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Post by gunslinginotaku on Oct 6, 2013 0:53:15 GMT -5
Since I can't seem to find images of how German troops held pistols (besides in movies/videos games which I HATE using as a reference) I was wondering of anyone knew or had an article on how they were fired, they are normally depicted as holding the gun straight out, their body inline with the arm and elbow locked. I saw a 1940's-ish training video of American's doing the same way, can anyone help me on this?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 6, 2013 1:26:53 GMT -5
The Us Doctrine for firing pistols was quite different from the techniques taught today. The stance was sideways to the target with feet spaced a shoulder width apart. The firing arm ws extended forward just shy of being locked. Your non firing arm was draped behind you or bent with your hand at your waist. The pose looked much like a fencer. The recoil was supposed to force the weapon slightly upward and then the firer would drop it back down to acquire a new sight picture and fire again. The intent was to create a relaxed posture exposing the firer as little as possible.
I suspect this was the technique taught by all major belligerants of the time. In truth few soldiers got much training on pistols and very few could consistently hit a man sized target at 20 meters away.
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Post by insterburger on Feb 9, 2014 10:40:33 GMT -5
2nd Bat is right. This "duelist" stance as it's sometimes called was used by the Germans throughout WWII, and then by both divided Germanies, in the East at least right up to the end in 1990. Obviously tactical considerations and cover will come into play, but for the most part you should be working from the impulse to as much as possible emulate that stance.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 9, 2014 11:34:19 GMT -5
The beauty of the Luger and P38 design was that both created a natural and comfortable grip with most of the weight in the handgrip. Pointing them was not unlike simply pointing your finger. With the smaller 9mm round there was little kick and for those who have not fired them they are a delight to shoot. Especially when compared to the US Browning 45 which is a brute of a pistol.
Resorting to a pistol was even more desperate in real life much as it is in airsoft. The level of accuracy goes way down with a pistol but the additional downside is unlike airsoft the range is dramatically depleted and the lethality is way way down. To put things into relative scale (which I am not endorsing in this case) our pistols should all be limited to around 200 fps and shoot 12 grams. Pistols were up close and personal weapons. Reassuring to have but not something you wanted to have to pull out.
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Post by insterburger on Feb 9, 2014 17:43:51 GMT -5
In the German army, the pistol that would most routinely be issued to troops was the P38, and that only to NCOs, MG42 crewmen, and a few other specialized roles. There were other issued pistols- -Brownings, Mausers, captured Soviet Nagants , etc.-- but for an enlisted man, while nothing would be most likely, a P38 would be the most typically correct sidearm.
Officers were responsible for buying their own sidearms, and for the most part went with the smallest, lightest ones they could (probably out of knowledge of their inefficacy that John pointed out and not wanting to haul around deadweight on their belts). The Walther PP or PPK were common with officers, and to some extent the Luger (perhaps because of its flair factor, and the fact that it does sit so gorgeously in the hand).
John, to your point I love both the P38 and P08, but in my opinion the Luger is worlds ahead of the Walther in terms of feel and balance. The angle on the grip is just right for comfort and natural aim in the "duelist" stance, and with the possible exception of the Colt Army of 1860, is arguably the most complete combination of grace and ergonomic superiority ever put into a pistol. The P38 is, to my hand, clunky and awkward in comparison, though still ahead of most sidearms. The P38 is far and away more reliable and user-friendly than the finicky and delicate Luger and taken as a whole constituted a tremendous improvement.
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Post by mentosfreshmaker on Jul 5, 2014 17:04:57 GMT -5
I'd be interested to read up on the issuance of the Nagant 1895 revolver to German Army units, especially in light of the rarity of double action versions, and the very, VERY specific ammunition required. I could perhaps see the TT-33 in German hands, after all they'd use the PPSh-41 rechambered in 9x19mm frequently.
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Post by ssgjoe on Jul 5, 2014 18:22:44 GMT -5
P08s are beautiful.
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