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Post by flectarn on Sept 14, 2010 17:34:09 GMT -5
I don't think you really know what you're talking about. Making assumptions and then trying to pass them as fact doesn't fly for this, or similar, hobbies.
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Post by 10target on Sept 15, 2010 15:25:13 GMT -5
Lay off tubby, I wasn't making assumptions I was giving my opinion of TS over EDRL. If you have a problem about that then you can get your insecure self out of this thread and stop hassling me. TS as a historical fact was also implemented more in the Veitnam War, where as EDRL not so as much. EDRL is great, but in my opinion TS does better on blending in, at least for my loacation.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 15, 2010 16:14:50 GMT -5
The reason TS was used more during the war has nothing to do with it being better than ERDL , it has to do with the fact that TS was being used by the ARVNs when the Americans got to Vietnam , the Advisers liked it and was more readily available than any other camo at the time. ERDL on the other hand was tested in 1966 by members of the 101st and 173rd LRRP teams , which found it a lot better as far as concealment than the TS they had been using before , so they recommended that ERDL be distributed theater wide for use . The field tests did probe that the ERDL pattern was much better suited for jungle conditions than TS , that is a fact.
Also don't call people names guys , it ruins your credibility when you behave like a kid.
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Post by 10target on Sept 15, 2010 17:04:10 GMT -5
Just joking around about tubby. Anyways both are good camo's I just prefer ts better. Adler, I never said anything about blending in was the reason why they didn't use it more in veitnam I said I use ts more because it blends it to my surroundings better, sorry for your confusion.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 15, 2010 17:06:04 GMT -5
Tigerstripe works great for both night and day, with some of the EDRL you get light shading which totally throws you off. TS is always right on and great for jungle operations. EDRL is more woodland. Sorry for YOUR confusion man
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Post by 10target on Sept 15, 2010 17:10:44 GMT -5
I have no confusion going, haha. My expieriences with edrl will differ from yours and anyone elses, because you probably don't live in a Kentucky woodland enviorment. Once again sorry for your confusion, the edrl I have picked up from my surplus store has had verly light spots on it, so that's why I prefer ts. Confusion gone "magical sounds over your head."
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 15, 2010 17:21:24 GMT -5
Kentucky woods are much different from a Jungle . I happen to know a little about fighting a war in a heavy Jungle
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petermartin14
Private 1st Class
RIP Arne Andersson- Sweden's Finest
Posts: 639
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Post by petermartin14 on Sept 15, 2010 19:14:07 GMT -5
I have no confusion going, haha. My expieriences with edrl will differ from yours and anyone elses, because you probably don't live in a Kentucky woodland enviorment. Once again sorry for your confusion, the edrl I have picked up from my surplus store has had verly light spots on it, so that's why I prefer ts. Confusion gone "magical sounds over your head." sassy...
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Post by 10target on Sept 15, 2010 20:05:44 GMT -5
Peter I'm glad to see your still rank posting, on other forums they would kick your butt off in a heartbeat. And I'm aware Kentucky woods are not the same or even close to Veitnam jungles, but that's why I use ts. I live in KY you know.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 15, 2010 20:11:32 GMT -5
Good for you , maybe now you can stop bitching and post up your awesome TS layout.
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petermartin14
Private 1st Class
RIP Arne Andersson- Sweden's Finest
Posts: 639
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Post by petermartin14 on Sept 15, 2010 20:22:32 GMT -5
Peter I'm glad to see your still rank posting, on other forums they would kick your butt off in a heartbeat. And I'm aware Kentucky woods are not the same or even close to Veitnam jungles, but that's why I use ts. I live in KY you know. it dosent take "rank" to point out when someones being a smartass, or age. which i am sure is bothering you the most. and im sure my virtual computer butt would get kicked. and yes im pissing myself over this matter ;D
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 15, 2010 21:25:52 GMT -5
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Post by 10target on Sept 15, 2010 21:40:33 GMT -5
Who said it was awesome? All I have is a pair of pants and shirt, thanks for the compliment though. Also you were the one bitching not me, in fact you started it by telling me not to name call.
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petermartin14
Private 1st Class
RIP Arne Andersson- Sweden's Finest
Posts: 639
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Post by petermartin14 on Sept 15, 2010 21:47:31 GMT -5
Adler, where did you get that chest rig?
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 15, 2010 21:54:52 GMT -5
Peter i have had that Chicom for years , i think i got it in the mid '90s.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 15, 2010 23:21:15 GMT -5
Who said it was awesome? All I have is a pair of pants and shirt, thanks for the compliment though. Also you were the one bitching not me, in fact you started it by telling me not to name call. Pants are under ware , in the military they are called Trousers. Tops are called oddly enough Top or Blouse. And if you read a little more carefully you will notice i wrote GUYS , not your name. Anyways back on topic , anyone want to add an impression or do i need to post another one?
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petermartin14
Private 1st Class
RIP Arne Andersson- Sweden's Finest
Posts: 639
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Post by petermartin14 on Sept 16, 2010 5:40:39 GMT -5
il try to get my joke of a modern impression up here. dont wait up though.
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Sept 16, 2010 6:08:35 GMT -5
Who said it was awesome? All I have is a pair of pants and shirt, thanks for the compliment though. Also you were the one bitching not me, in fact you started it by telling me not to name call. Pants are under ware , in the military they are called Trousers. Tops are called oddly enough Top or Blouse. Thank you so much for saying that! I hate it when guys in the UK talk about 'pants' when they mean trousers, i just have visions of them walking about in their underwear. In the UK pants is either an abbreviation of 'underpants' (which tends to suggest that the above trousers *are* 'pants') or its a slang word for something thats lame or rubbish In the UK military the terminology is legs - trousers (occasionally 'combats' or 'lightweights', 'tropicals' depending on the type. body - shirt jackets - nearly always called a smock rucksack - bergan We havent used 'blouse' for the upper body since the 1950s when we fased out battle dress that came as 'trousers' and 'blouse'. You can 'blouse' your smock though which means using the bottom drawcors as a belt to fold up the bottom of you smock so you can throw kit/mags down the top as a dump pouch (called a 'brecon pocket' as its used a lot on exercises in brecon when you've got to retain mags but you get through tons of them!)... blousing the smock also lifts it off your arse so that when you sit down you only get your trousers muddy!
