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Post by jettalewis on Mar 22, 2011 22:50:10 GMT -5
VILNIUS, Lithuania — Lithuanian customs and postal officials say they have found a fully functional machine gun dating from World War II, complete with ammunition, in a package at Vilnius International Airport. Officials said Tuesday that the German-made MG-42 machine gun was found after scanning a suspicious 20-kilogram (44-pound) package posted in Lithuania and bound for Germany. Customs spokeswoman Asta Mikeleviciute says it was the first time that customs authorities had ever uncovered such a parcel and an investigation has been launched. No evacuation of the capital's airport was ordered, but authorities were placed on alert. More than 65 years after the war, Lithuania and other East European countries continue to uncover large amounts of weaponry and unexploded ordnance. Sorry if this is in the wrong place but I could not think where it might go. I bet they will feel foolish if this is a demilled
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werekiss
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If you look past the picture, you can see a spaceship ;)
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Post by werekiss on Mar 23, 2011 0:37:36 GMT -5
I wonder how the person the gun was being shipped to feels like...
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Post by jettalewis on Mar 23, 2011 2:46:26 GMT -5
If their govt bureacrats have about the same level of intelligence as our bureacrats it could have been anything from a photograph of an mg-42 to an airsoft version to a demilled. Maby they will do some followups and we will get to see whats going on. I was looking at some of the demilled in the $330 range. Not too bad, but I think they are for sale in EU.
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Post by volkssturm on Mar 23, 2011 12:20:52 GMT -5
I can picture someone walking into the post office with a packaged MG-42.
"What's in the package, sir?"
"Um, ah, I'm shipping golf clubs to my cousin in Stuttgart."
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 23, 2011 12:26:56 GMT -5
I can picture someone walking into the post office with a packaged MG-42. "What's in the package, sir?" "Um, ah, I'm shipping golf clubs to my cousin in Stuttgart." Lol I hope its a deact just so they will be embarrassed.
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Post by Rapture on Mar 23, 2011 17:44:57 GMT -5
If its like the US govt theyll just play it off saying it could be made to fire like they did with those WA m4s.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 6, 2011 18:26:54 GMT -5
Except that in the case of the WA M4s they could! The lower receicer group of a WA M4 mates perfectly to an actual upper and works flawlessly in full auto with a Colt upper assembly. It of course won't hold up very long and doesn't meet weapons grade tolerances but guess what...Illegal is illegal. This was not the ignorant boo boo most casual readers assume. It is the kind of thing that is best kept at an extremely low profile and not a wise area to make a big deal out of.
The discovery threatened airsoft in the US and thankfully Homeland Security and the ATF did enough research to realize that the gas guns are not the same set up and operation as AEGs otherwise airsoft imports in the US would have come to skreeching halt.
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Post by Rapture on Apr 6, 2011 19:13:15 GMT -5
Except that in the case of the WA M4s they could! The lower receicer group of a WA M4 mates perfectly to an actual upper and works flawlessly in full auto with a Colt upper assembly. It of course won't hold up very long and doesn't meet weapons grade tolerances but guess what...Illegal is illegal. This was not the ignorant boo boo most casual readers assume. It is the kind of thing that is best kept at an extremely low profile and not a wise area to make a big deal out of. The discovery threatened airsoft in the US and thankfully Homeland Security and the ATF did enough research to realize that the gas guns are not the same set up and operation as AEGs otherwise airsoft imports in the US would have come to skreeching halt. Interesting this bit of information has been lacking from all news sites that I have read. Most just said how the ATF said it could be used and didnt give any concrete evidence.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 7, 2011 2:08:45 GMT -5
My brother was involved in the case (He works for the Dept of Homeland Security, US Customs) He knows I am heavily interested in airsoft and when I asked about it he shared some insight which put a very different light on the situation than I had considered. If you look closely at the lower receiver trigger assembly on the GBB M4s they are quite frankly exact copies which was obviously easiler to reverse engineer than an original design. The materials of course are not the same but the demensions are. With the full auto functional selector when coupled with an actual upper (readily available) They are quite seriously illegal. Bad joo joo for anyone owning both components. (If caught) Not a good idea kiddies. This is why ATF was quite justified in confiscating and destroying the airsoft toys and the importer elected not to pursue the issue further. His options if ATF decided to get nasty were not good at all. Poor guy took a major dump on that shipment and it all resulted initially in the exporter failing to paint the tips orange.
It's a wonder really why any state side retailer takes the risk given the traditionally low markup for airsoft guns sold over here and clearly explains why they have to price them higher than internet sites overseas.
This fellow (if still in business) will have to sell about 3500 more airsoft rifles to get back to break even.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 7, 2011 11:01:13 GMT -5
It all comes back to a peculiarity of the AR design. The "receiver" is in two pieces. The receiver is of course the controlled item. In most firearms the receiver is the piece that holds the barrel and the bolt in proper alignment and contains the locking lug recesses or whatever is used to lock the bolt in place when firing. Someone somewhere decided that the controlled part of the AR receiver should be the lower, containing the trigger and hammer. I've never understood their reasoning. The critical tolerances and high stresses are all in the upper receiver.
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Totez
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Post by Totez on Apr 7, 2011 14:13:59 GMT -5
That poor MG42 is going to get destroyed.... a piece of history lost forever. Hopefully they will donate it to a museum as a deact and not just melt it down....
