, however almost anything is better than nothing at all (Notice I say almost because the 1200 buck price tag for the first Mosin Nagant is just out of line..... X.x)
Lets leave it at that.
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