2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 4, 2007 1:05:27 GMT -5
With my super secret, aging and staining process! It's actually pretty simple but works quite well and enables me to match a wide variety of shades from the actual Garand wood and makes the plastic look alot more authentic. I working on a new process that should work even better although it's more time consuming and labor intense.
Once I've got it down I'll share the results.
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azeeze
Private 1st Class
Posts: 622
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Post by azeeze on Mar 4, 2007 1:12:00 GMT -5
Ok cool, I wondered how you made it look like real wood, cause it doesnt look anything close to plastic. -Nick
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 8, 2007 19:55:14 GMT -5
There are several ways you can do it and it depends on the finish you are hoping to attain. If you simply take very abrasive heavy grit sand paper and scrape the long ways throughout the stock and then use thin wash brown and black dye you can not only match the real wood you are using in color you can also approximate the texture as well.
If you want a more rugged look smear a thin thin coat of resin paste (bondo) over the entire plastic stock and allow to dry. Rough sand that to the desired effect. Paint and then stain that and you'll have a very wood like finish that even in the hands of an admirer will probably think it's wood. The nature gouges and grains will look very much like a 60 year battle rifle. You need to use resin paste to fill the slots created when you remove the butt plate flap and the stock locks and some other grooves on an M-14 that weren't present in a Garand.
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natman
Private
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Post by natman on Mar 8, 2007 20:01:13 GMT -5
i have done a very similar staining technique on my ak47 and thompson, it only cost 5 dollars.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Mar 8, 2007 20:59:34 GMT -5
There are several ways you can do it and it depends on the finish you are hoping to attain. If you simply take very abrasive heavy grit sand paper and scrap the long ways throughout the stock and then use thin wash brown and black dye you can not only match the real wood you are using in color you can also approximate the texture as well. If you want a more rugged look smear a thin thin coat of resin paste (bondo over the entire plastic stock and allow to dry. Rough sand that to the disered effect. Paint and then stain that and you'll have a very wood like finish that even in the hands of an admirer will probably think it's wood. The nature gouyges and grains will look very much like a 60 year battle rifle. You need to use resin paste to fill the slots vreated when you remove the butt plate flap and the stock locks and some other grooves on an M-14 that weren't present in a Garand. Mhmm.. i will have to try this. I was able to get the shape corect but couldnt get the coloring to work. paint would just come right off. -Cary
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 8, 2007 22:15:30 GMT -5
Once you've applied the stain and allow it to dry you'll need to coat it with a lacquer. I use a clear dull coat that I spray on.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Mar 9, 2007 14:44:14 GMT -5
alright thanks. I think i will try oe of the new ways you listed. -Cary
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 16, 2007 12:52:04 GMT -5
M14 the pictures you shared in the other thread depict this approach very well. As others can see in the pictures the end result looks very good.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Mar 16, 2007 19:32:04 GMT -5
Hey thanks! still has some more work to go though. Also i will show a closer picture, my gun is very weathered looking. Which is how i wanted it, with alot of pitting. -Cary
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 17, 2007 22:09:00 GMT -5
The amount of pitting is entirely up to taste. With time you can make it silky smooth as well. Like you I enjoy a weathered look not unlike a battle used rifle and indeed once applied it can be made to match the actual Garand wood from a real rifle quite well.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Mar 19, 2007 15:09:10 GMT -5
I also figured out that if you take black shoe polish, and take a modeling paint brush, you can take amounts of the shoe polish, and dab it in the pits, then wipe over it with a clean napkin or rag. Making it look even more realistic, by simulating the way grease would build up in the pitts. If i do decide to do these for the public, like you said it will be up to their tastes weather they want a completly perfect stock, or one that has pitting. By the way, 2nd Bat, if you do want me to stay out of making the conversions thats completely fine, i just remeber you saying that you were almost done with them. So i figured i would pick up were you left off. -Cary
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 23, 2007 20:47:09 GMT -5
Thnaks for your concern but please don't worry about it. I plan to make about 18 more and then I will move onto a new project. I certainly have no problem with anyone else offering their own variations for sale. My goal was to simply do what I could to get as many of them out onto the airsoft fields as I could and recover my time and effort. I've done that so anything from now on is just gravy. As you're learning it's not easy to get the parts and bits together in a timely fashion and I can assure that after you've built a half dozen or so it begins to seem alot like a job instead of a hobby. I've built slightly more then 30 of them now.
