Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 28, 2012 18:02:55 GMT -5
Well my group has been around for a few years now and I want to start laying down some authenticity rules. I am pretty sure if I don't the farbiness isn't going to go by itself. So anyways I want to know if you guys think these rules are reasonable. Within 5 events you need to have your basic impression. Within 8 events you also need your WW2 weapon. A basic impression will consist of;
German: Tunic- Thrifty $60/New $90 Helmet(can be Spanish)-Thrifty $20/New $40 Belt and buckle- Thrifty $20/New $40 ammo pouches- Thrifty $20/New $40 breadbag- Thrifty $10/New $30 boots(can be East German)- Thrifty $10/New $35
All together: Thrifty= $140 New= $275
Trousers can just be modern grey/green colored pants or East German pants. Spanish helmets are allowed but they must be converted or covered with a helmet cover Undershirts can be plain white colorless shirts. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
US Infantry: M41/M43 Jacket- Thrifty $30/New $60 Wool Shirt/HBT jacket- Thrifty $15/New $50 pistol belt with ammo pouch/cartridge belt- Thrifty $30/New $60 Canteen- Thrifty $15/New $40 first aid pouch- Thrifty $5/New $10 boots(plain brown hiking boots and leggings will do)- Thrifty $5/New $20 M1 Helmet- Thrifty $15/New $30
All together: Thrifty=$100 New= $230
Post-war helmets are allowed as long as they have repro khaki chin straps. Again any kind of green pants will work. I thought this was very reasonable. I am very picky about my own impression and like to get everything as right as I can afford. I understand though some people don't share my opinion and I accept that. I do think there needs to be a minimum requirement or we might as well not call it a WW2 airsoft game. My requirements are a lot more lenient then any reenacting group I know of. Any thoughts or suggestions on this? I am thinking of maybe having a weapon be prioritized over uniform but I am not sure.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 28, 2012 18:42:29 GMT -5
Uniform should be more important than the weapon, then the field gear. If they can't borrow a weapon they are still in a WWII uniform rather than using a WWII gun and looking out of place. And they can be burlaped even though it looks stupid.
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Post by mastermike95 on Mar 29, 2012 1:04:04 GMT -5
Honestly i think WW2 airsoft authenticity standards should be pretty low. I airsoft alot with modern guys (im always wearing ww2 no matter what) and they always tell me i wish i could do ww2 or vietnam but i heard its expensive. Honestly you could create a WW2 Style look a like uniform for Allies or Axis pretty easy
I have to resort to these cheap impressions cuz i make ww2 movies and i cant afford four m42 jump uniforms.
This my opinion for authenticty standards...
Basic Gi -M65 Field Jacket ($20 ebay surplus stores) or Wool Shirt/hbt shirt -Green pants or look alike wool trousers (thrift store 10 bucks) -leggings $15 -lookalike roughouts, service shoes, vietnam boots painted brown (20 bucks) -pistol belt (10 bucks) -M1 Helmet (20 - 30) stay away from pre kevlar chinstrap 1980s helmets can remove if necessary Germans -m43 cap, spanish helmet, (30 bucks) -swedish tunic, east german tunic, grey bdu with insignia (20) -post war suspenders belts canteen sets (30 ebay) -pants (10 bucks thrift store) -black boots (20) -german gaiters (15)
This is just an opinion, id rather see a ton of guys wearing this than modern m4 sprayers.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 29, 2012 7:45:58 GMT -5
Those are a little too low of standards for me. I mean what I am asking is much lower then your average blank reenacting unit. Why buy an M65 jacket for $20 when you could get an M43 for $30.
A lot of guys complain about it being expensive but then they go and spend a ton on modern gear and airsoft accessories they don't even need. They can spend $240 on a weapon but if its a uniform then they can't. I think the truth is they really don't care much about playing WW2 airsoft.
I've thought about removing the canteen from the list as it is expensive but it some situations I'd think it would be necessary especially when it gets hot out.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 29, 2012 16:14:57 GMT -5
Why buy an M65 jacket for $20 when you could get an M43 for $30. Where
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 29, 2012 19:25:38 GMT -5
eBay and gun shows.
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Post by Forever_Kaos on Mar 30, 2012 0:28:26 GMT -5
For us in Ontario (Canada) we have different level of events. Level 3: Anything and everything welcomed, we do these type of events to recruit.
Level 2 being you make essentially the best effort you can within reason. In a nutshell... No modern Molle/PALS webbing of the sort. Canvas or pockets for your mags. No RDS/modern scopes/lasers, every weapon is fine.
Germans: Flecktarn top/grey bottoms or black.
Allies. DPM/OD/Khaki. M1 helmet or field cap.
Level one being the highest standard, 90-95% period correctness. Nothing less. Essentially, if you have your BDU's and headgear, you'd be okay. Who knows why or how you lost your webgear. Whatever it is though, has to be period correct. No horribly modern weapons (AUG, P90, Masada/ACR/etc...) Anything else is okay with some burlap.
If people are truly seriously interested, they can ask to borrow kit or join up. It's not hard to obtain, nor ultimately expensive. I know guys who spend more on modern junk than I have on WW2 kit.
A civvy impression can be had for mere dollars at your local thrift store.
It ruins it for all the other guys who spend the money and time on their kit, to see some hooligan jumping around half-assed.
We find this gets the best of both worlds. We have events where we have lots of guys running around, looking "Okay". And then we have the smaller events, with everyone looking smack dab on. Hell, sometimes even Level two events end up brinking on Level 1 just because of the turn out.
Perhaps start off slow, and work your way up to harsher rules or develop a tier system.
