Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Dec 7, 2008 3:44:05 GMT -5
Don't forget the Armed Forces members lost on Sunday December 7 '41 R.I.P.
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click
Sergeant
Company G, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division
Posts: 1,764
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Post by click on Dec 7, 2008 4:55:46 GMT -5
RIP
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Karl
Private 1st Class
Posts: 405
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Post by Karl on Dec 7, 2008 9:11:01 GMT -5
God Bless and Rest in Peace
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Cpl. Hicks
Sergeant
Unofficial Flaggrantly Wrong Weapons Policeman
Posts: 1,425
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Post by Cpl. Hicks on Dec 7, 2008 11:24:04 GMT -5
God bless 'em.
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elder90
Private 1st Class
Posts: 643
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Post by elder90 on Dec 7, 2008 13:29:36 GMT -5
RIP
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Medic
Sergeant
I'm 12 not 25!
Posts: 1,539
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Post by Medic on Dec 7, 2008 15:13:23 GMT -5
RIP
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azeeze
Private 1st Class
Posts: 622
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Post by azeeze on Dec 7, 2008 15:45:04 GMT -5
Never forget those who were killed on that fateful morning. God Bless all Americans and Allies who lost their lives And those that killed them can rot in hell.
I just replaced a misspelled word. CN
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mccallion
Private 1st Class
Official Road Sign Reader (retired)
Posts: 770
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Post by mccallion on Dec 7, 2008 18:37:47 GMT -5
RIP
mccallion
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Medic
Sergeant
I'm 12 not 25!
Posts: 1,539
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Post by Medic on Dec 7, 2008 18:42:45 GMT -5
And those that killed them can rot in hell. I wouldn't say that. They were doing what they had to do, and we were doing what we had to do, that's war. A man from the Doolitle Raid who saw three of his comrades sign a paper (in Japanese) saying they commited war crimes, and they were killed, forgave the murderer. If he can forgive, we should to. {I got this information from a Documentary. I'm not sure what the man's name is.} -Nick
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Post by Franz Kaiser on Dec 7, 2008 18:48:20 GMT -5
Yes, those soldiers were just trying to make it back home to their families, just like our boys did.
But god bless them all! RIP
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 7, 2008 19:00:54 GMT -5
Surprise attack was pretty screwed if you ask me. The Japanese were incredibly savage with little regard nor remorse for their atrocities as a whole...individually some of them were remorseful of what they did, some helped our guys in POW camps.....still hating a group of people for something they did during an act of war is a little extreme. They flew over an enemy harbour and bombed and straffed the crap out of it. Same thing our men would have and did do. And in the end we nuked the living applesauce out of them I call it even.
and yes RIP to those that were taken on this day in 1941.
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Post by Franz Kaiser on Dec 7, 2008 19:49:43 GMT -5
Yes I would say we're pretty even after the horrible scenes brought by the nuculear attacks, after what they did to us; even though they did it just so we could be out of their way so they could take over the oil they needed that was in Indonesia and conquer the pacific.
Rob
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 7, 2008 20:57:26 GMT -5
God bless everyone who lost there life on this day.
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Young Blood
Corporal
Dog Co. 504 PIR, 82nd Airborne (SoCal)
Posts: 876
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Post by Young Blood on Dec 7, 2008 23:32:37 GMT -5
R.I.P. Soldiers.. -Eddie
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Post by waldo on Dec 7, 2008 23:40:37 GMT -5
And those that killed them can rot in hell. I wouldn't say that. They were doing what they had to do, and we were doing what we had to do, that's war. A man from the Doolitle Raid who saw three of his comrades sign a paper (in Japanese) saying they commited war crimes, and they were killed, forgave the murderer. If he can forgive, we should to. {I got this information from a Documentary. I'm not sure what the man's name is.} -Nick That's a little naive to believe that. Japanese servicemen would not have been open to surrender, and to this day probably have hard feelings, just as our WWII Pacific vets certainly do. It was a completely different kind of war in the Pacific. The "doing their job" crap just doesn't cut it. It was a racial war, one in which it was literally kill or be killed. The two sides fighting each other were fighting to survive, believing one would destroy the others homeland. The Japanese now who are "reconciling" are doing it to save face in the eyes of the rest of the world. Would you believe a murderer who says he is rehabilitated? I talk to a WWII Navy vet who comes into my work all the time, and he feels the same way. I don't know about you, but I believe it will be a long time for those wounds to heal. Nick
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Post by KippySmi7h on Dec 7, 2008 23:53:11 GMT -5
God Bless all those lost on this day. I don't care what anyone says, to me it will always be "A day which will live in infamy."
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azeeze
Private 1st Class
Posts: 622
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Post by azeeze on Dec 8, 2008 0:06:20 GMT -5
The Japs were brutal SOB's , I aint gonna second guess what I said. I said what I said and I meant it, its in stone. That if He can forgive we can forgive BS wont work with me. Yeah some are remorseful for what they did, but so is everyone else. Medic if you want to forgive the ones at pearl harbor, Might as well forgive the guys that crashed the planes in the Twin Towers too? and the Pentagon? and the Hijackers of 93. Since your so remorseful, go ahead and forgive them too. I dont believe in that applesauce . -Nick
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 8, 2008 8:46:22 GMT -5
Azeeze~Your hate in the end really only hurts you. I hope you live long enough to realize that. I am quite sure you think that philosophy is a crock but it is quite true and the older you get the more you realize it.
I do agree the Japanese were brutal SOB's and we gave em back what they gave us and that is what you do in a war I fault none of our servicemen in the heat and madness of the PTO campaigns that may have went over the edge. A lot of us would have done the same thing. It's easy for people back in the world to condemn people for actions they feel uncivilized or brutal, those people for the most part have no right to do so. So while I do understand your indignation and anger at the Japanese at some point you have to let go, realize we won and shoved their nose in it while we were at it and move on and not be so angry about it at some point.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 8, 2008 10:00:15 GMT -5
The war is over, Japan isn't are enemy anymore. To hate your enemies is easy to love them is hard. If we think about it, if we were put into Japan during WWII we could have been one of those Japenese pilots who attacked Pearl Harbor. To wish anyone to "rot in hell" is pretty bad.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 8, 2008 10:14:30 GMT -5
I'd like to point out I'm not quite at the love your enemy point yet Azeeze. I just don't hate them. Sorry Tom I just want to be separated from you on this nothing personal. I certainly feel we owe no honor to any Japanese pilots or naval personnel that were lost during the Pearl attack.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 8, 2008 10:19:57 GMT -5
I am not saying we owe them honor, loving a person doesn't mean you like there actions. To treat someone nice who is nice to you is easy but to treat someone nice who is mean to you is hard and that is true love. Yes in war in the midst of a battle you have to kill your enemies but it doesn't mean you have to treat them like dogs. Its easier said then done especially after seeing friends, fellow soldiers die. I am not stating that if I was in war I would be all smiles towards my enemy because I am not perfect, I am just making a point.
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Post by spitfire740 on Dec 8, 2008 13:43:38 GMT -5
war is hell. There are stories on guatamala and Okinawa where marines would come across a hole, not know if there are civilians or soldiers in there, but just chuck a grenade. Being scared will drive a person mad. The only thing I say is that we can't judge, because we werent there. Japanese were afraid of the Americans "eating their babies" and raping the women so they fought ruthlessly because of the lies they were fed. However, like in the start of the war and especially at Nanking, I will agree with u. Those smurfers can burn in hell. Its just uncalled for to label every Japanese man as a monster, because the government made them believe they were fighting Orcs or somthing.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 8, 2008 13:52:46 GMT -5
You say not all were monsters and they were fed lies and then you say they can burn in hell for all you care.
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Cpl. Hicks
Sergeant
Unofficial Flaggrantly Wrong Weapons Policeman
Posts: 1,425
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Post by Cpl. Hicks on Dec 8, 2008 15:17:06 GMT -5
No, he said the one's that did atrocities during Nanking could burn.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 8, 2008 15:19:07 GMT -5
Sorry I didn't see that.
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Medic
Sergeant
I'm 12 not 25!
Posts: 1,539
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Post by Medic on Dec 8, 2008 15:39:35 GMT -5
Might as well forgive the guys that crashed the planes in the Twin Towers too? and the Pentagon? and the Hijackers of 93. Since your so remorseful, go ahead and forgive them too. I dont believe in that applesauce . -Nick I will forgive them, it is not my job to hate. They did what they thought was right, how could you condemn a person for that? I do not agree with their actions, yes, but that doesn't matter. Remorse is no weakness, remember. -Nick
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azeeze
Private 1st Class
Posts: 622
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Post by azeeze on Dec 8, 2008 16:14:14 GMT -5
Im an Arrogant bastard and thats for sure.
The only forgiveness I see fitting for the monsters who did that are at the end of a rifle.
And at no point sir did i label every Japanese Man as a monster, I labeled, I stated those Japanese involved in the killing at Pearl Harbor to rot in hell, or werever they so "believe" is a bad place.
-Nick
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Medic
Sergeant
I'm 12 not 25!
Posts: 1,539
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Post by Medic on Dec 8, 2008 16:27:17 GMT -5
And at no point sir did i label every Japanese Man as a monster, I labeled, I stated those Japanese involved in the killing at Pearl Harbor to rot in hell, -Nick That's not right, you see, they did what they thought was right at the time. Do you hate the men who dropped nuclear bombs over Japan? Why does nationality matter? Each incident (Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima and Nagasaki) killed many lives. In fact, the country you are defending in this debate killed civilians! I am no patriot or flag-burner, but that is unethical. They mustn't pay for their government. -Nick
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Post by waldo on Dec 8, 2008 17:16:39 GMT -5
Might as well forgive the guys that crashed the planes in the Twin Towers too? and the Pentagon? and the Hijackers of 93. Since your so remorseful, go ahead and forgive them too. I dont believe in that applesauce . -Nick I will forgive them, it is not my job to hate. They did what they thought was right, how could you condemn a person for that? I do not agree with their actions, yes, but that doesn't matter. Remorse is no weakness, remember. -Nick Very simply. Crashing planes filled with jet fuel into buildings operated by innocent civilians with no military importance is not right, any way you think about it. I don't care what anyone says, that is bullapplesauce . The only reason that they did that was because they could not stand up to us in a conventional engagement. They are cowards and murderers, and should not be given any forgiveness for the otherwise. Nick
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Post by lrich on Dec 8, 2008 18:15:53 GMT -5
Never forget that day, and its lessons Not to jump into an argument, but there are three different types of enemies i see. Those who deserve to rot in hell: People who ruthlessly attack civilians who have no military importance (Ex. terrorists who attacked the twin towers and pentagon, Japanese who raped nanking, people who carbomb markets in Iraq, etc.) Those who did what they were forced to do, and don't deserve praise but don't deserve hatred (Japanese who were recruited and forced into fighting in WWII or being killed by their own men) Those who, while being our enemy, deserve compassion for their actions (Japanese soldiers who attempted to stop the wanton killing of POW's, etc.)
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