TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
|
Post by TommyGunner on Dec 21, 2007 23:51:44 GMT -5
Alright nam softing has been soemthign I have had some increasing interest in. I have been considering sticking with my love for the USMC and trying to do an early vietnam war USMC. I have started to look into getting some web gear but research is going kinda slow for what I need for a Vietnam USMC impression seeing as I dont know what I really do need to get. So I guess Im asking what would I need for an early war USMC impression. And also what would be a good M-16A1 to buy. Im not looking to buy a very expensive version becuase I also want to cary all reall cap 20rnd mags. Here is one I was loking at, anyone have experiance with this www.kapowwe.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=m16a1-v1-jin-gong&Category_Code=High-Grade-AEGs&Store_Code=RI guess you have to copy and past the whole link, also take out the space. TommyGunner
|
|
Cpl. Hicks
Sergeant
Unofficial Flaggrantly Wrong Weapons Policeman
Posts: 1,425
|
Post by Cpl. Hicks on Dec 22, 2007 0:36:31 GMT -5
Weapon-wise, do you happen to mean this one?: Can you spot the Flaggrantly Wrong part? ;D Also, check your local library for this book: Vietnam: US Uniforms in Colour PhotographsShould look like this: (Disregard the Amazon 'look inside' junk.) That book will give you a LOT of info of what uniforms and equipment to look for. Hope I was at least a bit of help!
|
|
TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
|
Post by TommyGunner on Dec 22, 2007 0:38:55 GMT -5
Ok Ill start lookgn for that book. Now besides the sight adjustment knob on the Jin gong rifle, is there anythig else wrong with it and will it pass for a Nam M-16A1?
TommyGunner
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 22, 2007 0:39:10 GMT -5
I'm by no means a USMC expert but I was alive and kicking back then so if memory serves me right:
If you're truly thinking early war 1965-66 you're going to want OD santeen cotton BDUs. a helmet with Marine Corp cover or simple burlap. White T-shirt and an M-14 not an M-16. Regular black boots (jungle boots for the Marines came later) WW2 style field pack with shelter half wrap.
Your web gear would most likely have been M-56 cotton webbing Later in the war type 2 jungle fatigues, jungle boots, flak vest and M16 with the smaller 20 round mags.
I know ADLER can set you and me right on all this. (probably with photos)
Odds are the answers can be found at either: Vietnamairsoft.com or Vietnamwarairsoft.com Both new sites with great information.
|
|
azeeze
Private 1st Class
Posts: 622
|
Post by azeeze on Dec 22, 2007 1:09:05 GMT -5
2nd Bat hit it on the dime, marines had m14's and I know they hated to give it up too when the m16 rolled around. I dont know if you have seen that episode of Mail Call when Gunny goes back to Vietnam but i noticed alot of marines on the first landing had packboards. -Nick
|
|
TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
|
Post by TommyGunner on Dec 22, 2007 1:10:42 GMT -5
Hmm ok then an M-14, I can do that, now I heard that the USMC Used the entire WW2 pack system along with the suspenders in I think the early part, But I also thought they used the M-56 webbing...
TommyGunner
|
|
azeeze
Private 1st Class
Posts: 622
|
Post by azeeze on Dec 22, 2007 1:14:41 GMT -5
Also I know the marines had a special belt for the m14 magazines it had buttons lined around belt so they stayed in place, like the button on the m1936 belt for a .45 mag holster or m1 carbine mag pouch. -Nick
|
|
TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
|
Post by TommyGunner on Dec 22, 2007 1:29:29 GMT -5
Damn I actually passed up an oppotunity to buy one of those types of belts once........
TommyGunner
|
|
azeeze
Private 1st Class
Posts: 622
|
Post by azeeze on Dec 22, 2007 1:35:48 GMT -5
Yea, i passed one an ebay a few months ago for 14$ , sh*t happens, but be patient and it will come along, you can use a regular OD pistol belt until you come across one. Just get the canvas m14 pouches like this www.charleyssurplus.com/M14%20SINGLE%20MAG%20POUCH.JPGhe has em for sale for 6.95 a piece, im no expert on vietnam surplus, but its gettin up there in price wise. -Nick
|
|
TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
|
Post by TommyGunner on Dec 22, 2007 2:11:24 GMT -5
One good thing is while my guy that I get Surplus Army stuff from is always light on the WW2 stuff he has a crap load of Vietnam stuff for Way Way cheap, M-16 mag pouches for $3 or even M-14 pouches for $4.
But still am I able to use my USMC P-41 Pack system and suspenders with an early war nam impression? or should I go with a full M-56 set up
TommyGunner
|
|
Cpl. Hicks
Sergeant
Unofficial Flaggrantly Wrong Weapons Policeman
Posts: 1,425
|
Post by Cpl. Hicks on Dec 22, 2007 2:17:19 GMT -5
Also, for early war, I believe some marine units wore the army-style OG107 fatigues. (not the jungle ones though.)
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 22, 2007 3:34:21 GMT -5
Yes they wore the cotton santeen fatigues. (tan belt where the Army wore navy blue) They were two pocket shirts intended to be worn tucked in (In the field they could be worn loose) As with all marine uniforms I am fairly sure they featured the globe and anchor on the pocket. The Marines featured collar rank long before the Army. Helmet cover was the Mitchell cover as with the Army I think but their shelter halves were often camo where Army were OD. Later they had jungle fatigues and by 69-70 Ripstop camo. Either way the distinctive Marine soft cap really sets them off from Army units.
The M-14 pouches each held one magazine so multiple pouches were worn on the belt. It ended up looking like an over sized Garand belt, A bandoleer or two with boxes of 20 rounds in each pocket would be the norm.
The Marines hated the M-16 as they received them in the field with little instruction and the worst part was the originals came with the wrong type of powder in the ammo. This caused fowling and chronic jams that cost many a Marine his life. The early M-16 didn't have the same breech metalergy most military rifles had and was designed for a different powder composition. Armalite and the military procurement departments seriously messed up on that. (One not talking to the other) The early M-16s also didn't have a bolt assist (which was added later) and the 5.56 rounds didn't properly seat in the breech even after very little firing. The harsh conditions of Vietnam all combined for a perfect storm of disaster.
An early war Marine impression would be very cool. The Marines were the first to conduct battalion sized operations in the war with large scale sweeps and hammer and anvil tactics. They probably better understood the notion of Hearts and Minds operations then the army and did more effective civil affairs operations then the Army.
While the Marines typically were equipped with weapons and gear considered obsolete by other branches (CH 3 Helicopters) they often were the first to receive new weapons and gear to test. They had a dedicated air wing (Marine aviators) and continued their excellent work in air to ground operations (From WW2 and Korea) long before it became the norm with Army units.
Your M-14 should have a Brown heat shield instead of the black that typically come with most of the airsoft replicas. (I have some brown ones by the way) Early, early war M-14s had vented hand guards and you occassionally see them in photos. I always thought they looked cool. I had one on my issue M-14 in ROTC way back in the day.
|
|
|
Post by tektitik on Dec 22, 2007 12:02:11 GMT -5
...and don't forget early Vietnam era means you can still use: Thompsons, Grease Guns, Garands or look into an M2 Carbine! www.sportsmansguide.com usually gets some nice vietnam stuff as well !
|
|
|
Post by 101steasykid on Dec 22, 2007 13:08:11 GMT -5
Brief US Marine Write-up: 1965-1973
Helmets:
M1 Helmet- Used by all Marines in Vietnam. Jungle Boonie- Issued to Recon Marines in early war, but then to Grunts in Mid to Late war. They came in Various patterns; Duckhunter, ERDL, OD, Tiger Stripe, etc. Helmet Covers- Marines used Duck Hunter and OD Pattern helmets in Early War. Around 1966 they began using Mitchell Pattern Covers until the end of the war. Army units began using ERDL covers in the 70's, but marines remanded using Mitchell Covers.
Uniforms:
OG-107- Originally an Army Fatigue, Marines used them in the field from 1965 to the end of the war in some cases. They had EGA stapped one some of them. M52- Marines had a simular uniform to the OG-107. Only US Marines were issued this Item. Jungle Fatigues- Marines were issued three patterns of Jungle Fatigues. The 1st Pattern was used around 1965-66, as when the 2nd pattern was fazed in. 3rd Pattern Uniforms were used from 1968 to 1973. ERDL's were used with Recon Marines in 1968, and became amongst the Grunts in 1969 or the 1970's. Again, 3rd Patterns were still being used.
Jungle Boots:
USMC Boondockers- This boot was not the same as the WWII Boondocker. It was more simular to a Cocoran Boot. It has all black and leather. These were used in Early war (1965-66). Vibram Sole- Vibram sole Jungle Boots came in three patterns. These were most common as they were used from 1966-1973. Panama Sole- These were produced in '68 and were used rarely in the 70's, but for the most part are considered Post War Boots.
Fieldgear:
M61 M14 Ammo pouches- Marines used the M61 Ammo pouch all throughout the war. It was designed to carry a sign M14 magazine, but they were used to hold M16 magazines as well. Four pouches was the standard, but they would take as many as they could get. M43 Canteen Covers- Same as the ones used in WWII, they were an OD shade. Favored by the Marines for having their m1910 Hangers, they were either placed on the belts or hung on M1955 Flak Vests. M1910 or M1956- M1910 Metal Canteens were used in Early War, but still seen mixed in up to the 70's. Plastic canteens came out around 66' and the Marines got them a little after the Army. Jungle First Aid Kit- The Jungle aid kit was the same used in WWII and Korea. The only difference between the WWII and Vietnam ones were the markings. One had a Medical symbol, the other is marked US. The held much more than the US Army Aid Kit. M61 Pistol belt with Snaps- The M61 Pistol belt was very simular the the M1936 pistol belt. Instead of having one snap for a m1911 or carbine pouch, it had several to snap the M14 Pouches in place. Most marines didn't use the snaps, as you could fit more fieldgear on the belt. Pair of USMC Suspenders w/ pads- These Suspenders were the same used and issued in WWII. The later Vietnam ones were and Olive Drab, but WWII ones came up every so often. M41 Haversack- These were again, used in WWII. You could find the Khaki shade, or Olive Drab shade ones in Vietnam. The lower pack was hardly used with Marines in the Field. Very limited if so. M43 Etool and cover- The M43 E-tool and Cover were used in WWII and Korea as well. The WWII snap styles and M56 Snap botton syle ones were both used. Three Pocket Grenade Pouch- Marines commonly used the Three Pocket grenade pouch, which was hung off of an M14 pouch using M1910 Hangers, and straped to the side of the leg. Two pocket ones used in WWII also were used, but rarely. M56 Fieldgear- Traded with Army and ARVN Troops. Most Marines were not issued it. Bandoliers- Marines loved and began using bandoliers during the Tet offensive. Most of them dropped their fieldgear, carrying a canteen attached using the m1910 hangers on their flak vest, as well as an aid kit, and two or more bandoliers full of magazines. M7 Bayonet w/ M8A1 Scabbard. M7 bayonet's were the replacement bayonets for the M6's, which were used on the M14. M7's were used for the M16 series. The M8A1 was the replacement for the M8 Scabbard, which did not have a metal tip.
Flak Vests:
M1955- Standard USMC Flak Vest M1952- Korean War/Early Vietnam- Traded/Stolen amongst Army and ARVN Troops. Also used as a replacement flak vest for damaged M1955's. M1969- Issued to later war Marines (1969-1973) or traded/stolen from other Army/ARVN troops.
Weapons:
US M14 Rifle- The M14 was used by the USMC from 65-67, and rarely in 1968. The XM16E1 Replaced most of them in 67. Marine recons still used them until the 1970's. The Army converted them into M21's towards the end of the war. The USMC did not. US M16 Rifle- While the Army began using the M16A1 in 1966, there were plenty of Marines still using the E1 up to the end of the war. XM-177/Car-15's- Marine Grunts were never issued this rifle. Some cases of Recon Marine Units using them, but mainly an army weapon. M60- The M60 was a support weapon. Just like in the Army, everyman carried ammo for the Machine Gunner. M79- Main Grenade Weapon for the USMC. M203's were tested with the Army in Vietnam, but Marines really never saw them. M1 Bazooka- Used with the Marines in Vietnam while the Army replaced it with the LAW. LAW- Replacement for the Bazooka, Anti-tank Weapon which could be used by one man, and carried on a rucksack/field pack. M1911- NCO's, Grenadiers, CO's, M60 Assisant Gunners, used the M1911 as a side protection weapon. Standard Grunts were not issued the M1911, they usually carried a K-Bar Knife. Also, Later war Corpsmen were issued them to protect patients. M40 Rifle- Along with Remington, Marines used high power hunting rifles as sniper rifles. They used these in two man teams, a shooter and spoter.
Other Non-Issued Weapons:
M3 Grease Gun- Rarely Issued to Grunts M1 and M2 Carbine- Captured NVA or VC Weapon M1 Garand- ARVN issue M1918A2 BAR- ARVN issue M1A1 Thompson- Rarely used by Marine Recons in Early War
Grenades:
Smoke Grenades- Smoke grenades were issued mainly to RTO's and Squad Leaders to mark targets, such as bunker locations, and LZ's. Frag Grenades- "Pineapple, Lemmon, and Baseball" Grenades were nicknames for grenades used by the Marines in Vietnam due to their shape. The M26, or "Lemmon" Grenade was the most commonly used.
RTO:
PRC-8, 9, & 10- The PRC-8, PRC-9, and PRC-10 were used during the Korean War, and the first two years of Vietnam. They were later replaced by the PRC-25. PRC-25- In 1968, most Marine RTO's began using the PRC-25 radio. It was more compact, and had a longer frequency than the PRC-10. PRC-77- The PRC-77 was in the field around 1968, but most marines were still using the PRC-25. They began showing up for the Marines in the 70's, but still the PRC-25 was used.
Again, this is a breif write up for USMC Grunts, not Recon or Scout Snipers. I left out a few small things, so if you have questions about the, please PM myself.
-Michael
|
|
Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
|
Post by Adler69 on Dec 22, 2007 13:59:43 GMT -5
As far as Panama sole jungle boots goes, they where produced from 1968 on , but they didn't see much use in South East Asia , there was a huge enough supply of Vibram soles to go around. Here's my USMC webgear , it's not a regular Grunt set up , it's for my Scout Sniper impression around the time of the Tet offensive in '68 , so it doesn't have shoulder pads or grenade pouchesand the canteen covers are M56, but the canteens are 1910s.
|
|
Cpl. Hicks
Sergeant
Unofficial Flaggrantly Wrong Weapons Policeman
Posts: 1,425
|
Post by Cpl. Hicks on Dec 22, 2007 14:26:27 GMT -5
Also, Moore Militaria just began offering their new reproduction vibram-sole jungle boots, which from what I hear are fabulous. About $70 a pair.
|
|
TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
|
Post by TommyGunner on Dec 24, 2007 14:29:16 GMT -5
Im hopeing to get some money for Christmas, if I get enough Im gonna see exactly what my gear suplier has for me and if Im lucky I can buy everything I need in one fell swoop.
I was also lookign thorugh my gear and I found a Nam helmet cover so the helmet is squared away.
TommyGunner
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 24, 2007 17:43:52 GMT -5
One subtle difference on the M-14 from what you typically see on the replicas. Most early war M-14s and clearly from pictures about 2/3rds of the Marine Corp M-14s had brown heat sheilds (not the black ) Some were even vented although this was discontinued pretty early on.
Because I have a bazillion take off heat shields for my Garand conversions I went ahead and painted some up in the appropriate brown and even vented a few of them. They give the M-14s a nice look I think. I'll take some pictures and post them in the for sale section. $12.00 for the brown handguards and $24.00 for the vented ones.
|
|
Cpl. Hicks
Sergeant
Unofficial Flaggrantly Wrong Weapons Policeman
Posts: 1,425
|
Post by Cpl. Hicks on Dec 24, 2007 20:14:07 GMT -5
What type of paint did you use? [/hijack]
|
|
click
Sergeant
Company G, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division
Posts: 1,764
|
Post by click on Dec 25, 2007 10:08:38 GMT -5
Ahh, early war US Marines.... Another impression that I would love to do! So many impressions, so little cash....
Click
|
|