2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 23, 2006 3:08:13 GMT -5
We're going to have a local contest between now and the Long Winter game in January. Three of us are going to build Sringfields out of springers. They must ne done by the game in january. At the game the participants will all judge which is the best replica based on Authenticity and appearance, performance, lowest cost to produce and ease of replication by others.
The good news is it's a great incentive to get this project done. The bad news is I'm competing with Schmitty and Eke who is a younger clone of Schmitty when it comes to talent and skills. My only hope is they are both perfectionists and therefore will over engineer or over spend in time and components. I'm excited cause odds are we'll have three more period correct looking weapons at the game.
|
|
|
Post by Guinness on Nov 23, 2006 14:24:53 GMT -5
I apologize for butting in late, but what springer weapon are ya'll going to use as the base?
-G
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 23, 2006 17:14:54 GMT -5
I'm using one of the VSR knock offs. Not sure who the brand is. It all gets rather cloudy with so many new offerings out there. This one shoots great, uses the 30 round Marui clips and appears to be capable of accomodayting a stronger spring should one decide it's needed. I like the silky smooth relatively low effort cocking however.
I think it will prove to be a decent base and if so I plan to buy a bulk of them to reduce my costs and shipping. My goal is to one day hold a bolt action only game in a trench ladened field. Maybe have a machine gun or two. Can you say "Over the top!"
|
|
TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
|
Post by TommyGunner on Nov 23, 2006 21:44:52 GMT -5
I Honestly can not wait till you get this 03 project up, running and finnished, us USMC guys really need a rifle BAD! I already have my USMC riflemen impression finished now I just need the Springfield. The Garand is too finickly to use effectivly yet (2nd Rangers have it down though) and the USMC ditched the Carbine for a Garand and even a Springfield when they could. So so far we still dont have a good gun.
Hope you can change all that.
TommyGunner
|
|
|
Post by jimseery on Nov 23, 2006 23:11:29 GMT -5
Guinness - Just past the Devil's Backbone West of Loveland.
|
|
|
Post by Guinness on Nov 24, 2006 1:53:18 GMT -5
Guinness - Just past the Devil's Backbone West of Loveland. Nice! ;D A fellow Coloradan / Airsofter I haven't met! We'll have to remedy that at some point! And maybe I'll be able to see that beautiful 1903 in person when it's completed!!! Welcome aboard Sir! -G
|
|
|
Post by phantom12321 on Nov 24, 2006 11:34:11 GMT -5
need pictures
|
|
|
Post by schmitty on Nov 24, 2006 11:46:09 GMT -5
Jimseery: Welcome to the WWIIAA I very much look forward to hearing and seeing your progress on this very interesting project, It sounds like you have a good insight on what it takes to make a custom airsoft gun.
As 2nd bat mentioned we are having a local (Wa state) contest for building custom springer airsoft bolt actions (not just springfields, any WWII bolt action). The judging includes cost and ease of build meaning the cheaper and easier to build the higher it will score. This is so that hopefully the projects can be easily replicated or possibly produced for sale. Making customs for low cost and ease of construction is an alien concept for me so I may not score well in this area.
But overall the purpose of the contest is to promote WWII airsoft and encourage people to try their hand at custom work.
