Trench Gun

[brownien]

Anyone have any info on how much the M1897 Trench Gun was used in the ETO? I bought an AGM m300 shotgun, the kind that takes the same mags as the M1 grarnd conversions. I am planning on modifying the asthetics of the m300 to look like the M1897, with the added benefit of mags working in both my M1 and Trench gun.

[aj czarkowski]

I actually did this exact same thing ;D Having two of your weapons using the same magazine is very convienient

I'm not too sure how often the M1897 was used in the ETO, I just built mine because I had an ACM m500 that I never used. I know it was used alot through the PTO though

[brownien]

Yea I've never seen a Photo of them being used anywhere but the PTO but i wasnt sure if I just wasnt looking in the right place! I plan on using it as a tanker impression.

[2nd Bat]

Having served and retired from the Army with all of that time in the Infantry I can assure you that if something was POSSIBLE it was undoubtedly done. However you want to ask yourself, "how far outside the realm of likelihood do you want to stray?". The trench gun doesnt show up in the tables of organization for infanty, armor, artillery or armored cavalry units but we know they were used in the pacific. Odds are some showed up in the mediterranean and eto but obviously in very small numbers. Until ww2 weapons choices become far more commonplace and affordable i for one would have no issue with trench guns in use at an event.

As the allied weapons choices for airsoft become more abundant and affordable i would tend increasingly to discourage their use in an eto event. Obviously these kind of decisions are up to the event sponsors and certainly arent mine to make. I like to see any trend that increases the percentages of semi auto or cock em each time weapons as they encourage movement and team work.

[BigBoy]

Trench Gun Use in WWII

The following information is from documents relating to the actual WWII war time production of short barrel (18”- 20”) shotguns for use by the US military. There is a distinction made between the riot gun and the trench gun. They both have the short barrel while the riot gun has no vented rib and the trench gun does have the vented rib onto which a bayonet can be attached.

Remington

Remington Model 11 Riot Guns: Between serial numbers 455,273 – 499,431 and 701,669 – 711,086.

Remington Model 31 Riot Guns: Between serial numbers 15,111 – 63,218.

Savage

Savage Model 720 Riot Guns: Between serial numbers 68,540 – 88,210.

Stevens

Stevens Model 520-30 Riot and Trench Guns (Shared same serial number range): Between serial numbers 37,941 – 69,985.

Stevens Model 620 Riot and Trench Guns (Shared same serial number range): Between serial numbers 7,192 - 9,108 and 16,939 - 32,433.

Winchester

Winchester Model 97 Trench Guns: Between serial numbers 915,825 - 956,146.

Winchester Model 12 Trench and Riot Guns (Shared same serial number range): Between serial numbers 980,000 – 1,029,000.

Winchester Model 12 Trench Guns: Between serial numbers 1,030,000 and 1,040,000.

As you can see, a large number of shotguns from many different manufacturers were procured for military use. As to where they were shipped and deployed, I have no specific information but have seen pictures of them being used by guards for supplies, prisoners, etc.

[brownien]

Thanks! I actually just got done "converting" or you could say WW2-izing my M300 I bought. The barrel is still 16" and there is no bayonet lug, which I will be getting to. I also filled the grooves in the stock and painted the stock and pump in a dark brown to simulate wood. Also, I added sling mounts and added a web rifle sling. I already used it in a game, along with my 2ndBat M1 conversion (love it!) and my custom BAR (was having compression problems at the time ). By far the shotgun is easiest to use especially when a battery dies!

[2nd Bat]

It would make sense that the shotgun would be issued to Military Police in any theater and once around, swapping and "elicit procurement" could, and no doubt did occure.

[shiftsup]

I have read several comtemporary accounts of shotguns used by GI's in the ETO. They are uncommon but still happened.

If you google SGT Harvill Lazenby 82nd Airborne, you should find an account of him jumping into France with a double barrel shotgun. He was taken prisoner on June 6 but escaped and made it back to friendly territory ~10 days later.

[2nd Bat]

The elite units were especially flexible with regard to personal choice and unusual weapons. This pertains to knives, brass knuckles, private purchase pistols, more sub machine guns, use of metal linked ammo and other details. A shotgun would be very very rare but no doubt was absolutely done.

[germanshepard]

well you could pull off a nice MP impression lol

[soldatjakob]

In an old WW2 encyclopedia my Dad has it shows a picture of a Sgt. In the Big Red 1 carrying one somewhere in Italy. He was rounding up Italian prisoners.

[2nd Bat]

I have also since seen one trench gun) in color footage shot by George Stevens in the ETO in his sons documentary D-Day to Berlin. It also shows several guys wearing camo parachute fabric on their helmets who are NOT airborne soldiers and lots of other cool minute details and in color which is cool.

These were George Stevens personal home movies which his son found after he died. George Stevens was head of SHAEFs film production unit and was a very famous film director both before and after WW2. It's a great resource if you happen upon it. I bought it at a clearance shelf at a bookstore.

[efrimann]

I've tried to make an overlay of the Mossberg 500 on top of the M12, it seems doable. There are some more pictures in the album, also from Normandy with GIs using pump guns...



The part has be moved around a bit, and a bayonet lug made. This, however, will add the missing lenghth of the barrel. With a little weight add, and a finish of Humbrol dark metal cote...



A possible beginning at less than $25?

[zam]

My conversion on a shotgun ACM  wood & metal . The IMA heatshield is more expensive than the shotgun.



Original




Custom





 

[2nd Bat]

Very nice!

[stuka]

thats pretty freaking cool, how was it done?