rkrueger
Private
G Co 505th Cannonballers 3rd Bat 1st platoon
Posts: 344
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Post by rkrueger on Jul 6, 2007 23:45:36 GMT -5
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Post by Rock of the Marne on Jul 6, 2007 23:53:33 GMT -5
dude that would be awesome. get somethin to hold it down though. like use a block of wood
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rkrueger
Private
G Co 505th Cannonballers 3rd Bat 1st platoon
Posts: 344
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Post by rkrueger on Jul 7, 2007 0:07:29 GMT -5
it seemed so simple to make.. and it would be great i think for what we do...
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Post by Tough Ombre on Jul 7, 2007 22:11:40 GMT -5
It can be done. Pretty easily.... and there are some good madbull shells you can use for it. -Cary
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Post by odinfish on Jul 8, 2007 8:40:44 GMT -5
I agree...this seems like a really great idea. But can someone provide me with some info on those shells used, such as how they function and weight? If someone gets hit in the head with one of those things it looks like a concussion waiting to happen.
Mike
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rkrueger
Private
G Co 505th Cannonballers 3rd Bat 1st platoon
Posts: 344
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Post by rkrueger on Jul 8, 2007 8:57:43 GMT -5
Yea i know,,, i am looking into them, i want to build one, but if its not safe for that reason, it would be pointless to make it
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jaeger
Private 1st Class
Posts: 478
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Post by jaeger on Jul 8, 2007 9:40:14 GMT -5
So does the shell actually leave the mortar or just the bb's?
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rkrueger
Private
G Co 505th Cannonballers 3rd Bat 1st platoon
Posts: 344
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Post by rkrueger on Jul 8, 2007 10:32:49 GMT -5
From the way the clip shows i would say the hole thing
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Post by charleyfoxtrot on Jul 8, 2007 10:49:14 GMT -5
I have a bazooka that works with m203/ mad bull grenade shells. Basically its a giant shotgun shell. You drop it down the tube and it shoots a shower of bbs. I have also seen a set up wheere the shell was secured in one end of a short (7") PVC pipe and filled with gas, but no bbs. The other end had a small nerf vortex rocket stuffed in it. You dropped the whole PVC round itno the mortar and it shoot the rocket. My bazooka shoots one of those foam rockets about thirty yards.
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Jul 8, 2007 11:07:02 GMT -5
We shoot nerf pocket vortex out of M79's and 203's. It's freaking cool. I can see how the concept could be applied to a mortar. Seems pretty simple really. You just load a shell with gas, and stick the nerf vortex in the other end. Don't use the MadBull paintball grenades though, they destroy the nerf.
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neidy
Private
29th Lets Go!
Posts: 117
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Post by neidy on Jul 8, 2007 11:55:49 GMT -5
only the BB's leave the mortar. The whole thing just drops in and then stays there. The way 203 shells work are basically as such: You fill the 203 shell with gas, put the BB's into the slots, and push a button on the back of the 203 shell. When you push that button it releases the gas which launches the BB's and the shell stays put.
A lot of guys that do CQB stuff carry around a few shells, and when they come to a room where there's people in it they pull out the 203 shell, reach around the corner and press the button, launching 40-200 BB's into the room. 203 shells are basically single shot shotguns.
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Post by odinfish on Jul 8, 2007 12:47:50 GMT -5
So it's basically a rain of BBs then? If so, that doesn't sound too appealing either. I do like the nerf concept tho' for use with the mortar...
Mike
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neidy
Private
29th Lets Go!
Posts: 117
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Post by neidy on Jul 8, 2007 15:53:10 GMT -5
yeah it's only a bunch of BB's raining down on people, and even then the BB's will probably hit them and they wont feel it because they BBs are falling so slowly/
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jaeger
Private 1st Class
Posts: 478
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Post by jaeger on Jul 8, 2007 16:19:35 GMT -5
This seems like a great idea!
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Post by odinfish on Jul 9, 2007 18:47:45 GMT -5
I know this might be getting a bit off-topic now, but how could we make this concept much more fun instead of raining BBs? Most of you guys have loads of Airsoft experience than I and know more of what's available not only commercially but of the inventive MacGyver nature as well.
My first thought is of flash-bangs...how safe are these and could they be implemented with a home-made mortar?
Second, smokers, or small smoke grenades: could we implement and use these safely as well?
Lastly, the idea of an ejecting shell via CO2 is a great effect imo...what can be done to generate such a shell safely. For instance, say a small can landing on someone's head wouldn't be a bad thing since helmets are worn, right?
Any ideas?
Mike
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Post by spitfire740 on Jul 9, 2007 21:45:00 GMT -5
not necessarily, there are Germans that wear caps, along with allies that could be wearing just a jeep cap or somthing. I would'nt suggest launching any projectile unless it is a foam nerf rocket or somthing similar. The raining BB's work well though. There was an idea of loading BB's, or even popcorn kernals in a tight bag, and when the bag reaches the tree line the branches break open the bag raining BB's down. But that only works in a forested type scenario, and it hasn't been tested.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 9, 2007 23:22:02 GMT -5
The Nerf vortex footballs are excellent. They used to have Howlers which made an excellent whistling sound as they dropped increasing the liklihood folks will notice. Unfortunatle Hasbro discontinued them a couple years ago but you still can find some from time to time. Since the shells are slow loading up with gas you need to have about 3 to five premade and pre loaded to be effective and that gets a bit spendy. Figure you'll be lucky to recover 1/3rd of your Nerf Howlers. They tend to run about 3.00 a piece. The madbull grenades that will power your Nerfs are roughly $40.00 each and greengas gets expensive to charge them up so a propane adapter is worthwhile. You need a small attached string that stay in a channel inside the tube so once you drop in your shell) the Nerf flys out but your charge is still in the tube. With the channeled string you can pull it out and be ready to hang and drop your next round. Be extremely careful just as with a real mortar not to be near the muzzle when firing as the Nerf will seriously injure anyone at the muzzle. A dropping Nerf down range is of course fine. They fire a good 50 to 75 meters and fly very high in the air. With CO2 ball valve powered systems they go well over 100 yards and fly so high in the air you lose sight of them.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jul 10, 2007 1:01:12 GMT -5
Tennis ball launcher mortars. We used one quite succesfully at a DDay landing. Hard to get people to notice sometimes but we did get some kills and it was a great effect because everytime they heard the thump(and yes there is a very audiable thump like a real mortar) Someone would yell incoming and everyone would pause and hunker down waiting for it to land. We powered it with both a bicycle tire pump taking maybe a minute to charge it with 2 people working it. We also posered it with a small air tank like you find at Home Depot. Oiling the TB's before firing gave them much greater range as it sort of helped create a seal around the ball in the tube. They fired a football field or 2 or better in range. The loading is quite non realistic but gets the job done.
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biged
Master sergeant
Posts: 468
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Post by biged on Jul 10, 2007 4:30:10 GMT -5
I made my mortar with the intention of using it for re-enactments. However the shooting tennis balls and smoke grenades is a helluvalot more fun!! I did discover something in regards to air-seal. I have 2.625 (2-5/8ths) barrel thats 18 inches long. Tennis balls roll rite in. I made a 2.5 barrel (also 18 inches long) in which the tennis balls have to pushed in with a ram-rod. Both barrels will launch a ball the same distance. This puzzled me... I increased the length of the 2.625 barrel by 6 inches which now launches tennis balls 25+ further. Later I found this link which can calculate barrel length. www.bavetta.com/aircannon.htmlAfter I entered the specs for my mortar I was surprised to see the optimum effective range would be achieved if the barrel was 93 inches in length ?! They say to divide the final number by 2 which is 46.5. Still a bit long for a mortar. Allamericandan - This rig regulates CO2/HPA to 0-150 psi. You can use it to run air tools, nail guns, or your air cannon. www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=166441-61735-J-6901-100///ed///
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Jul 10, 2007 7:00:08 GMT -5
I have a lot of experience making Compressed air fired cannons and mortars (indirect fire only), we use sabots that hold water balloons. While it doesn’t sound very appealing the water balloon explodes on impact. If you get hit directly you get wet. It is also a lot easier to tell if the balloon lands near you as it makes a noise when the balloon burst. All in all it is very cool.
This August at the East Coast event we will have an air cannon there along with at least one mortar. I’ll make sure to get a video clip of them firing and have it posted.
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Post by odinfish on Jul 10, 2007 9:15:29 GMT -5
Some good ideas mentioned here. For the shell, I'm particularly interested in the water balloon encased in the sabot due to the effects it produces. What is the sabot made out of? And while at the East Coast event, can someone take footage of this air cannon and mortar? In a reenacting thread somewhere, I remember someone mentioning that they created some shells with talcum powder leaving a nice area effect but also an odor of a less-than-warlike atmosphere I have a few ideas for a shell now using black powder but the casing and the overall issue of safety needs to be worked out. Pretty to similar to smokers this guy has made: www.wwiia.com/grenadecharge.htmlI have had great success in making these encased in the potato masher guide on another page there with well over a hundred trials in the dryest brush and kindling possible surrounding it...no fires or burns. But a clunk in the head from one of these, well, some rules should be standardized for lobbing only. ;D Mike
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Jul 10, 2007 9:28:51 GMT -5
The shell is made out of a paper sabot. We use a breach load for out cannon. You put the water balloon in the paper sabot and place it up in the breach. Then close and fire. The paper sabot falls about 50ft away from the cannon while the water balloon flies as far as 500ft. If you are smart about it you can adjust how far the shot goes by the amount of pressure you use. Once you fire three rounds at each pressure you can really gauge where your shots will land. The pictures bellow are old pictures of our prototype. However, you can get an idea of how it works.
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biged
Master sergeant
Posts: 468
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Post by biged on Jul 11, 2007 4:24:46 GMT -5
I had tried the water balloon idea but only had 1 out of 5 make it out of the barrel without breaking. I'll have to try the your paper sabot idea.