Schmitty
|
|
|
Post by jimseery on Nov 24, 2006 14:15:04 GMT -5
I'll try to answer all the questions, requests, offers in one swell foop. 1. Pictures - haven't got a camera but put some pressure on kids yesterday at dinner. Once the project is more than a pile of airsoft gun parts and a "hundred year old stock"on my kitchen tableI'll do my best to get them posted. 2. Contest, unlike 2nd Bat I don't work well under pressure and I'm not sure with family obligations over the holidays I'll be able to get it done on time. However one of my best friends has got worked up over the project and one of his best freind's hobby is converting double barrel shotguns into double barrel big bore rifles and he has the shop to do it. A customer has already taken an elephant with one. So if I can get a full day in the shop I may make more progress than I expect. If some one gives me a date and location I may have a shot at making it. Getting together - As stated I live on 2 acres in the wilds of NE CO. I am a 62 y/o widower who bears a freightening resembalance (for those of you who are old enough to get the reference) to Super Chicken. I have more money then is good for me, I like Super Sauce and I have no Supervision. I can be contacted at mtjim@frii.com. If you come, come armed. My backyard is infested with terrorist garden gnomes and their evil beer can cohorts. I'm barely holding them at bay with my M1A1. Custom Work - In every hobby I've been involved in for the past 30 years I have found the satisfaction really comes from making your own instead of buying it (except for blacksmithing where the hobby IS making your own). One of the greatest self fulfilling prophacies is "I don't think I can do it. For you guys out there who are waiting for 2nd Bat to make one for you I would suggest thinking about doing it yourself. I suspect that you can do most of it with a Dremel tool and a good X acto carving set and the kicker is if you're successful with this project you could start on a K98. The Springfield is essentially Son of Mauser and I suspect that fitting the springer in a Mauser stock would not be that much harder. Even though I will probably be doing most of my work in a shop I will post my thoughts on each step including what I would do if I were doing it with my own resources. Finally I'd like to thank all of you for your kind welcome and support. I'll keep it touch.
|
|
|
Post by Guinness on Nov 24, 2006 15:46:09 GMT -5
"one swell foop"Well I've heard all I need to- Anyone that is an obvious fan of Peter Sellers movies is A-Ok in my book ;D Jim- inbound email from ckalvarez@gmail.com this afternoon -G
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 24, 2006 15:47:07 GMT -5
Nice to see another board visitor that was alive during the Korean war and remembers when Kennedy was shot!
|
|
|
Post by Jager.Drü on Nov 25, 2006 3:04:59 GMT -5
Well I've decided to try my hand at making my own Kar98. The base will be a HFC USR-11 Spring Rifle, but I going to buy the whole 98 most likely a Yugo. With that I'll have all the the parts I need.
|
|
|
Post by Guinness on Nov 25, 2006 13:39:48 GMT -5
Ok Jiim- Mail sent....no really this time -G
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 25, 2006 14:38:15 GMT -5
As you can see the contest changed a bit and it's apparently any Ww2 bolt action rifle. The Kar 98s have an obvious advantage due to the inexpenive and readily available actual parts available. Most all of the main WW2 bolt action rifles were on some level a copy of the Mauser (in many case originally licensed from Mauser) so they are all very similar and I suspect lessons learned from all of our efforts will contribute to the pool of knowledge for this type of project as it may be undertaken by others.
AADan built a Kar 98 using actual components and somewhere in the site their is a thread that covers his project. I suggest we all photograph our efforts so we can document for others what we've discovered. (After the contest of course.)
|
|
|
Post by jimseery on Nov 25, 2006 17:20:10 GMT -5
Guinness - Mail received. Contest - I move a step further away from a January completion today. From my limited knowledge of what's available for base guns I find the HFC springer very attractive. Since I'm shooting for authenticity over cost one of the major problems I forsee is fitting the magazine lengthwise in the space available. So today I cut a little less than 1" from the middle of the magazine and am in the process of trying to fit it all back together. If this is successful it will solve the issue of the length of the magazine plate in both the Springfield and the Mauser and the magazine itself if someone tries a Moison-Nagant. This will probably mean the loss of about 10 bbs capacity but it might make the magazines small enough to fit in real pouches. I'm not a skirmisher but if I was out in the field I would not complain if I had to reload a suppossedly 5 round magazine every 20 rounds. As always I'll keep you informed. Lastly, would it be worthwhile to start a new thread around stuffing the HFC springer into other WW2 stocks. I have some thoughts on this and this thread is getting kinda long (but interesting).
|
|
TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
|
Post by TommyGunner on Nov 25, 2006 18:02:58 GMT -5
Actually I was going to suggest the same thing to you guys, A conversion thread, but why not take the thread idea a step further and in Technical create a section for every ww2 gun available i.e. Thompson, Carbine, Colt.45, kinda like what has been done with the Garand.
