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Post by max1337 on Nov 23, 2009 0:16:41 GMT -5
Hey, if you can document it,you can do it. >> why? what happened to I can do it because I want to and I can?
Look through your extensive library all you want, it will not teach you to be a better person.
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CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
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Post by CptJericho on Nov 23, 2009 0:51:21 GMT -5
ouch, sad but true.
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Cpl. Hicks
Sergeant
Unofficial Flaggrantly Wrong Weapons Policeman
Posts: 1,425
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Post by Cpl. Hicks on Nov 23, 2009 7:59:15 GMT -5
Sooo... how 'bout that Korean conflict eh?
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Post by kken on Nov 23, 2009 8:03:14 GMT -5
it's sad that maybe you've just been to too many crappy events over 20 yrs time. i know the war dept puts on ww2 events that are equally as high quality as the vietnam ones that HMSG puts on as we are sister orgs. so i can pretty much guarantee that regardless of your race, color or creed, when you join the ranks of whatever unit YOU WANT TO at either org's events, you are learning that unit's history, tactics and EVEN LANGUAGE. NVA infantry are taught basic 3 man cell tactics, they are taught vietnamese commands, and they are taught how your basic NVA grunt lived in the jungle. and as a HMSG organizer AND participant, i can tell you when the applesauce hits the fan and you hear the whistles and bugles blowing and the vietnamese commands yelling, and the blank fire is popping off with airsoft rounds going past your head... you do not give a FCUK what color of skin Charlie may have at that particular moment. it's Charlie out there, plain and simple.
the biggest testament to HMSG events, which both ranger warren and REMF have helped organize, is that REAL WORLD VIETNAM VETS - guys who have been there and done the no applesauce heroics - are absolutely blown away by our attention to historic detail and the effort that goes into ensuring historical accuracy in our tactics and strategies used and taught at HMSG vietnam events. guys like john burford, a 101st ranger LRRP. guys like cal rollins, a MACV SOG CCC recon team leader. and either of those guys will tell you that color doesn't matter one spit IF you have the desire to learn about the history they lived thru and want to feel just 1/100th of what it was like back then.
i have actually become pretty good friends with cal rollins since RECONDO, when he first saw me, a 6'1' korean guy, slog thru hurricane winds rain and mud over the course of 4 days carrying a PRC25 just to get a taste of what it was like for LRRP soldiers back in the day. he came to my Silent Sunset 2 event as a guest instructor and we have been talking weekly on the phone since. i asked him if he found it peculiar that there are guys like me who are into this and he said HELL NO. what he loves is that we have an almost insatiable desire to learn what they went thru in nam, something that people back then and even up to recently, did not really care to hear about, and be historically accurate about what we learn and put into our events.
i would rather take 10 people of all colors of the world who are willing to put in the effort and appreciation of having a historically correct event to the point that the tactics, mannerisms and habits of whoever we are portraying do honor to those we are learning about than 50 white guys sitting around in a foxhole, shooting the applesauce and eating repro crats in their stitch nazi uniforms but have no clue what to really do when the rounds go over your heads.
back to the original topic, i think a korean war event would be absolutely bad ass. maybe the war dept will look into hosting one sometime as i would love to help organize it. i have a lot of resources that can be brought to bear in bringing guest instructors and knowing what the habits of the average soldier on boths side was like.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 8:49:10 GMT -5
You know just looking at this thread i was thinking. Isnt this forum about a hobby? isnt this about airsoft AND ww2? not just reenacting. I personally think Excusing someone from joining a unit, etc.. because of the color of there skin? wow. Perhaps you (fusilier) Should go to a Reenacting forum, and leave those who want to learn about the units, and enjoy a HOBBY, REGARDLESS of race. PS, A friend i know is jewish and he does SS reenacting, i bet you would Decline a Reenactment with him.........
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CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
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Post by CptJericho on Nov 23, 2009 11:06:53 GMT -5
Count me in for help organizing! But I don't have as many good resources as kken has (actually I have none) but ill do what I can
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oberst42
Private
"Oh du Deutschland, ich muss marschieren!"
Posts: 387
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Post by oberst42 on Nov 23, 2009 16:02:23 GMT -5
be fore this turns into a fusilier slam fest, remember, the army WAS segregated from the civil war to WW2
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Nov 23, 2009 16:09:12 GMT -5
be fore this turns inro a fusilier slam fest, remember, the army WAS segrlgated from the civil war to early in vietnam Actually the US ARMY started integrating black troops into white units at the time of the Battle of the Bulge , by the time of the Korean War most units where integrated .
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oberst42
Private
"Oh du Deutschland, ich muss marschieren!"
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Post by oberst42 on Nov 23, 2009 16:26:28 GMT -5
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Nov 23, 2009 16:32:05 GMT -5
Did you actually read the article?
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oberst42
Private
"Oh du Deutschland, ich muss marschieren!"
Posts: 387
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Post by oberst42 on Nov 23, 2009 17:28:50 GMT -5
yes and it looks like integration didn't begin until 1948, but we realy need to get back on topic here
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Post by kken on Nov 23, 2009 17:37:14 GMT -5
be fore this turns inro a fusilier slam fest, remember, the army WAS segrlgated from the civil war to early in vietnam again, another dumb statement. i guess because the german govt had a policy to exterminate the jews back in 1944, it's ok to go around at reenactments and discriminate against jewish participants? once again, LISTEN. reenacting, historical airsoft, living history... it's all about APPRECIATION OF HISTORY. that is open to ANYONE or at least it should be. it is not an excuse to be racist, prejudice, abusive to others who are different from you. if you think ww2 airsoft is an excuse for a bunch of white guys to sit around, drink beer, and toss out racist jokes, then maybe i am in the wrong hobby.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Nov 23, 2009 17:41:51 GMT -5
Integration started in WWII , it was an expedient way to get fresh bodies into the fight when American losses climbed during the Battle of the Bulge , the ARMY had lots of black troops behind the lines in non combat roles , so Divisions started bringing those black troops up to the front lines to make up for the losses.
Books and magazines , plus the veterans themselves are a great way to learn things that Google can't tell you.
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Karl
Private 1st Class
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Post by Karl on Nov 23, 2009 18:39:41 GMT -5
be fore this turns inro a fusilier slam fest, remember, the army WAS segrlgated from the civil war to early in vietnam ???I think you missed the point. I went to a Vietnam event over the summer with "Flaggrantly Wrong white, obese men" (sarcasm for the record) playing roles as the VC and it was the best event I have EVER went to. These "farbs" actually used authentic tactics and lived like a VC, which is more then I can say for WWII "racially authentic" Germans and Americans. Reenacting is a learning expirence. Yes we're recreating history, but we don't have to bring back the dicrimination. I think this goes back to my "Who would like to go to a Pacific Event" poll post. I don't care what race you are, I just want a reasonable number of opponents .
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Post by Fusilier on Nov 23, 2009 18:42:44 GMT -5
Hey, if you can document it,you can do it. >> why? what happened to I can do it because I want to and I can? Look through your extensive library all you want, it will not teach you to be a better person. And you won't! You believe what you like,I follow historical documentation,not what i THINK things should be like according to todays twisted PC morals.
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Karl
Private 1st Class
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Post by Karl on Nov 23, 2009 18:52:38 GMT -5
Hey, if you can document it,you can do it. >> why? what happened to I can do it because I want to and I can? Look through your extensive library all you want, it will not teach you to be a better person. And you won't! You believe what you like,I follow historical documentation,not what i THINK things should be like according to todays twisted PC morals. Wow. