2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 27, 2006 19:52:33 GMT -5
Apparently in the newest edition of NATIONAL AIRSOFT MAGAZINE there is a hatchet job on Battlesim. I will be anxious to read it.
I will reserve comments until I do so. There is as you might imagine some interesting history between the two parties that I doubt he'll mention. I'm rolled into the mess as well so it no doubt will get interesting.
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Sept 27, 2006 21:20:00 GMT -5
I've heard of other people having problems with NAM magazine as well. NAM magazine swears that they invented the scenario for a Resident Evil style game. If I remember correctly the feild that hosted the RE games had been doing it prior to the NAM magazine article on and Zombi type game. NAM even threatened them with legal action. Go figure, the only airsoft magazine in the US is a bunch of loonies.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 29, 2006 20:20:05 GMT -5
So it would seem. Send them an e-mail with your thoughts. (not that they'd publish a desenting perspective) but it would be good for them to be reminded how out to lunch they are.
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Post by baconandeggs on Oct 2, 2006 6:20:18 GMT -5
That's quite humorous, as "zombie" type games have been around in scenario paintball since the mid 1980's, at least. Nice try NAM....what's next, claims they invented the wheel?
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YankeeDiv26
Staff Sgt.
Frustrated Mac Owner
BDM<33
Posts: 2,462
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Post by YankeeDiv26 on Oct 2, 2006 11:02:50 GMT -5
dood no joke they co-invented the internet with al gore
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Post by smokeythebear on Oct 2, 2006 20:21:20 GMT -5
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its peanut butter jelly time peanut butter jely peanut jelly peanut butter jelly with a baseball bat
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Oct 2, 2006 20:54:41 GMT -5
Way to just post some of the most INANE things I've ever seen. See yah later!
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 2, 2006 21:07:23 GMT -5
What the hell was that all about
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 2, 2006 21:30:53 GMT -5
I still haven't read the article and hate to fund their slime rag but I am curious soooooo.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 2, 2006 21:42:31 GMT -5
Their initial issue was with me not Helmutt. I was holding RECONDO school sessions which they claimed was "Their idea" and they had copywrited it. The editors Father in Law is the primary instructor and was a Green Beret. He's a great guy as we have spoken for years about both their course and mine. He knows better then to assume any ownership on the term RECONDO.
He also admitted to me that he had never attended or taught at a RECONDO school or attended or graduated from RANGER school. He agrees that my 30 plus years of background with RECONDO school gives me a little precedence over his but his son in law is a man with no such sense of history.
I am amazed he feels he owns zombie themed games. But with his whole RECONDO threats and brain damage (Threatens to sue!!!!!) nothing should surprise me. I think frankly it's just good exposure for Battlesim.com
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 3, 2006 0:04:50 GMT -5
Our group watched thier biohazard video it was very amusing to us we have been doing Universal soldier and zombie games for years and find their video good instruction on 1. how not to run a zombie game and 2. how not to shoot a video of it....
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 3, 2006 2:05:40 GMT -5
It'll be interesting to see if Helmutts hits go up on his site which would indicate that folks do in fact read the magazine. (Even bad publicity is good if no one knows you exist.) I'd be curious to know what their true circulation is. If I had to guess I'd think it was quite low. Local shops have dropped it as no one buys it and they end up throwing them out.
In glancing through it in the past I have often wondered why anyone would buy it? These days for a select and unique hobby like ours I would guess web sites is where most folks get their info and I can't think of too many things one might pick up in a magazine that isn't available for free.
Maybe I'm missing something. Let me think...product reviews, events, advertisements, new releases, clubs resources to suport the hobby Hmmmmmmm Maybe its the slick, four color beautiful production qaulity of the magazine. Nope that's definitely not it.
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Post by MajorTeleon on Oct 3, 2006 7:26:29 GMT -5
My Team and sponsor tried to deal with NAM as well. My personal experience with them is that they are not worth even talking to.
Also, I personally know the guy that NAM was going to try and sue over the zombie style game.
Just to let everyone know; NAM did not keep any deal that was made with this guy and they also royally destroyed the whole concept of the game. NAM imposed ridiculous rules and FPS limits on guns. NAM also took all of the proceeds from the OP and left the field owner with nothing but a small advertisement. To even top that NAM did not recognize the other Airsoft retailers and sponsors of the event. For example I know that one sponsor in particular donated at least 1 G&G M14 with all the recall parts replaced with upgrades. I know other shizer was donated as well and none of those vendors got the promised advertisement.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 3, 2006 9:48:42 GMT -5
My team's sponsor supplied an AEG for one of thier games and was never mentioned as a sponsor he was less than pleased. He even bought a full page back cover ad from them and He doesn't believe it netted him much. We have offered to do write ups on our events and they have turned those down. It seems like the only events they cover are those they are personally involved in but that might not be true.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 3, 2006 11:52:59 GMT -5
I have heard that repeatedly. That the primary purpose for their magazine is to promote "Their" events. There is of course nothing wrong with that once people realize that that is the case. In the meantime other supporters and sponsors get hosed like the ones mentioned. Imagine donating a custom AEG and not even get mentioned.
