Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Sept 17, 2007 18:58:41 GMT -5
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Post by Jager.Drü on Sept 17, 2007 19:05:41 GMT -5
Its not like Blackwater Inc. is the only firm there, there are at least 10 others. I don't really think they will get in any trouble, they operate above the law. They'll get a smack on the hand and then go back to work.
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Cpl. Hicks
Sergeant
Unofficial Flaggrantly Wrong Weapons Policeman
Posts: 1,425
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Post by Cpl. Hicks on Sept 17, 2007 19:12:09 GMT -5
I wonder if they will even actually leave...
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Sept 17, 2007 19:24:26 GMT -5
I don't really think they will get in any trouble, they operate above the law. Above what law?
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Post by KippySmi7h on Sept 17, 2007 19:28:48 GMT -5
They're taking people that killed civilians out of Iraq? That article is confusing.
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Sept 17, 2007 19:31:02 GMT -5
They're taking people that killed civilians out of Iraq? That article is confusing. You are familiar with Private Contracting, no?
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Post by KippySmi7h on Sept 17, 2007 19:34:23 GMT -5
I have no idea what that is.
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Sept 17, 2007 19:37:26 GMT -5
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Post by KippySmi7h on Sept 17, 2007 19:42:01 GMT -5
Ok I gotcha.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Sept 17, 2007 20:36:27 GMT -5
Yes above the law. They are up there with the military. They do what they want over there. They could/would drive on the wrong way of the freeway. Post up on buildings and take pop shots at people. They were also down south after hurican Katrina. They were "deptuized" and roam the streets in unmarked cars keeping the "peace" and fighting with the gangs that were looting the houses. In browsing their site www.blackwaterusa.com. I haven't found any news releases about this. Not trying to bad mouth any contractors. I know one personal, his a cool guy.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Sept 17, 2007 20:48:54 GMT -5
I thought about joining Black Water at one point, didnt think it would be a bad gig. Actually I'm still thinking about it. -Cary
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 17, 2007 20:56:46 GMT -5
Not trying to bad mouth any contractors. I know one personal, his a cool guy. Same one i know huh ? he actually called me for the deployment after Katrina with a damn great deal to join them, and he called me when he went over to Iraq.
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Post by polak on Sept 17, 2007 21:11:48 GMT -5
I thought about joining Black Water at one point, didnt think it would be a bad gig. Actually I'm still thinking about it. -Cary You have any experience, or a DD214? But yeah, we need private contractors. So booting out Blackwater, no matter how smart the decision, was stupid. They know what they're doing.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Sept 17, 2007 21:12:33 GMT -5
Hes with Blackwater? I just saw that they have a new Maritime group opening up.
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Post by 5thrangerinfantry on Sept 18, 2007 6:54:24 GMT -5
Yes above the law. They are up there with the military. They do what they want over there. They could/would drive on the wrong way of the freeway. Post up on buildings and take pop shots at people. They were also down south after hurican Katrina. They were "deptuized" and roam the streets in unmarked cars keeping the "peace" and fighting with the gangs that were looting the houses. In browsing their site www.blackwaterusa.com. I haven't found any news releases about this. Not trying to bad mouth any contractors. I know one personal, his a cool guy. the military is above the law? that must be why so many have been put on trial for misdeeds....
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Post by Tough Ombre on Sept 18, 2007 8:14:19 GMT -5
I thought about joining Black Water at one point, didnt think it would be a bad gig. Actually I'm still thinking about it. -Cary You have any experience, or a DD214? No, but im still ironing things out, and looking into it. im only 16 at this Point. -Cary
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 18, 2007 12:40:18 GMT -5
The private contrators is the untold tragedy of Iraq. Many have been wounded and killed and that total doesn't show up in the casualty lists that typically get published. On the flip side they operate almost without restraint and in many cases undo some of the positive civil affairs work done by our military. A local tribal cheif makes a deal with a US unit and things are going along just fine and them some Blackwater cowboys either start shooting up an area or get publickly drunk or try to womanize the local inhabitants and "poof" there goes the cooperation. It happens daily in Iraq and doesn't get reported except by my friends in the US Military who are frustrated as hell about it.
I think hindsight will show that the privatization of our miltary operation instead of utilizing more Iraqi's in the role will prove our undoing. Balckwater I'm sure has a relationship with Haliburton. I'm certainly not suggesting that all Blackwater operatives are scum bags just a significant enough number of them to render them ineffective in a political conflict where winning hearts and minds defines victory.
Blackwater should have been thrown out a year ago but probably will still be there a year from now.
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azeeze
Private 1st Class
Posts: 622
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Post by azeeze on Sept 18, 2007 14:07:40 GMT -5
Private contractors make alot of money thats why alot of soldiers after they serve there time join private contractor organizations. -Nick
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Post by polak on Sept 18, 2007 14:40:13 GMT -5
Everyone's got an opinion. The point of using Private companies was to free up the military, and being shorthanded is not a great option. Yet, I don't know how their possible connection to Halliburton and their leading to our undoing makes much sense or matters on a global scale. We've been making surprising headway, and it's what the media doesn't tell us that counts, whether it's CNN, Fox, or the screaming hippie waving IWW signs. I'm quite sure Blackwater is knee-deep in all sorts of muck. It comes along with the duty they perform.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 19, 2007 0:19:03 GMT -5
I know the point and understand that our Military is stretched to say the least. Instead of private contrators operating with virtually no restraints doing in some cases very very damaging things from a PR perspective in the eyes of anyone decent (or smart) the Iraqi military should have been left somewhat intact and put to work straightening things out in Iraq.
Blackwater and most of the private contrator operations at this point are increasingly destructive to our needs in the region and need to be phased out as does our apparent military presence. The common man in Iarq has to see an ever increasing Iraqi face controlling their security if we are ever going to achieve our goals in that country.
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Post by polak on Sept 19, 2007 13:04:21 GMT -5
You've got to remember where we get the news sources of these destructive groups.
But, sure. We could have left the Iraqi military together, but it would not have improved our situation in such a manner that would allow us to shorten our stay. Really, the reorganization, if we do intend on staying and doing the job, will prepare the Iraqis for when others invade. Many districts are already totally controlled by Iraqi forces. But again, we can't rely on mainstream mass communication sources for legitimate news, setting it back on topic.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 19, 2007 14:49:37 GMT -5
I'm basing my comments on candid remarks from friends in the US military who are there now! Perhaps there is some professional envy motivating their remarks but I really don't think so.
The US military has been very concious of rules of deportment with regard to Muslim sensitivities (respect for women, use of liquor etc.) Failure to do so results in repercussions. The Contractors have been far more loose with the rules and the Iraqis see them as Americans so the impact is pronounced.
Like all counter insurgencies this is a PR war first and formost.
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YankeeDiv26
Staff Sgt.
Frustrated Mac Owner
BDM<33
Posts: 2,462
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Post by YankeeDiv26 on Sept 19, 2007 15:23:51 GMT -5
I've heard something along the same lines as 2nd bat's points. One of my friends over there now is a major and has to deal with muslim sensitivities nearly on a daily basis. He's in afghanastan so I really cant say much about his opinions on Iraq, but in his neck of the woods, the situations becoming more hostile. They used to ride in convoys consisting of just local SUV"s (more low profile) up until a few weeks ago when they saw increased RPG, mortar, and IED attacks and have since switche to armored Humvee's. He'll usually make it into town with a patrol or on a "winning hearts and minds" mission usually to deliver shoes or water on a near-daily basis. As a former teacher, he has a soft spot for the kids of aphghanastan, and they're also the only ones who he's absolutely sure are innocent. I've been trying to get something together to send over old childrens (and adults if you're willing) shoes, hopefully sneakers. so please dont go throwing any away. There are people who need them.
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Post by p51 on Sept 19, 2007 21:05:00 GMT -5
I guess I can now kiss my "contingency plan" goodbye if I ever decided to leave my day job… The funny thing, no kidding, was that some time after 9-11, I did get contacted by someone who wanted folks with a logistics background who had "some special warfare training," and they knew of my training with 1st SF GP (which wasn't all that much). I never got them to tell me how they knew all that or who told them about me, or who they were, for that matter. But I did realize what it amounted to, and I politely declined an interview, even though I was going to be in Seattle the day they were interviewing folks. To this day, I wonder if it was Blackwater calling. No, I don't regret declining their offer one bit. My day job now pays more than I'd be making for uncle Sam had I stayed in anyway. Besides, what good is a high-paying, tax-free job when you're dead, or wounded with no benefits?
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Post by polak on Sept 19, 2007 21:06:24 GMT -5
I'm basing my comments on candid remarks from friends in the US military who are there now! Perhaps there is some professional envy motivating their remarks but I really don't think so. The US military has been very concious of rules of deportment with regard to Muslim sensitivities (respect for women, use of liquor etc.) Failure to do so results in repercussions. The Contractors have been far more loose with the rules and the Iraqis see them as Americans so the impact is pronounced. Like all counter insurgencies this is a PR war first and formost. True. I've got two cousins and an uncle over there, so I'm plenty enriched with the situation, and they all will still agree that the primary reason for persistency with the insurgency is public opinion in the US. My father is going over to Iraq to work as a contractor in a month, and he has been given plenty of information on what's going on over there. And it's not like we've got a choice as far as cultural sensitivity goes. These people have known nothing other than religious life and totalitarian dictatorship, so any wrong move could make them snap and take up arms. Also, we've got cameras everywhere, and making our (distorted) image look any worse would only fuel the insurgency.
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Post by Guinness on Oct 4, 2007 22:04:29 GMT -5
yeah...I'd say Blackwater is done-
If anyone has friends working there, they might want to start seeking alternate employment.
However with over 600 mil in defense contracts, I'm sure our rich uncle with find something for them to do.
How about convoy security just not in Iraqi metropolitan areas? Where ya might be tempted to saturate the entire area with lead at the slightest movement.
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