Just my .02
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 30, 2012 8:00:52 GMT -5
Yea I am thinking of doing events with lenient rules and then other events which are strict. The rules I am made in the first post would still apply though. The thing is I am afraid a lot of our members will never get a period kit unless I put some ground rules down. I am taking canteens off the list. That will save at least $50 for the Germans and $20 for GIs. Reenactment groups require probably twice as much maybe more then what I am asking, especially when you include a real steel weapon. If they can do it I think us Airsoft reenactors can pull it off too. One of my primary goals is to draw some of the blank reenactor crowd in to airsoft.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 30, 2012 14:37:37 GMT -5
I agree that it is wise to plan events with a range of criteria and it,s a good way to build a following. When we started in the NW the expectations were initially very modest. Costume quality at best. A couple of us chipped in and bought quantities of clothing that at a glance looked pretty good. he did up pseudo German and I did up pseudo GI. It is comical in hindsight but it worked as we had loaner gear for folks who would otherwise not have been able to attend. in mass and at a distance they looked pretty good up close it was a giggle. Its amazing how decent a 2.00 pair of brown slacks from a thrift shop tucked into leggings with a tan short jacket and a steel pot can look. Web gear hides most everything and as a fleeting glance in the forest you can at least tell one side from the other without arm bands. The events definitely stood out from a typical airsoft event especially with forcing most everyone to stay on semi auto. Back then period weapons for airsoft was virtually non existant so lots of AKs and Thompsons. The Germans had plastic Fritz helmets and modern camo tunics with grey slacks. There were always several guys in outstanding impressions which gave folks something to aspire to. Over time the percentages shifted to where few folks were in the hokey costume garb. typically folks who expressed an interest in trying it out and they were always made to feel welcome. back then. (ten years ago). Affordable proper impressions didn,t exist. today they can be bought for about what I had in the costumes.
there is always a fine line between adequately creating the mood and obsessing to the point of weirdness. theimporatnt thing is to remember it's all supposed to be fun and you are after all playing army. I always was more interested in the tactics and battle sessions being more authentic than the uniforms and weapons but others concern themselves more with the props, uniforms and gear. Neither of us is right and neither of us is Wrong. the challenge with any hobby built around fantasy is that everyone's fantasy and standards are different so in order to gather a group of any size you will have to be willing to accepts some compromises or be wiling to travel considerable distances to attend events.
We are still at the baby steps stage of our hobby even after a dozen years of encouraging it to grow. Having a sugar daddy with loaner gear is a huge boost to supporting local events but everyone isn't so fortunate. To offset some of those costs an inexpensive rental charge is one thought that seemed to work. Standards an expectations clearly stated is an absolute must for any event so participants know what they will encounter. Whatever your standards be sure to remain steadfast about them otherwise people will go away critical of the event.
If you build it...they will come.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 30, 2012 17:34:25 GMT -5
Yea I am lucky to have my uncle who has a ton of gear to loan out. Of course I have to rely on him every event as a lot our members don't have gear of their own. We've been doing this for 3 years now so I think its time to set some rules down. I'll have to see how it goes. I think everyone can afford what I am asking.
I obsess over my own gear to an extent. I am the kind of guy who likes to wear WW2 socks and underwear ;D. I understand everyone is different and going to that extent isn't necessary. Like I said I am being more lenient then any reenactment group I know of.
I also like the tactical aspect although good tactics and such are hard to get going. I am trying to work on that to as we are kind of a hodge podge right now as far as the battles go.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 31, 2012 18:13:54 GMT -5
You absolutely can't expect reasonably sound tactics to be employed without some dedicated training and rehearsal time and it's rare that these sessions can be arranged and held. Often times at our events we set aside a period of the event (before the tactical phases) to do some training and practice. Simple stuck like formations, fire and manuever, tactical withdrawals, employment of crew served weapons and such, We then follow with the mission brief allowing time for planning and rehearsal by both sides before they deploy.
It sounds tedious but in fact it helps make the events different than a typical skirmish weekend and the participants really seem to like it. It helps that our group has a half dozen former NCOs and officers with credibility and a willingness to set up the training.
Once the tactical portions start it really makes difference in terms of the authenticty of the tactics. Naturally the participants are well short of a trained and skilled Infantry unit but they have something beside flinging BBs to think about and it adds a lot.
For our events the gameplay standards are every bit as improtant as the uniform requirements which like yours listed are fairly lenient. (Far less forgiving than they useed to be however.) For gameplay we assign every third or fourth player as a full auto gunner with everyone else limited to semi auto fire. Only the crew served MG gunners (about one in 12 players) can have a box mag and their weapon must be either mounted to a bipod or tripod and a heavy, long weapon. (we still allow modern MGs here but this will change when reasonably priced 30 Cals and MG 42s become available.) These restrictions have been like pulling teeth to get by in with but everyone seems to agree that it adds a lot and everyone comments how well it facilitates team work and the need for planning.
Its amazing visually how the right web gear, khaki leggings and a netted steel pot over a reasonable base costume provides the needed ambiance. This is especially true once everyone is filthy and caked in mud.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 31, 2012 20:11:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice it really does help. Its hard when I don't know much about tactics myself and we only have one member with real military experience. I guess I'll have to do some research and make some plans.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 31, 2012 20:19:25 GMT -5
I don't think those requirements are unfair at all... I like how web gear isn't super important, almost everyone in my group uses either post war web gear (only belts, suspenders, and maybe canteen since everything else looks too Flaggrantly Wrong) or don't wear any. It is sometimes more expensive than the actual uniform and of course the uniform is more important. Helmets should probably be able to be subsituted for caps since sometimes they are expensive, and cheap ones are usually at the "flee markets" of reenactments
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 31, 2012 20:45:20 GMT -5
Yea I wouldn't mind caps either, though I know a lot of players like the helmet look plus its slightly more realistic.
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