|
Post by lrich on Dec 4, 2008 23:06:23 GMT -5
Hey, i have been cruising these forums a while, but this is my first topic . I have been using what i think is a repro/fake (only tag is "100% Cotton, Made in India") maybe musette bag that i got for free with purchase of some other stuff as a dump pouch for my magazines, but my problem is that it is a little large and can lose the mags somewhate easily if i am running and jumping. So i was wondering what did the U.S. (preferably paratroopers, but any would be fine) use as dump pouches? Also, as i am on a budget, cheaper repros are preferred over expensive originals Also, i don't quite know actually what the bag is, so info would be helpful (i don't even know what to google):
|
|
Retrohead
Private
Previously 29thletsgo
Posts: 194
|
Post by Retrohead on Dec 4, 2008 23:39:17 GMT -5
Looks like one of the modern Rothco (or "Rothcrap" to others) bags, which were really designed more as a fashionable bag, kinda like how everyone weres "army" jackets with hoodies, or how John Lennon in the seventies wore OG-107's while on tour. it just looks cool, there really was no such bag as it in WW2.(note the OD7, US 50 star flag sewn to the front, Corpral chevrons also on the front [wtflol], and that stretchy nylon watchamakallit black webbing on the inside) as far as dump pouches, i believe most people would just replace the new mag with the spent mag in place of it (someone correct me, but in real life im pretty sure it was drop the spent mag and reload before your arse got shot off). Although M1 ammo bags make for a great dump pouch: www.battlesim.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=149&zenid=12d507e10d499d289d88070e178564d2Its a nice affordable chinese repro, but it would be better in the long run to find a real one (you can find them on ebay or military shows for the same price to)
|
|
|
Post by lrich on Dec 5, 2008 0:10:00 GMT -5
Ok, thanks, that makes sense, and i kind of figured that this wasn't real (the tag is way to modern), but i was also interested in if it was a repro with just some convient patches sewn on, or if it was nothing. I'll try to find a real one, i was more directing it at any dump pouches that would cost $50 or more compared to $20 for a repro. And in real life, i know you are pretty right, although i know is that it is a bitch to replace the mags into the pouches in combat (i tried this first with Thompson 20rd'ers and the pouches) and i am pretty sure that most often they would probably carry them, possibly especially airborne and the like as they were more likely to not have a nice supply van behind them with extra magazines. (Obviously in extreme combat you don't give a damn, but i am saying in combat where you don't have time to replace the mag in the pouch, but have enough time to not just drop it)
|
|
Retrohead
Private
Previously 29thletsgo
Posts: 194
|
Post by Retrohead on Dec 5, 2008 0:40:26 GMT -5
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 5, 2008 0:43:38 GMT -5
For the Garand the enblock clip was fully disposable and once ejected was simply left on the ground. Magazines were recovered and the GP bag was the most expedient drop pouch along with the large cargo pockets the uniforms had. Some guys playing airsoft complain about the way the GP bag with straps flops atround and gets in the way. The same would be true during the "real deal" I find if I route the strap either under the ammo belt or through the suspenders it can be arranged in such a way that it easy to get at and doesn't flop around. I'm convinced that if set it up that way and found it useful so would GIs back in the day.
In defensive positions the magazines, grenades or enblock clips would usually be arranged on a dirt shelf in your fighting position and simply placed out of the way when you grabbed a new one.
|
|
|
Post by hburn21 on Dec 5, 2008 1:14:00 GMT -5
I put used mags down my shirt
|
|
|
Post by lrich on Dec 5, 2008 2:09:28 GMT -5
Alright thanks, 2nd Bat, that makes sense, i'll see if i can't get one of those bags (seems like a good idea) and if all else fails i will use the tactical shirt pouch as suggested by hburn21. And now that i am finally getting all my gear figured out, i'll see about those cargo pockets too. It's interesting how you learn more about WWII gear everyday
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 10, 2008 19:30:53 GMT -5
Another authentic and viable candidate for a WW2 dump pouch would be a gas mask bag. GI's quickly dumped their gas masks as useless weight but often kept the bag as they served as excellent General Purpose bags. The way they were designed to be worn diagonally across the chest and had the opening designed for quick deployment would make them a great, expedient, dump pouch.