It's been fun, but alot of work.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Mar 24, 2007 19:06:53 GMT -5
Ya, im young so i have time, the only thing is finding the dang parts.. (im kind of a cheapscate with that lol) Other then that i was able to fill in what needs it... sand it down... coat it in bondo.. and sand it down and put another coat on and get it stained.. in about.... 4 hours... though it took me longer because i just would work on it for about 10-15 mins at a time.... Im already yelling at one of my guys on my team because he wants to buy a thompson lol. I want to get as many M1's into sport as possible. Thanks for sparking my interest!!! -Cary
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 28, 2007 20:49:58 GMT -5
Something you might try that will add additional realism to your lower stock. Drill a bunch of holes in the stock around the mag well and down in front. Insert tiny screws and screw them in just far enough to create the tapered heavier shape of an actual Garand stock. These screws will serve as a kind of rebar for extra layers of bondo that you can smear on and use to replicate the thicker M1 Garand stock. It will also build up the area around the mag well so your shortened clips are more flush. I've done a couple like that and they come out quite nice. A lot of extra work but since you're already using bondo it's worth considering. Smear it on thick and then file and sand it down to the desired shape.
I then, rough sand the lines of a wood grain and then paint in the rough shade I want to end up with and then coat with a thinned out black wash of darker paint and spray with a dull coat lacquer to protect the finish.
I don't do this extra work with my finished conversions as they seem to be well accepted the way they are but for folks really striving for precise Garand dimensions it's worthwhile extra step.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Mar 29, 2007 17:07:39 GMT -5
Mhmm, i will have to try that. One question i do have. are you selling shortend clips?? Or do you have instructions on how to do it. Im not soo good in that department. -Cary
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 30, 2007 14:09:09 GMT -5
That's perhaps the hardest part and the area that required the most time, trial and effort and frustration. The build up of the stocks to replicate the Garand shape is also fairly challenging and not for the feint of heart. I've done two that way so far and it's not something that would justify the effort on ones I plan to sell. Similarly the time required shortening the mags doesn't make good commercial sense. I do them 10 at a time as doing a bunch at once is about the same amount of effort and time dedication as doing one.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Apr 1, 2007 16:18:16 GMT -5
ya, i think im going to just be using my hicaps for a while The gun still looks good even w/ that... -Cary
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 3, 2007 0:46:18 GMT -5
Here was a great PM from Screaming Eagle101st who wrote:
"I can assure you I’ve never been so happy to see a cardboard box as I was today. using a combination of scissors, hands, machettes, and teeth I had it open on my kitchen counter in under a minute lol. When you told me I would enjoy the gun you were absolutely right. every inch of your work is as beautiful as it is well planned and made. the wood/plastic color match is spot on and has a great feel to it. the forward end of the gun is truly as real as it looks and all your extra efforts are clearly shown. I feel proud to own such a rare piece of airsoft history and my only regret is that I didn’t buy one sooner. It feels and shoots great."
I enjoy building these but messages like that really make my week. Thanks Screaming Eagle 101st and get me some pictures of you with the weapon and thanks for allowing me to quote you. Now get out there and start plinking Krauts!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 13, 2007 15:00:48 GMT -5
I continue to get inquries and orders for these guns which is great. In response to a recent spat of questions. I just this week finished three guns that coincidently represented the three main shades of stocks that you can order. I shipped four guns this week which for me is a record. I have about five more in the queu in various states or readiness waiting to go out with some unfortunately waiting on parts which I hope to get in this week. The guns would then go out the following week or possibly into the next week. (I'm cranking them out as fast as I can. Here are some pictures of the stock shades and variations: Dark Walnut / Blonde and Medium Shade Rear shot with the modified butt stocks from the original M-14s Note the shades of metal finish from light grey faded parkerization to aged field parkerization. They can also be solid flat black (New looking) Mixed metal finishes and the Dark Walnut are the most appropriate and authentic WW2 GI look from the period with the metal being the typical indication of how long one has been in the field. Solid Flat black metal would typically indicate a new replacement or newly issued replacement rifle I silver paint or sand the edges that would typically be worn for an aged look and I treat the stocks so they look battle used but not beat up. It's fun doing a variety of finishes. No two guns are identical at all so they truly are custom guns. A couple of these are Maruis and one is a AGM. They all include a WW2 OD web sling with a leather sling as a $20.00 additional cost option. It's still $560 for an AGM based and $700.00 for a Marui based rifle. Shipping to Europe has been 56.00 to 64.00 USPO shipping inside the US has been $18.00 and under. The box weights 15.8 pounds. I'm currently 3 weeks out on orders received. Thanks everyone for your support with this project and all the kind words of encouragement. I fill orders in relation to when funds are received. NOT when you PM me that you want one. I think it's the fairest way to handle it.
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click
Sergeant
Company G, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division
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Post by click on Apr 13, 2007 15:46:01 GMT -5
Excuse me while I pick my jaw up off the ground.......
Those are amazing simply and utterly amazing.
Click
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Cpl. Hicks
Sergeant
Unofficial Flaggrantly Wrong Weapons Policeman
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Post by Cpl. Hicks on Apr 13, 2007 15:50:46 GMT -5
I'll order one from you if you are still making them in 10 years.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 13, 2007 16:57:12 GMT -5
I'll probably be making them for the next four months or so until I get tired of it. My goal is to have 50 or 60 of them out there shooting historic enemies of the US in mock campaigns. I (and my customers) keep coming up with better and better ways to do them and I roll the design improverments into each one I make.
