efrimann
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Post by efrimann on Mar 8, 2014 7:49:55 GMT -5
I thought you might want to look at this: Affordable M1 Garand AEG 6mm soft air guns. I'll be looking for a second hand cyma M14 to add to a Denix M1 garand. As a matter of fact, I think I'll stock up on second hand M14s for the purpose of making a bundle of these. A second hand M14 could be as cheap as US$ 100, even here in Denmark. A brand new Denix Garand goes for another US$ 150 wholesale. Second hand M14s are perfectly allright, if in full working order. There is never any warranty on conversion jobs anyway, and they'll be stripped of their black licorice paint and parkerized, and then given a vintage finish. 6mm Garands are very possible. Due to import/export stuff, I thought it best to make a step-by-step guide as I go along, what do you guys think? Selling across the big pond is such a hassle, but with meassures, tool lists, hints and stuff, you could handle it yourselves? For anyone in EU, I would be happy to make one for you, too. Let me know, and we'll talk it over. www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwdFYPIXlS8
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 8, 2014 8:07:11 GMT -5
I too have had that idea, but with the ICS out, the G&G upcoming, and the Marushin 6mm for realism freaks, it really isn't practical.
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efrimann
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Have anyone seen an antitank gun replica used in a softair games? If so, where? What does such a thi
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Post by efrimann on Mar 8, 2014 11:19:22 GMT -5
Hi Shiftysgarand
Well, the Marushin really is state of art. What is the current price of the ICS? If it has to be imported from outside EU, it's probably around 400-500US$, to which you can add 125US$ courrier and 25% customs. And perhabs VAT on top. Let's say 700US$.
A great looking vintaged Garand for half, will only work if it really looks good and gets a good reputation, a bit like scoot'n'shoot in the UK. Well, I'll do a prototype, and we'll se what happends. The problem is, of course, to maintain a little bit of collectors interest to keep value.
Love your status,by the way. Garand in a nut shell.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 8, 2014 11:42:49 GMT -5
The cheapest I have found is in the US, at airsoftgi for $360. However, there are some sites in the UK that sell me for around 300-350 pounds. Yup, my status is what a garand boils down to.
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efrimann
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Have anyone seen an antitank gun replica used in a softair games? If so, where? What does such a thi
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Post by efrimann on Mar 8, 2014 12:01:29 GMT -5
Yeah, well. I get your point. I'll just have to find an EU dealer. Any hints?
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 8, 2014 12:50:21 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 9, 2014 11:59:09 GMT -5
The marriage of a Denix Replica and Marui based M1 is a sound concept but EXTREMELY time consuming to pull off. I have done two and devoted months of tinkering to complete the marriage. You still end up using the shotty magazines which work fine but are by no means ideal. It all comes down to your skills, standards, available time, patience and expectations.
The ICS Garand requires a little cosmetic tweaking to be acceptable but this requires very little time or effort and the gun is a GREATshooter. I suspect the GnG will be visually more exact and when and IF it finally comes out I will be all over it like white on rice.
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efrimann
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Have anyone seen an antitank gun replica used in a softair games? If so, where? What does such a thi
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Post by efrimann on Mar 9, 2014 13:54:42 GMT -5
Yes,point well taken. But for the Lee Enfield / SMLE the prices goes thorugh the roof. I spotted a nice springer version (not gas with leaking o-rings, thankyou) and for that money I could buy a second hand car in perfect running order. Haha, too much. I gotta have a Lee Enfield, though. The collection must be complete(d). And a Springfield sniper somehow, I have found a scope that looks quite like the M82, but a very reasonable price. Funny the way they could rust, and still keep a very crisp blueing. Were they waterproof, does anyone know? I mean, the Remmington sniper doesn't have any iron sights....
I agree that the ICS need a little patina, judging from online photos...
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 9, 2014 14:57:29 GMT -5
The absolute proper scope mounts for your M1903 A4 (sniper) will in and of themselves be very very expensive even if you go with reproduction hardware. Fabricating something approximate is the way to do and for little expense you can come up with something that will pass most peoples authenticity standards. The enfield is a fun project and due to the lower cost of actual components is fairly affordable if you're able to do the work yourself. by comparison Springfield parts are very expensive even here in the US. A marriage between a Denix enfield and VSR springer is more involved then appearances might suggest. As with the real rifle the lower stock is a bit too thin to facilitate adequately your VSR components without ending up with paper thin stock walls.
The ICS garand does require some physical alterations (fill the gap in the gas assembly, replace the sling hardware with actual bits and tweak the apperance of the bulbous butt plate) and as mentioned alter the patina throughout. once done it looks real nice.
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efrimann
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Have anyone seen an antitank gun replica used in a softair games? If so, where? What does such a thi
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Post by efrimann on Mar 9, 2014 18:10:41 GMT -5
Hm. Maybe it should be build a little wider. If made out of three pieces of wood, glued together, maybe some of the wood work and fitting could be solved beforehand, before bonding the pre-cut third 'wall'. And then the entire stock carved and sanded to ensure adequate thickness. It could mean the stock could get to be a centimeter thicker, adding a little bulk not many would notice. And it would be possible to develop stencils for a fair inner fit of barrel, reciever, magazine and such, making it easier for others to build. Of course, the two seams would have to be disguised with a rather deep brown finish, but most Lee Enfields I've seen have been dark, almost black. The metal works could be forged in white metal using silicone moulds, with stencils for cuts in either the VSR reciever or a cheaper version as the Zastava clone. Hm, sounds like a lot of work for a single copy, anyway.
I even think a prototype for meassures could be made from polystyren sheets, using a very, very sharp knife to cut a model. When trial-and-error using rapid materials, the best fitting 'thing' built from the sheets should hold correct meassures - before planing and sanding. I suspect it could even be spray painted to check if it looked convincing....
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 10, 2014 14:22:47 GMT -5
What about taking one of the gas SMLEs and putting VSR guts in that?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 14, 2014 12:42:32 GMT -5
The gas SMLE is more expensive then you can buy a denix or actual Enfield. For actual Enfield the stock shades vary tremendously but of course thats because we are in some cases looking at 100 year old weapons that have been through a war (or two or three). In viewing pictures of the time it seems they ranged from a medium blonde to medium brown when fairly new.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 14, 2014 18:27:28 GMT -5
Gas SMLEs at evike are $210.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 15, 2014 23:39:06 GMT -5
Gas SMLEs at evike are $210. surprisingly about the same as a real one would cost in below average but working condition
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 16, 2014 15:58:17 GMT -5
That's simply because millions were produced and economy of scale and over abundant availability and obsolescence tends to drive costs way down. i wish the gas SMLE had better anecdotal comments from happy customerd regarding field performance but alas it appears that they have been generally disappointing thus far.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 18, 2014 13:38:17 GMT -5
With the ICS Garand still lingering in the $400.00 area (with a reasonable number of clips) and the GnG probably closer to $500.00 (if and when it comes out). A M 14 to garand conversion is still a viable consideration if you do it yourself or can find one used that was well done by the builder. (they seem to be bringing somewhere around $250.00 to $350.0o with a bunch of clips). At under $300.00 that rivals what it would cost you to make one yourself in materials alone so a heck of a deal.
If you do buy a used one examine carefully pictures of the final build and ask detailed questions as to functionality, feeding, select fire? Semi or auto only? Mossfet? And upgrades etc. For a lot of one offs the care energy and effort put into the builds are exceptional and offer a really great value with a ton of tender loving care put in. For others they were builds sloppily done and amateuerish home builds.
There is a huge diffence between "Hand built" and "Homemade". Many of the Garand convesions done by members of this forum have blown me away with how nicely they were done and these would represent wonderful purchases where YOU reap the benefits of others sweat equity.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Oct 18, 2014 15:47:14 GMT -5
May I ask why you think the G&G will be closer to 500? Their "veteran" m14 is only 400$s so I can't imagine it being more then that.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 18, 2014 16:09:09 GMT -5
well to begin with it isn't even out yet so pricing is on a "pre order basis". Secondly what do you think clips are going to cost and how many would you think a person would need to be skirmishable? People often forget about shipping, batteries and spare clips when factoring their costs.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Oct 18, 2014 18:16:44 GMT -5
Well if you're going to be like that with the G&G might as well be like that with the ICS lol. To make a gun skirmashable with magazines depends on the person. I usually don't use 2-3 mags using semi only and most people already have batteries as well.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Oct 18, 2014 19:44:31 GMT -5
Well, lets break it down with Evike here, using the ICS one as a base model:
ICS M1 Garand x1 - 419.00 ICS 42rd Garand Mags x4 - 56.00 (14 each) 7.4v LiPo, Small Type - 20.00 LiPo Smart Charger - 25.00 LiPo Charging Bag - 7.20
Total with out Lipo and accessories: 475.00
Total with LiPo and accessories - 527.00
(I do believe this would qualify for free shipping).
This is everything you'll need to get the gun up and ready to kick ass, and have the ammo capacity to do it. I'm using LiPos for the model because you'll want that trigger response, and its a 7.4v which all stock guns can handle. With the mosfet built in to it, it might be able to handle a 11.1v right off the bat, but don't quote me on that. Also, you shouldn't really trust stock batteries and want to get them replaced with an aftermarket one anyway, regardless of upgrading to a Lipo or not. And if one was to have the Lipo and the charging stuff, disregard the last items.
Also, 14.00 dollars for a magazine thats just been released, for a proprietary gun, and only one company makes them, thats a standard price (I think even FAL mid caps go for about 20 each). I wouldn't be surprised if that is around what G&G will be selling their spare mags for. Either way, spare mags are going to be a bit pricey, compared to other style mags.