|
|
|
Post by ramborob17 on Dec 11, 2008 10:12:36 GMT -5
Most combat vets I have talked to dont even remember having to reload in combat. I guess once the addrenaline starts pumping and the bullets start flying everything just becomes one swift movement. Although for airsoft I too use a GP bag. I carry two bags when using my thompson. One being the little SMG bag and then the GP bag to drop my empty mags into. Heres the link: atthefront.com/mag_bag_main.jpg
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 11, 2008 17:45:46 GMT -5
We who avidly play airsoft know that reloading is an extremely vulnerable time. There is a lull in your firing and your units ability to put fire on the enemy. Your focus as a player is away from the enemy for a brief few seconds and you're moving in a way that calls attention to your position.
With period airsoft (when its done right) reloading is frequent and neccessary. With low cap or real cap magazines your position and the position of your unit are vulnerable. This is realistic and as it should be. A well trained player can reload without having to look at what he is doing. In this way he can keep his eyes downrange and maintain immediate, situational awareness. He communicates with his team mates so they know to time their own reloading and provide cover while the teammate is "down" If possible the player should practice reloading in body positions likely to happen during play. (While in the prone position, when behind a tree, crouched or when moving.) Few players practice and refine such skills. As in real combat a lot of players forget when reloading that they are exposed and become inordinately exposed to enemy fire. They focus on the act of reloading instead of remembering to take cover or duck further down. This reality is a tougfh thing to train people on but it pays off in reducing unneccessary eliminations. For me it's all part of the coolness factor of historical airsoft that isn't typically a part of traditional skirmishing.
I remind people that when crouched they exhibit one third to one fifth of the target mass they expose when standing. When prone it's reduced to 10% and often eliminated altogether. You're not always able to do so of course but if the opportunity is there, doing so must be habitual.
|
|
|
Post by supernube on Dec 12, 2008 9:50:25 GMT -5
I play as a paratrooper, and just use one of my leg pockets. It may not be as efficient as a drop pouch, but it works and keeps me from having to lug around extra bags.
As a relevant side note, in my reading of historical accounts; it looks like a lot of the extra bags and equipment, i.e. gas mask bags, bandoliers, even haversacks, were discarded at the first available opportunity. In one book it even talks about officers and MP's who followed an advance fining soldiers (who they could identify) for dumping items.
|
|
Seff
Private
.30-06 - Turning Cover into Concealment since 1906
Posts: 344
|
Post by Seff on Dec 12, 2008 12:14:17 GMT -5
As a relevant side note, in my reading of historical accounts; it looks like a lot of the extra bags and equipment, i.e. gas mask bags, bandoliers, even haversacks, were discarded at the first available opportunity. In one book it even talks about officers and MP's who followed an advance fining soldiers (who they could identify) for dumping items. Read this: www.90thidpg.us/Equipment/Articles/TravelLight/Page1.html
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 12, 2008 14:17:12 GMT -5
Very well written and a great example of the way field expediency works. I suspect that all of the folks depicted had a pack and assorted pouches to haul the neccessary accoutrements for field existence. Hence they had a pack etc. As indicated those were dropped when manuvering for an assault and it was always hoped they would be brought up to the new position. Pockets have always been a widely utilized pouch and it was great that he clearly illustrates that. Even in his later pictures you still see troops with packs and extra gear over and above what he is arguing. What you have and how much you carry is completely situational. For airsoft the look with the field jacket or wool shirt, ammo belt and canteen and stuffed pockets is probably about right.
There are plenty of photos of guys on the move hauling a kitchen sink of gear. They aren't neccessarily tactical when doing so but when you had to relocate you had to take all that you could with you. If there were trucks that was great but if not you had to manage somehow. E-Tool were often considered the most essential item of gear after your rifle and ammo. They may have been dumped for an assualt but the soldier was never very removed from them for very long. From all my interviews with GIs digging was continuos and a virtually daily enterprise when on the line.
|
|