I tried speaking with the guy on the phone and he was just as irrational on the phone as he is in posts and threads where he rants. Resorting to a threat to use your "Bully pulpit" to get enrollment fees for an event you're not even putting on and clearly did not create as an original concept is unconcionable. I'm proud of Helmutt for not caving in to his threat or reacting negatively to this loon.
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Post by Guinness on Oct 9, 2006 2:05:21 GMT -5
Well we have a pretty darn good membership and readership, as well many of us have very good contacts in the Airsoft industry and retailing scene.
I say we 'turn up the heat' a bit by adding some disclaimers similar to what we do with WWIIGuns.
-G
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Post by Guinness on Oct 9, 2006 15:54:08 GMT -5
Well, It sounds to me like the 'plaintiff' is kinda feeling like "Bad publicity is still Publicity".
So if that's HellMutt's stance, then who am I to blow against the wind?
Let us know if you change your mind bro, We have a very crafty bunch here!
-G
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 9, 2006 16:55:13 GMT -5
Helmutts being too nice about all this which is frankly very smart. It'll be interesting to see if he has a spike in hits that might indicate the NAM magazine even has a readership that cares. I for one doubt it. If so that's awesome and helmutt will have to eventually write a thank you letter to the editor for the free attention and publicity.
I think the more people exposed to the cool things helmutt does the more his business will grow and the more cool, new, innovative things he'll be able to do that we who go to his events will be able to enjoy. Knock yourself out NAM magazine. I do think several of us need to express directly to NAM how ludicrous the article is (not that they'll publish any of the responses.)
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 10, 2006 0:04:24 GMT -5
I finally read the article. Three pages of pure unadulterated nonsense. They refered to me as an old geiser. (That's the only part that was accurate.) In letters to the editor, obvious Mike Force Airsoft RECONDO school graduates attacked their own head instructor and threatened to throw away their Mike Force RECONDO school patches as they said since Dr King (their Green Beret Instructor) was unwilling to argue against us, he somehow took away from the lessons they had learned. The editor of NAM magazine said Valve and John Lu were unwilling to go after Helmutt because they were too busy and Dr King was unwilling to go after Battlesim because he was a coward. Maybe all three failed to see the offense. Certainly none of them saw it as anywhere near the offense NAM magazine and the Mike Force RECONDO school students did. John Lu is very busy. Certainly too busy to be tramatized by an event called Kitty Paws to somehow see it as a franchise ripoff of his Lion Claws series. This was one of their allegations. It seems to me that would be John Lus fight not NAM magazines. John Lu has a much deserved sense of pride in the Lion Claws series he's created and is understandably possesive about it. He also has a great sense of humor and saw it for the humorous parody it was. The magazine alleged that my RECONDO school Course ripped off their by teaching the same content. Let me think....Patrolling , ambush skills small unit tactics gosh what a flaggrant rip off that is! Uhmmmmmmm if you send your son off to little league baseball school I'm guessing they're going to cover fielding, throwing and catching! They said I copied his lesson plans. I've never laid eyes on them. He did share his ambush material in a cordial exchange after the event (I shared my observation sheets and course agenda.) They said I offered to let him teach a class at several of my events. That's true as did he for his. Neither of us were able to fit it in. Not from a lack of willingness but from a lack of time. His failure to attack me or the RECONDO school was certainly not because he's a coward. (Far from it) but because he's a gentleman. Obviously not a subject covered at his RECONDO school but clearly one that needs to be covered somewhere. He ordered them all to stand down when this all hit the thread sites way back when. They obviously chose not to obey his direct orders.
Somebody needs to remind all airsofters from time to time. That they are talking about AIRSOFT. It's supposed to be fun and games. It's not life and death, it's playing army. I personally understand the difference very well. My course is built around having fun in a fantasy immersion of the time. Living History was as much a part of the event as the subjects covered. The focus was more on skills and small unit leadership and historical appreciation as the subject matter. Perhaps the quotes and comments from our students was seen as a threat to their course. The army had a myriad of RECONDO schools offered by the various brigades and divisions. Each would claim it was the best. I attended and graduated from two of them and taught at still another. They were all excellent, none identical. I'm sure their course is very good and they gained a great deal of positive lessons from it. Why in the world isn't that enough?