Making them 3 or four at a time really makes things go smoother and is much more efficient. Current sales are allowing me to do that which is great. The problem now is accumulating all the various parts as from time to time some of the bits just get real hard to get.
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Wanderer
Private
You can never have too much kit...
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Post by Wanderer on Apr 13, 2007 17:40:01 GMT -5
Fantastic comparison pics, 2ndBat. I'm drooling in anticipation of receiving my order. ;D
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Post by spitfire740 on Apr 14, 2007 19:48:15 GMT -5
I don't think there is anything else that I could say to express how amazing those look except for... Holy Crap! Each finish has it's own uniqe charachteristics. They all look beutiful, I can't wait until I recieve mine!
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Post by mauser98k on Apr 14, 2007 22:54:16 GMT -5
Amazing John, simply amazing. I am still saving up for a kit for my M-14! Which by the way you did a GREAT wood finish on. All of my friends drool over it.
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YankeeDiv26
Staff Sgt.
Frustrated Mac Owner
BDM<33
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Post by YankeeDiv26 on Apr 14, 2007 23:02:06 GMT -5
wow 2nd bat those look almost as good as mine does. sorry i havent gotten pics of my garand on here yet. i'm still waiting for my m7 launcher and rifle grenade along with my webgear (which is on the way). i'll be sure to put them up soon though.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 14, 2007 23:21:20 GMT -5
Yours (Screamingeagle) was the medium finish as I recall. They're all starting to run together in my head. I do recall that yours went out looking especially nice.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 19, 2007 0:29:42 GMT -5
This PM just came in from Spitfire. He bought the blonde rifle in the middle and just got it:
" Hello 2nd Bat,
I came home from school and saw this big brown box on my table. I saw my name on it and dropped my books and backpack in the middle of the room and lunged for the box! She is absolutely beautiful!!! I am a huge fan of the unique blonde wood and dark parkerization, my M1 came out spectacular, I couldn't have dreamed for it to be this good! When I showed my friends they almost fell to the floor in awe at how realistic it is. I can't wait to bring it to the next event! I put in a pre-charged 8.4v battery from my TM Thompson, and she shoots magnifcently!"
Thanks for the kind words again hearing compliments like that make the evenings and weekends building them worthwhile. I have three more going out this week with another order from Finland just in and an inquiry for two from Hungary which will be a first.
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Post by lindir on Apr 19, 2007 8:07:03 GMT -5
Just received mine today !!! I will post a review as soon as possible i'm at work at the moment. But I love it
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 20, 2007 12:54:58 GMT -5
A quick reminder to all who are interested in my Garand conversion. One of my recent customers received his rifle and was surprised to discover the main stock is plastic. (I guess I should be flattered but I thought this was quite clear) I want to make sure everyone realizes that the lower stock portion is an adaptaion of the M-14 stock. I sometimes assume people buying these custom guns have followed the complete thread about their design and production but apparently not.
So it's clear, I remove the butt plate flap, seal the holes with resin paste, fill the hollow areas and cut the stock down. I then file and sand the resin paste until it's shaped correctly. I then modify the Garand wood parts and metal bits so they will attach and stay secure, while allowing full function of the gun and dissasembly. I finish and treat the plastic parts so they look more like wood and fairly closely match the shade of the actual Garand wooden parts. (Real Garands aren't perfect in this regard either) I paint the butt plate so it looks more like a Garand and check everything for operation. I paint the gun metal according to the customers wishes. (New replacement all flat black, Medium grey parkerization evenly applied or an aged field weapon look. The green tinge on the aged guns is accurate and common due to the effects of cosmoline and cleaning solvent on the real gun in the field. The amount of aging is different with each gun and won't match the pictures of the guns I've built in the past exactly because every gun is done individually. These are custom built one at a time! If the customer wishes to age their metal further they can sand the edges of some of the metal parts on the receiver group barrel and butt plate. This will work great but I leave that up to every individual owner.
I apologize if some of this wasn't clear.
Before I ship I make sure the gun is operating properly I turn the hop up off and chrono and allow the customer to adjust the hop up to their satisfaction and according to the weight of BBs they wish to use. In both a Marui and a Marui clone this is a somewhat time consuming and precision effort (especially the AGM rifles)
On earlier rifles shipped I did not include a thorough Garand specific owners manual which I just completed a couple weeks ago. I did include the assembly manual on all the guns shipped in the past two weeks.
If you purchased a current designed Garand conversion (Not the prototypes or G&G or Airsoft Club rifles I no longter produce) So, in either the Marui or AGM and didn't get this new Owners manual let me know and I will send it to you promptly. It covers care and maintenance, how to adjust the hop up, how to load the clips, adjust the sites, mount the batteries etc.
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