|
|
|
Post by Guinness on Nov 25, 2006 23:20:31 GMT -5
Good idea there TG- There are a lot of changes in the works for the forums just wait and see And Jim- Small dang world- email inbound. -G
|
|
silencer
Private 1st Class
Spartan by blood
Posts: 407
|
Post by silencer on Nov 26, 2006 1:28:19 GMT -5
Alright fine I will let out my plans this last year. Very top secret. I was plannign on converting a cheap springer to a mosin nagant. Serriously I found stocks for 50 bucks online thats really cheap. however, the news is now my mom wont let me do anything involving war and guns for the next 5 months. I was told this yesterday so now I am letting out my secret on this. I was plannign on popping out my first mosin nagant by the game and maybe having like John showing it. Now I can not, but if someone wants to try (it would be 200-250 dollars) I could give them my information that i Have gathered over the last year.
Silencer out
|
|
|
Post by Guinness on Nov 26, 2006 1:53:23 GMT -5
however, the news is now my mom wont let me do anything involving war and guns for the next 5 months. Silencer out Grades and school are always more important- This stuff will be here, education is your job right now. ;D -G
|
|
|
Post by schmitty on Nov 26, 2006 11:49:29 GMT -5
2nd bat: the contest didn't change the idea was to include all WWII bolt actions right from the start. If we only did Springfields then all our Germans wouldn't be interested in participating. I think the cost of parts should be considered when judging though. for example one should expect a springfield to cost more to make due to the cost of the real steel parts.
Schmitty
|
|
silencer
Private 1st Class
Spartan by blood
Posts: 407
|
Post by silencer on Nov 26, 2006 19:28:18 GMT -5
however, the news is now my mom wont let me do anything involving war and guns for the next 5 months. Silencer out Grades and school are always more important- This stuff will be here, education is your job right now. ;D -G O i know its not because of school. I have a 3.2 gpa. I focus on school I just like this as a hobby. After all airsoft is fun and so is learning about ww2 so what could be better?
|
|
|
Post by jimseery on Nov 30, 2006 21:15:47 GMT -5
Between being cold, having a cold and losing a part for the modified magazine everything is on hold here. However my son-in-law found a site that sells new stocks. A streight or C style springfield stock is approx. $130 including handguard. Mauser stocks are about $150. Website is www.boydsgunstocks.com.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 30, 2006 23:00:45 GMT -5
I lucked out and got a walnut military straight stock (no hardware) for under $50.00 in excellent shape. I found a finger groove stock for $100.00 The upper handguards are surprisingly reasonable and fairly available. $20 to $25.00 I'm somewhat confused by the two available lengths of upper handguards however.
I'm having fun so far and am taking pictures of the things I'm trying. For authenticity, real hardware is the key but most of the parts could be approximated quite nicely as Dog did for next to nothing I think.
I'm almost tempted to do two variations. One for optimal authenticity and one for affordability.
|
|
|
Post by jimseery on Dec 1, 2006 19:10:19 GMT -5
2nd Bat - I suspect that one handguard is for the 03 with the ladder sight mounted in front of the action and the longer one is for the 03A3 with the rear sight mounted on the rear of the action. - Congradulations on scoring the low priced stocks. Is it from a continuous source or did you hit a one time lucky? - I've thought about doing a lowest cost possible project too, but I don't think I have it in me. I've found a picture of a USMC sniper version with the scope from hell on it and if I do another Springfield it will probably be that or the 03A4 version. I will certainly write up my findings and thoughts on the inexpensive version. - Like you I'm having a great time with this project. New mags came in today so I should be able to let you know how that's coming.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2006 1:36:20 GMT -5
I scored a one time mislabelled stock. "Old army stock garand I think" It was a springfield and arrived today. Actually a very nice stock very small gouge back by the butt plate. Other hadware is still coming. The stock bands seem outrageously expensive to me as do the front band with stacking swivel. I have the rest of my needed parts still enroute. The upper stock lengths are exactly as you indicated. I'm thinking I'm probably going to need a pitted old barrel which I frankly didn't want to mess with but don't think I can avoid on the more accurate version. With that offf course I'll need the proper front site and so on and so on....