My final comment is one that I should have thought of long before I read the article. NAM magazine is primarily a front to promote the events the editor puts on. Bio hazrd, The Mike Force RECONDO school and others. Events are the editors primary revenue stream. Any diatribe attacking a competitor starting to recieve national recognition and regional success is suspect in my book. The real motive behind the whole article should be obvious to anyone. Claiming possession of a term like RECONDO and Zombie style games is ludicrous. Its like me claiming I did WW2 airsoft games first therefore no one else can!!!!! Yikes!!!!! There was a NAM magazine before their rag only it was about the real thing. There was RECONDO school before their RECONDO school only it was the real thing.
The editor REAPER is a piece of work.
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Post by Guinness on Oct 10, 2006 0:52:21 GMT -5
Well, one thing seems obvious, this group of individuals has no integrity. Now to many people, that statement will roll right off their backs like water off a duck- However to those of us that have actually been in the service[/b], that is pretty much the harshest criticisim one could ever receive. Being in the service of your country does something to a person- It changes your attitudes about many things- not the least important being one's sense of honor and well, this may sound trite, but it's true, one's sense of right and wrong. I would be very surprised if any of those Mike Force grad's had ever spent a second doing anything more than 'playing Army' in their lives, and your description of the instructors and their attitude of not being able to be bothered by this petty distraction in fact seems like the brand of leadership I remember from being in. At least that part is reassuring. This is disgraceful and a sad commentary on what post-coldwar life in America has become. God please let these kids and the wanna-be adults connected to this STAY the HELL out of MY Military because, and follow me on this- this is exactly the type of thing that leads to the types of horror stories we are reading about from Iraq- Soldiers brutalizing and savaging Iraqui citizenry- A stretch you say? not IMHO...why? because these people HAVE NO HONOR and with no Honor there is no Integrity- and without that, we descend into chaos. I honor and support all of our brave fighting men deployed anywhere on the globe- But I am absolutely repelled by this type of dishonorable behavior, because I know where it ultimately leads- Innocent lives lost. ....Wow, now that I have 'vented my spleen' so to speak, what can we do? Well for starters, I'm sending as much detail as I can put together to a reasonably well known Airsoft 'dignitary', You probably know him as "Arnie" yeah, he has a little Airsoft website that has been popular for a while now, and he in fact is a man of Honor and Integrity- As soon as he learns of this I would hope that he reconsiders his support of NAM and their disgraceful activities. -G -John, do you have a copy of the articles that you could scan for me? I'm certainly not going to spend money on that rag and support them. -Disclaimer-[/b] No offence meant towards any members of this forum that have not been in the Military (yet )- It is obvious to me time and again that the readers and members of this website whether or not they have actually served do in fact have a sense of honor and decency that sets you guys above the pack, Well Done! Further, these opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of this board, the Officers of the WW2AA group or its readers. -Guinness
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Post by smokeythebear on Oct 10, 2006 14:54:58 GMT -5
very well put so congrats
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 10, 2006 18:24:05 GMT -5
Guinness. I read the magazine at a retail outlet. Gosh it's a cheap and poorly done periodical! (In fairness it's better then any I've written so I should shut up about that) At any rate, I suspect if I were to scan and transmit and part of their article I'd be in violation of copywrite laws and they would probably have some legitimacy in pursuing me for it.
I'm not sure how Arnies will cover such a dispute but I'm sure Battlesim would love the added exposure. Everyone enjoys a good cat fight!!!!!! These pussys are about as catty as anyone I've seen in airsoft. meooooow!
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Oct 13, 2006 22:36:08 GMT -5
You can see the words "The truth about Battlesim.com" on the cover of this... www.nationalairsoftmagazine.com/index.htmlMight have to run down to Barnes and Noble after school and read/vandalize it. Their site looks like crap, and I don't know anyone who reads it. The Asian airsoft magazines are much cooler, even if I can only look at the pictures >.< I personally think you could write better JD. "Buyer Beware The truth about BattleSim.com" Nice try NAM, you brainless deeks. As soon as I read the article, I'm sending out a nice letter to that "editor" of theirs.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 13, 2006 23:57:43 GMT -5
Thanks for your supporting comments. If you have a legitimate comment after reading the article, good bad or indifferent. Please do send a letter off to the editor. I'm sure none of the letters that are supportive of Battlesim or me will get published but it'd be interesting for this fellow REAPER to hear how people are reacting to his incredibly slanted perspective on everything.
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Russianboy
Private 1st Class
Oberscharf?hrer
Posts: 502
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Post by Russianboy on Oct 23, 2006 20:53:13 GMT -5
Just some thing to add, After being on there forum for a while now. I think there all crazy.
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