///ed///
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Jul 11, 2007 6:36:45 GMT -5
I had tried the water balloon idea but only had 1 out of 5 make it out of the barrel without breaking. I'll have to try the your paper sabot idea. ///ed/// Yeah, without the paper sabot the water balloon's do not make it without breaking. Even if you lube them with grease or silicon oil. We have tried. The paper sabots work the best.
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Post by neoptolemus on Jul 13, 2007 16:00:14 GMT -5
My friend and I are reproducing a Granatwerfer 34 (standard German 8cm mortar) and would like to hear some suggestions for projectiles using standard 40mm airsoft grenades. I am not interested in pyrotechnics simply because they are not usable on most fields, and so would be a pointless means of propulsion. Any advice is greatly helpful, and it sounds like some people have already tried this -types of projectiles (.12's, .20's, .25's, .30's, rubber balls, tennis balls, nerf rockets [what size?], etc...) -types of shells (Mad Bulls, King Arms, Classic Army, 18 rndr, 96 rndr, paintball shell, rocket shell, etc...) -range of projectiles (bb's, tennis balls, foam rockets, rubber projectiles, etc...) -tips on construction (how to make the bipod clamp, where to find the parts for the ball and socket of the bottom of the barrel and base plate, etc...) The concept is very simple, a peg at the bottom of the firing tube strikes the trigger on the bottom of the grenade releasing compressed gas (be it green gas or propane) which forces the BB's out of each of the independent "barrels" on the grenade. I have tested 18rnd and 96rnd Mad Bull shells with varying loads of BB's only to have mixed success; the BB's from a full 96 rnd shell seem to get nice distance (maybe 200ft if wind contributes) and each barrel gets good spread.
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biged
Master sergeant
Posts: 468
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Post by biged on Jul 14, 2007 5:58:10 GMT -5
Use Redgas or CO2 in your madbulls. It will almost double your range. Also learn how to rebuild your grenades - they will eventually leak or not reset. The heavier the bb, the greater the range. Heavier weight bb's are more expensive. Nerf rockets are elusive. You find them one time, but then they won't appear again for months. After you have your tube ID buy 2-3 different types see which one works best. Later go back and buy out all the rest. I settled on tennis balls because they <.25 in some stores. To shoot tennis balls you will basicly have to make a potato gun. Volume, pressure, and barrel length determine the range. You can learn all about air cannons here: www.spudfiles.com/forums/index.php?If you do build one, never use it as a direct fire weapon. A heavy weight projectile can kill someone. I copied my M2 mortar from pictures. You'll more less have to befriend a welder/fabricator if you want it made out of steel. Aside from the 1-7/8ths trailer ball I had to cut & design everything from scratch. Mortars look like a simple thing to build. But, they are really difficult build if you want it operate like one. ww2aa.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1178705131///ed///
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Post by odinfish on Jul 14, 2007 7:47:30 GMT -5
I had tried the water balloon idea but only had 1 out of 5 make it out of the barrel without breaking. I'll have to try the your paper sabot idea. ///ed/// Yeah, without the paper sabot the water balloon's do not make it without breaking. Even if you lube them with grease or silicon oil. We have tried. The paper sabots work the best. What about a toilet paper roll sabot...or does it need to be more flimsy for the reason you use paper in the first place? Biged -- for your tennis ball projectiles, would you consider cutting slits in the ball and filling it with some sort of powder to create an area effect? Mike
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biged
Master sergeant
Posts: 468
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Post by biged on Jul 15, 2007 5:55:29 GMT -5
Negative... Powder would increase the weight. The weight would add additional striking force IF it landed on someone's head.
If you are looking at creating effects you may want to look into "Juice Bottle" rounds on the reenactor forums. They are a form of pyrotechnic used for ground and airburst effects at reenactments. These rounds are NOT airsoft related.
Since I have a muzzle loading mortar. I simply load dried peas, beans or bb's into a spray-paint cap lid and drop it down the tube. If I want more range I load the tube with MORE ammo (pour more down the tube), or decrease the diameter of the barrel by swapping barrels.
///ed///
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Post by odinfish on Jul 15, 2007 11:23:17 GMT -5
Negative... Powder would increase the weight. The weight would add additional striking force IF it landed on someone's head. If you are looking at creating effects you may want to look into "Juice Bottle" rounds on the reenactor forums. They are a form of pyrotechnic used for ground and airburst effects at reenactments. These rounds are NOT airsoft related. Since I have a muzzle loading mortar. I simply load dried peas, beans or bb's into a spray-paint cap lid and drop it down the tube. If I want more range I load the tube with MORE ammo (pour more down the tube), or decrease the diameter of the barrel by swapping barrels. ///ed/// Well only a little talcum powder is needed to create a decent sized area effect imo, which should slightly increase the weight since the powder is very light. 2 to 3 tablespoons should do it and would hardly add to risk of injury. As far as juice bottle rounds -- I've never heard of those and have found no info on them concerning construction or otherwise while doing a search. Mike
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Jul 20, 2007 7:11:31 GMT -5
Guys! I'm telling you water balloon rounds make a nice area effect and are very easy to make. Use paper sabots!
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