|
|
|
Post by schmitty on Dec 2, 2006 10:09:44 GMT -5
Funny you mention that. I too am struggling with a way to make a spring rifle on the cheap side. My natural instinct is to not compromise its looks in favor of low cost. I'm probably going with a k98 and I'm toying with the idea of making my own spring bolt mechanism from AEG piston and cylinder parts Schmitty
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2006 13:52:14 GMT -5
Schmitty the perfectionist, tinkerer. God love you. It's going to be very cool to see the various end results of this effort. I'm trying to figure out ways to approximate the look and you're figuring out ways to replicate it exactly. I'm trying to come up with something others can do and frankly that I'm able to build. I'm predicting you'll have a show piece and I'll have a couple decent approximations.
Will you actually house the AEG piston and cylinder inside the Mauser bolt or will you fabricate it all?
|
|
|
Post by jimseery on Dec 2, 2006 20:29:27 GMT -5
This is wonderful! I think I'm going to fall right in between the two of you. I'm doing everything I can to make a model that, when someone hands it to you, you say is this this a real gun, using available parts and the USR 11 base gun. I don't think it will be that good, but that's the goal. I stumbled accross what was labled "Yugoslavian Mauser" but what I think is a Czech Mauser for $100 yesterday. I suspect I'll go back and buy it and make that project #2.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2006 20:56:59 GMT -5
I got the base guns in I had ordered (Finally) I Dinked around with them quite a bit today. I hadn't really spent a whole lot of time with bolt action airsoft rifles in the past. I have fired the Tanaka Kar 98 gas gun (extremely impressive) as well as the Marushin Kar 98 (much less so) and I have fired an APS 2 and a VSR-10. This stock, simple gun shoots somewhere between the VSR-10 (Marui) and the Tananka Kar 98 on a hot day. It's well made, cocks smoothly but with more effort then the Tanaka gas and shoots hard. (20 gram consistently shoot at 386 to 392 FPS.) I could upgrade to airsoft sniper gun levels but doubt that I will. For my purposes it shoots well and I wouldn't want to increase the amount of effort on the bolt. I can shoulder cock it without too much effort and want to keep it that way.
Adapting it to a Springfield lower and upper stock will of course take some precise alignement and lots of dremel work but is certainly doable. Cutting the outer barrel in front of the side select hop up mechanism will of course be neccessary but should be fine. The upper handguard fits nicely on the current outer barrel up to the hop up with a little grinding After that it's too thin. I'll have to cut a slight detent in the upper hand guard (maybe a 1/4" high by an inch long) to accomdoate the hop up slide. Should be no big deal. The depth of the base gun hardware concerned me where it led to the trigger guard and trigger assembly but it appears to be perfect. The barrel on the base gun doesn't appear quite long enough but that will be remedied with the replacement outer barrel. The upper groove opening in the real stock is slightly wider then the base gun receiver group. Not sure how well that will fill the stock and what if anything will have to be done cosmetically there. Some resin paste fill in will definitely be required in places I'm sure. The magazine is going to be way too far forward on the springfield but I'll mount a fake base where it should be and live with the actual airsoft inserted clip along the base of the gun. It's a 30 round clip and I bought four spare magaznes (for my two guns) as they were cheap.
The good news is my base gun performs well right out of the box, is inexpensive and apparently suitable. The base gun is a Double Eagle MP001 whatever the heck that is. I'm still awaiting arrival of a wide assortment of Springfield parts.
|
|
|
Post by schmitty on Dec 2, 2006 23:27:10 GMT -5
Fabulous. Glad to hear the MF001's are decent weapons. I may still go that route. I'm really not sure about my AEG parts idea, it may be to outlandish and will definitely be more work.
I went to a Gun show today hoping to pick up a cheap K98 and of course didn't find any (except the Turkish ones that are quite different), I was surprised... I thought K98's where common as muck. I did buy a nice potato masher just so I wouldn't leave empty handed.
Schmitty
|
|