In the end, its going to be a pricey buy regardless, but if the G&G is going to be similar priced to the ICS one, this is what we should expect. G&G top models, as in, not their Combat Machine line, are usually about 300 bucks, even if its a M4 or AK clone. Which means all their parts, inside and out, are extremely good quality. Now, factor in a full wood stock, with more wood than a M14, that would easily jack up the price 100-150 bucks more.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 18, 2014 23:47:05 GMT -5
My point exactly! I am sure a person could get by just fine on four clips for the ICS Garand but keep in mind at 30 rounds each that's 120 rounds.
Perhaps someday both ICS and GnG will offer a simulated wood offering at a reduced price but for now they remain a good value in my opinion but spendy none the less.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Oct 19, 2014 2:03:42 GMT -5
While I never held or fielded the ICS one, I'm sure its amazing. I think I'm going to stick with a Cyma M14 conversion. I like the idea of all of the aftermarket parts for the Ver7 out there over the proprietary ICS and G&G ones. Again, not saying they are bad, but I've done a lot of gearbox work and AEG upgrading, and I feel a lot better with something that has more parts out there.
I also like the lower prices of the M14-M1 Garand conversion, haha.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 19, 2014 15:05:39 GMT -5
there are upsides and downsides for everything. I still very much like the way the conversions shoot and the fact that bayonets fit and as an omage to history, the fact that they use so many actual parts. With all that said the ICS Garand remains my favorite all time airsoft gun.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 23, 2015 3:23:03 GMT -5
I received a partially inletted Garand stock and set to work finishing up the work. That was a couple months ago and Volks had done much of the dremel work it served to remind me just how much work modifying a real wood stock is. A denix replics stock is even more work as the stocks are solid with virtually no inletting at all. As with all of the Garand efforts the real task is fitting the gear box into the neck. hollowing out the butt stock to facilitate a battery is tough enough but the neck is daunting to say the least. Two months of plugging away and. I finally finished it today.
Anyone who thinks it might make sense to tackle this project as a commercial venture when the ICS and GnG Garands sell in the $400.00 range is delusional. If you do want to take on this project look for a post war, Danish stock as these were slightly wider and thicker through the neck. You will still need to reinforce the inner neck wall with fiberglass as the remaining wood once create a sufficient tunnel will be paper thin in places.
Volks stock was not thick enough through the neck to work so I had to creatively add some additional size with fill.
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efrimann
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Have anyone seen an antitank gun replica used in a softair games? If so, where? What does such a thi
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Post by efrimann on Mar 7, 2015 18:28:31 GMT -5
I had a chance to try the ICS - very nice. I'll just use my two M14s for two G43s. Anyone has a cast of the bolt system? Please?
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 7, 2015 19:42:11 GMT -5
Shoot n Scoot in the UK have a conversion kit for it in rubber I think, but it's not cheap.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 8, 2015 20:09:59 GMT -5
I think Efriman was already aware of the Shoot n Scoot offering as he mentioned and even showed a picture of it in another post. A G43 is the next, logical project offering that someone really ought to take on. I am so burned out on the whole home built commercial craft builder business after doing the 2nd Bat Garand and assorted other projects that its not going to be me. I pass the baton onto anyone foolish enough to tackle it. I think there is some profit potential if you substantially devaluate your time and have some financial resources to invest.
Getting a home build business up and going takes some discrecionary funds as the turnaround on needed bits and pieces and set up adds up quickly. I discovered that the only way it even came close to being profitable was to formulate some build efficiencies and do six at a time. Once you establish something of a reputation for being dependable and providing what you promise, sales will come. With the short M14 magazines and mold or adaptive design for the receiver group, handguard and stock shape finished guns could probably be offered for around $500.00. Anything less and you'll quickly discover MacDonalds will pay a much higher hourly salary.
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efrimann
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Have anyone seen an antitank gun replica used in a softair games? If so, where? What does such a thi
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Post by efrimann on Mar 9, 2015 11:00:36 GMT -5
Quite right. If someone would have the brilliant idea to make cheap(er) stocks with the correct inlay and a 1mm mild steel triggerguard, there would still be something left for people themselves to do - and buy, install and adjust.
I bought the drawings for a duplicator router and a spare router, and with that rough stocks should be possible at a good price. The hour consuming finishing could then be left to the future user.
And shoot'n'scoot would probably have a bit more business, so he'll be around longer. I would like that.
We don't have to do it all by our lonesome selves, do we? If you, for a fee, would check the prototype merchandise, everybody would be quite safe that they dont waste time and money. Your suggestions and subsequent endorsement could be your contribution, it would mean a lot to many.
The logistics would take forever, but who cares? As for the G43, we've been waiting for ages anyway.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 9, 2015 13:27:10 GMT -5
The stock alone no matter how nicely done will present a very limited market and certainly not enough to justify your set up, design and initiation costs. You will find a better market for finished "out of the box" guns or assembly kits that provide ALL the essential parts. I would love to see such a thing materialize. You will soon discover that sufficiently inletted and properly shaped stocks will be very very expensive but DO NOT let my consistent splashes of cold water prevent you from proving me wrong as nothing would delight me more.
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