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Post by katipunero on Apr 22, 2008 5:09:23 GMT -5
Saw this at Arnies.... just thought you like to see it? Some of the new product updates of the new form of Richard's rifle stock.
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click
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Post by click on Apr 22, 2008 6:20:59 GMT -5
Looks a little funny to me. I think that it is the lower stock and "pistol grip" area. Cnat put my finger on it but they look a little strange. Plus the entire gas cylinder assembly is too short.
Click
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Post by 5thrangerinfantry on Apr 22, 2008 6:46:39 GMT -5
Are you sure that is and airsoft gun? It looks like it has a BFA....
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Seff
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Post by Seff on Apr 22, 2008 8:44:40 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 22, 2008 11:41:51 GMT -5
It would appear Richard has adapted my dimensions recommended changes which is great. I provided him with all correct dimensions and advised him how best to adapt his previous design. (I wasn't sure he was going to do it but clearly he has.) He has eliminated the 3 inches of excess length in the lower stock. Has thickened the lower stock and shaped it more correctly to mimic the Garand and cleaned it up considerably. The front gas reservoir assembly is simple to fix. Just use an actual assembly. With a proper stain and finish this should actually look very, very good. You'll note it's the first time he has shown pictures of his gun from a direct side view. The initial one he did was horrid and the second one though greatly enhanced still quite wrong. This one looks quite good IMO.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Apr 22, 2008 11:57:54 GMT -5
Are you still going to make your version John.
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YankeeDiv26
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Post by YankeeDiv26 on Apr 22, 2008 14:43:46 GMT -5
Looks like he made a few improvements but I think it would take him until version 4 or 5 to have me sold. In addition to some of the criticisms/advice given earlier, he still has the m14 style forward sling mount on it. It's attatched directly to the stock, not a ferule, a pet peeve of mine.
<YD>
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 22, 2008 15:11:35 GMT -5
There are several other slight infidelities but again he's come a long way. I intend to build and sell my greatly enhanced version and while marginally better visually then his will be offered as finished assembled guns and while still not perfect should satisfy people wanting as high a quality and exacting an AEG Garand as is available. It will be more expensive than my current offering but not dramatically.
The AZM offering will create a viable inexpensive approach for do it yourselfers and adds greatly to the availbility of viable WW2 US weaponry. I'm quite pleased that he has made the apparent revisions. I am sure it will bleed potential sales from my market but that's fine. I am going to focus on exacting, high quality finished guns and was more than happy to assit him in improving the authenticity of his design. The pictures reflect a pretty darn nice looking effort (finally).
With the flush mounted affordable and reliable clips now available and this enhanced variant I expect we'll see lots of Garands on the WW2 airsoft fields and that has always been my ultimate goal. It should have a positive effect on recruiting efforts and growth in participation as well as a more representative mix of reasonably correct weapons in attendance.
With the affordable Kar 98 and MP40s the playing field should look considerably better than it did just a year ago!
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KRaddatz
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Post by KRaddatz on Apr 22, 2008 16:07:17 GMT -5
Are you sure that is and airsoft gun? It looks like it has a BFA.... if you look theres a mag latch from the M14 conversion
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 22, 2008 16:30:46 GMT -5
It would look considerably better if he made the stock like and an M1 Garand one instead of M14 style and if he removed the selector switch.
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click
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Post by click on Apr 22, 2008 16:50:44 GMT -5
It would look considerably better if he made the stock like and an M1 Garand one instead of M14 style and if he removed the selector switch. Yeah...sure. 2nd Bats 1st pattern M1s have the m14 stocks and selector switches. Whys dont you say anything about that? Click
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click
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Post by click on Apr 22, 2008 16:56:57 GMT -5
One thing I will add is that it looks like the bolt sits a little far up the stock. Like it is a little far in. Maybe a dremel will fix it. I think that is what makes it look wrong to me. The other stuff I can over look (with a new gas assembly)
Click
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 22, 2008 17:50:53 GMT -5
To click: If he goes through the trouble of making a wood stock he mines well make it an M1 Garand one.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Apr 22, 2008 18:03:02 GMT -5
Lets see: This isn't AZR's "first pattern" He has had atleast 2-3 version upgrades now. This is the best version I have seen yet. But still flawed for no apperant reason.
John was working with what he had an M14. AZR is making a whole new stock and metal parts kit here. The Tanker model he did first and his second attempt at a full scale M1 were understandable. John provided lots of info for him to get it right this next time. For some reason he didn't
I find your remark an unneccessary dig on someone I call a friend and someone that was a pioneer as it were at converting the M14 to make a stand in M1 that would actually work in a skirmish. I don't think he deserves an off handed remark like that.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 22, 2008 19:34:56 GMT -5
It's fine. I appreciate your going to bat for me CharleyNovember but I admit freely that my initial offering was flawed in many many ways and there is no question it presented numerous infidelities beyond what some folks could tolerate. (Completely their perogative) My current iteration remedies most (but not all of them) but sadly at almost $800.00 will be beyond what most people can afford. The original version was intended to be an affordable facimile to a Garand when no other viable option was available. I think it accomplished that. It unfortunately was fairly expensive in the current airsoft scheme of things.
The AZR effort is a commendable endeavor and I wish him well. I do get a kick out of all the people getting their digs in and my initial response is not unlike hearing the folks rip apart someones impression without ever posting their own. Hmmmm.
A couple of things to note: If you're using the M14 as a base your receiver group is going to be 1/8th of an inch off in length. (I can live with that) The mag release can be shaved down (although call me crazy but since a 12 round clip is a challenge most airsofters don't face, I for one like the functionality) The selector switch is easily eliminated (although care must be taken to insure you don't screw up the mechanism or ruin the gun.) I use the actual gas assembly and have added the small barrel extention missing in my first effort. The forward sling hardware is easily replaced with an iteration of the actual Garand ferrule but requires great effort if you want the bolt action to remain functional (I like it even though it has no real purpose)
This new AZR kit is certainly worth considering and is a tremendous refinement from his initial effort. It will allow many players to acquire and assemble a reasonably close Garand AEG at an affordable price and that has to be a good thing. I still get an amazing number of orders for my existing version (now priced at $480.00 complete with three shortened clips) and expect to sell a handful of my newest version (Hopefully enough to recover my tooling and set up expenses)
I'll debut my latest iteration (version two) at Jump to Destiny and will post lots of pictures at what I think will be the best Garand AEG available. Admittedly that's like saying "He was kind of young for a Pope."
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click
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Post by click on Apr 23, 2008 1:56:20 GMT -5
Lets see: This isn't AZR's "first pattern" He has had atleast 2-3 version upgrades now. This is the best version I have seen yet. But still flawed for no apperant reason. John was working with what he had an M14. AZR is making a whole new stock and metal parts kit here. The Tanker model he did first and his second attempt at a full scale M1 were understandable. John provided lots of info for him to get it right this next time. For some reason he didn't I find your remark an unneccessary dig on someone I call a friend and someone that was a pioneer as it were at converting the M14 to make a stand in M1 that would actually work in a skirmish. I don't think he deserves an off handed remark like that. Well, I am just pointing out that he criticizes the ARZ Garand for having the same flaws as 2nd Bat's. It seemed awfully sly to comment on such a thing that was a minor mistake especially when he couldn't/wouldn't point it out on 2nd Bats who wil read his comments. I am not criticizing 2nd Bat in the least. In fact, he has given me inspiration to try to convert an an M14 myself. It was actually a compliment to his work and the fact that those virtually are the only visual detractions on his Garands. I see no reason why it was an unnecessary post. Click
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 23, 2008 15:56:22 GMT -5
Click it wasn't for that reason that I have never posted about the error 2nd Bats garand. I posted it here ,because correct me if I am wrong, This guy makes custom stocks for his M14 Conversions. If he goes through the trouble of making custom stocks he might as well make them look right. Do you get my point? -sgttom
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YankeeDiv26
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Post by YankeeDiv26 on Apr 23, 2008 17:25:00 GMT -5
Eh, I don't think of it as a "sly" comment. I know one of the first things I did when I got my garand from john (2nd bat) was modify it to accept a regular garand ferule and followed it up by a "how to" PM to john the day after. If I had the means to do the same type of thing to AZR's owner, I would.
John wants to see M1's on the field first and cash in his wallet later. He's said that since day one, there's no way around it.
But lets get back on topic to the AZR conversions, not John's. Carrying on...
<YD>
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Post by jimseery on Apr 23, 2008 19:28:51 GMT -5
This has been an interesting little exchange, but you have to consider, pay attention now, that John is John because he has worked very hard at being John and most of the rest of us haven't.
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click
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Post by click on Apr 24, 2008 1:25:01 GMT -5
Do you get my point? -sgttom Gotcha
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Post by supernube on May 29, 2008 8:57:31 GMT -5
I emailed AZR and they sell a 20' barrel version and a 24' as well. I'm guessing that the 20' is the tanker version. Someone please verify.
He also hinted that he would consider a Springfield 1903/VSR conversion if there was enough actual demand. We may need to start a email campaign to get him to make the conversion.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 29, 2008 22:06:54 GMT -5
At Jump to Destiny there were two AZR Garands present. They had recently recieved them an they were the newest edition with the more Garand like shape. According to the owner both arrived with large cracks in the stock which had to be glued and you could see the flaws in the neck of the handle. The wait time was quite long which is understandable as it's a small company and probably pretty busy.
The forward handguard is about 1 1/2 inch too short and the gas reservoir assembly is likewise an inch too short. As you can see in the picture just not shaped quite right. The front sight is half again too big and the muzzle lock is wrong. In spite of these infidelities the result provides a very decent first impression and from a distance looks pretty good. Way, way better than seeing nothing but Thompsons or burlap wrapped AKs. It is by no means a top notch replica but everybit as nice as the typical M14 conversions (including my version 1's.) With an actual Garand front Gas reservoir assembly in my opinion it would look very good
It is a huge improvement from his embarrassingly bad initial effort. The broken stocks were disconcerting to hear about and hopefully just a fluke. I think it would be awesome if he did a stock for a Springfield conversion and would be willing to provide him all the dimensions and shape requirements to do one up.
I'll try to get a side by side comparison between my original version and AZRs latest version.
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Post by youonlywish on Jun 2, 2008 13:24:23 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for mine to arrive, it's been nearly 3 months.
UPS lost my package... a LONG story which may soon get a review... pending.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 26, 2008 17:40:12 GMT -5
Hopefully it will arrive soon and be real nice. Good luck.
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Post by supernube on Jun 26, 2008 19:44:52 GMT -5
I've got one on the way too. From the pictures they have sent it looks to be pretty accurate. It just seems to be missing the two forward sling attachment loops. I wouldn't think that it would be to hard to attach some aftermarket ones though.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 2, 2008 11:25:59 GMT -5
Those are the stacking swivels and normally they would be built into the gas reservoir assembly. The small stacking swivels are occassionally hard to come by in and of themselves and are often rediculously expensive ($11.00!) Fabricating a reasonably similar facsimile shouldn't be too hard and mounting it onto the hokey aluminum assembly on the front of the AZR rifle would certainly be doable. It's doubtful the mount would be strong enough to function as a stacking swivel however but's not a real big deal.
Please post pictures of your AZR rifle when it arrives and is fully assembled.
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Post by supernube on Jul 22, 2008 20:17:27 GMT -5
OK, got it in yesterday. Will post pics soon. Initial comments are: Paint on metal parts is horrible, glossy black with lot's of bare spots, peeling. But that's ok, I repainted with a mix of metalic silver and flat black enamel. It makes a nice color similar to the nicer real garands I have seen. I had to dremel out a portion on the rear handguard as it wouldn't fit my CYMA M14. Again, not a big deal, but they could have gotten that part right. I'm still working on making the stack swivel, again they could have put one on a lot easier than me. Made it, Jb Welded on. s333.photobucket.com/albums/m391/supernube/?action=view¤t=IMG_2453.jpgi333.photobucket.com/albums/m391/supernube/IMG_2454-1.jpgi333.photobucket.com/albums/m391/supernube/IMG_2455-1.jpgi333.photobucket.com/albums/m391/supernube/IMG_2456-1.jpgThe stock is actually very nice. It actually feels pretty solid and there are no visible cracks . Nice looking wood too. I did spread some epoxy around the inside of the handgrip, because that is where the Spanish group's stocks cracked. But, knock on wood, mine feels pretty solid. I still doubt that I will be picking the gun up by the sling. The gas assembly/barrel extension isn't perfect, but it does look very good from a few feet away. Especially with the new paint job.
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