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Sept 16, 2010 6:12:36 GMT -5
Oh and cracking impression Adler.
I remember reading that it was south vietnamese marines who originally used tiger stripe, only they called it 'wave pattern'. Tiger stripe IIRC works very well in primary jungle with the patterns of light and dark that filter through the canopy but is not very diverse. One of the reasons the US govenment didnt consider a camo pattern for vietnam was that they felt that the topogrpahy was far too diverse for any one pattern to be useful.
Then again the US givernment has been searching for a pattern that works for the last 60 years. If you look at the ammount of camo variants the US has used to date its quite staggering compared to comparable nations.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 16, 2010 7:32:16 GMT -5
Don't worry because now we FINALLY have...ACU. The ultimate camo....if you are hiding on a floral print couch.... :rolleyes:
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Post by Fusilier on Sept 16, 2010 8:31:38 GMT -5
Don't worry because now we FINALLY have...ACU. The ultimate camo....if you are hiding on a floral print couch.... :rolleyes: >> Ah, but that is soon to be HISTORY! The Army is finally going to Multicam! Units in A'Stan are already wearing it.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 16, 2010 9:12:06 GMT -5
The R&D money being wasted on looking for a new camo pattern that will work in all environments and terrain is just beyond stupid , the U.S Military should do what the Austrians did and say F****t we are going back to solid O.D and if we need camo we'll borrow some from someone else.
The miracle pattern that every 13 year kid plays airsoft swears by has actually been in country in Afghanistan with the 173rd for over a year , SF troopers and a few select Legs have been testing 5 different patterns for the last 3 months , everything from UCP-DELTA to MIRAGE CAMO , with mix results , ACU works really good in parts of Afghanistan.
Camo is just another tool , if you know how to use it then no matter what pattern you wear it will conceal you , i have worn ACU since it came out and have been able to remain undetected from kids and adults wearing the miracle pattern who walk through the woods like a herd of Guy on a short bused elephants and taken many of them out.
Multiscam was tested here at Ft. Lewis many years ago , only it wasn't called multiscam then it was called SCORPION pattern and it was found not to be the miracle pattern everyone hoped it would be.
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Post by 10target on Sept 16, 2010 11:36:47 GMT -5
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who dislikes ACU.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 16, 2010 13:40:15 GMT -5
Here in the Southeast Adler we have found ACU really does stand out in the bush. I can see where it would be effective in arrid locations but Multicam seems overall better in most situations I have seen. I do agree OD is probably the way to go. Sit your ass still in OD and you will camo'd pretty well. The eyes see movement first.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 16, 2010 13:53:05 GMT -5
A friend of mine was part of the ACU , SCORPION test program up here in Ft. Lewis and he said the test unit was kind of mixed in what they liked and didn't like about both patterns , ACU once it went through a couple of ours of use tended to bend better because the mud and grime made the pixel patterns in the uniform work to conceal you , where as SCORION just got darker and the body shapes stood out. In the end it came down to the decision of the test panel that read all the reports and decided on ACU.
Funny thing is that while the test was going on , CCU uniforms where being used by the STRYKER troops in both WOODLAND and 3 COLOR DAY DESERT patterns , so you would see all 4 camo patterns around base.
Another funny thing is that even though ACU is the official Army camo , Future Warrior troopers on base use MULTICAM.
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click
Sergeant
Company G, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division
Posts: 1,764
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Post by click on Sept 16, 2010 17:41:54 GMT -5
I heard that several branches of the military are going to be researching two patterns again similar to the BDU/DCU concept that all the services will use the same one across the board.
I dont doubt that the Marines will fight tooth and nail to keep their fantastic patterns from being carbon copied, or worse, taken away from them for a worse pattern in the name of military cohesion.
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Post by Fusilier on Sept 16, 2010 19:50:34 GMT -5
I wore both ACU and woodland. ACU just plain does not work here in the States or Europe in a woodland environment. Multicam is better than both woodland and ACU. Acu was designed not as camo per se,but to cut down on Blue on Blue casualties. Velcro pockets,bad idea! The whole idea was to save Soldiers money having to replace lost buttons. Well,when I was in,I RARELY lost a button,and if I did,I sewed them on myself. And sending them to post tailors was cheap anyway,so.. I'm all for Multicam,but with buttons,no velcro.
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petermartin14
Private 1st Class
RIP Arne Andersson- Sweden's Finest
Posts: 639
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Post by petermartin14 on Sept 16, 2010 19:51:40 GMT -5
sorry for the poor quality of the photo.
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Cpl. Hicks
Sergeant
Unofficial Flaggrantly Wrong Weapons Policeman
Posts: 1,425
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Post by Cpl. Hicks on Sept 16, 2010 21:00:05 GMT -5
Haha, the Osama poster makes the outfit more humourous. Peter I'm glad to see your still rank posting, on other forums they would kick your butt off in a heartbeat. And I'm aware Kentucky woods are not the same or even close to Veitnam jungles, but that's why I use ts. I live in KY you know. wtf Lookin' good as always Adler, it just looks a bit... clean...
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Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 16, 2010 21:26:34 GMT -5
A young Jack "Keith" Idema in the making....look him up...lol
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