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Post by jettalewis on Apr 7, 2011 15:26:41 GMT -5
Some years ago I was in Canada after the govt took most of the guns away from the people. The Canadians will tell you otherwise, but that is what it amounted to. Old ladies brought in antique firearms they were terrified to have in their homes. Many fine guns ended up in the piles. And piles of guns there were. I well remember two piles that were about the sizes of small houses. Thousands of guns were loaded onto barges and then dumped into Lake Ontario. Now that is a liberal government gone amuck. For this reason I do not think any government would have a problem destroying any firearm. Regardless of their historical value.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 7, 2011 19:00:21 GMT -5
That is ridiculous! Thinking about it more, I have no idea why I am shocked by this. Stupid people and stupid goverments. Very sad..
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Post by nkn538 on Apr 7, 2011 19:34:14 GMT -5
for a second I thought this was in airsoft g2, when I read mg42 my heart almost stopped...
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Post by tinydata on Apr 7, 2011 22:29:47 GMT -5
2ndBat, the critical flaw with ATF's argument is that you need a RS upper to make a WE M4 fire bullets
If you can buy a RS upper, you can probably buy a RS lower too. It will be cheaper and far more convenient. ATF has no common sense.
Also, for SOME (sarcasm) reason, ATF rescinded their earlier ruling. They tried to keep it quiet, but news got out. So now GBBs are not officially banned, but CBP may still seize them for a multitude of reasons.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 8, 2011 14:47:54 GMT -5
Tiny I agree completely. Laws are laws and while they don't always make sense in actual application, agencies have to be real careful how they decide which to inforce and which not to. Generally sticking with the letter of the law is the safest thing to do.
The fact that this particular GBB model is still allowed in frankly amazes me. however I am delighted that it is. As mentioned, simply shaving the seer on an actual RS M16 variant would obviously be the most practical and least expensive approach if one wanted to deliberately violate the law. Seriously bad joo joo to do so and I highly recommend folks not fool around with such nonsense.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 8, 2011 15:23:12 GMT -5
I can understand that the agencys have to obey the laws but destroying the items is insane.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 8, 2011 20:31:43 GMT -5
2ndBat, the critical flaw with ATF's argument is that you need a RS upper to make a WE M4 fire bullets If you can buy a RS upper, you can probably buy a RS lower too. It will be cheaper and far more convenient. ATF has no common sense. Also, for SOME (sarcasm) reason, ATF rescinded their earlier ruling. They tried to keep it quiet, but news got out. So now GBBs are not officially banned, but CBP may still seize them for a multitude of reasons. You can buy a RS lower just about anywhere (even California ;D). The catch is that to buy the RS lower you have to go through a dealer and the background check. Realistically, the only people who are going convert an Airsoft lower into a real gun are people who can't legally buy a real one, don't have the connections to buy a black market one (or are afraid of being caught by a sting), or want a completely untraceable, probably one use disposable weapon. Or some kid who just wants to see if it can be done. Anyway, the ATF is in the business of trying to stop guns getting into criminal hands. They get a little anal about it. My understanding is that the ATF actually converted one to see if it could be done. Of course, in this case it may have backfired on them, since now everyone knows it can be done.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 8, 2011 22:12:51 GMT -5
The assigned agency indeed put the two together and were amazed how easily they married up and indeed proved that they would function together (However briefly) and produce a selctor switch full auto fire arm. That's all the proof they needed to uphold their confiscation and destroy them. They were so soundly critisized by an uninformed public I'm amazed they chose to take the hits and keep the details from the press.
Initially the only violation they had noticed was the lack of orange tips which are required on replica firearms imported into the US. (Incidently technically this is only mandatory for replicas that do not fire a projectile) so by statute airsoft guns and BB guns should be free to come in without them but they have ruled that they are more replicas than BB guns and have by matter of process treated them as replicas. Their real issue and the primary reason for confiscation is trade mark violations. These items when discovered are confiscated and destroyed sometimes with fines.
There are some customs officials who are unconcerned about it all while others have real issues with airsoft guns and would just as soon see none coming into the US. You can imagine that the inspection burden is a real pain
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Post by tinydata on Apr 9, 2011 20:02:34 GMT -5
ATF's test was a sham. Their report (to the person who provided a GBB M4 testing) noted that they fired single shots. They NEVER proved that it was a "machinegun," which was part of their problem with the things.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Apr 9, 2011 21:00:37 GMT -5
I think 2nd Bats hear say is closer to the source than your hear say isn't it? It was stupid of whoever produced them to produce them close enough to the real thing to even be suspected.
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Post by tinydata on Apr 10, 2011 8:54:52 GMT -5
does the fact that ATF rescinded their original ruling say anything?
In addition, they recently approved the King Arms M4 GBB rifle. It is essentially a clone of the "illegal" G&P series as you can swap uppers/lowers between the two guns. You can swap lower parts, and bolt groups, and the rifles will work fine.
It is explicitly "ATF Approved," a fact that the retailers (most major retailers in the US) are touting in their product descriptions.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 10, 2011 11:17:50 GMT -5
The manufacturer could have avoided the whole problem just by making the dimensions on their gun slightly different from the RS gun so that the uppers and lowers wouldn't fit and the RS trigger group components wouldn't line up right, and no one except a real anal retentive type with a micrometer would know the difference.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Apr 10, 2011 11:37:48 GMT -5
Exactly volks..
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Post by tinydata on Apr 10, 2011 11:45:22 GMT -5
that's the thing- the GBB that was banned has a smaller than RS spec receiver.
The one that's now ATF approved has the exact same dimensions...
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Post by Fusilier on Apr 10, 2011 14:44:26 GMT -5
When I was in the Army back in the 80's.I had a non-gun AK-47 I wanted to bring home on leave. I had it in its cardboard box and the airline person asks whats in the box,I said, "a model". and that was it! Different times.
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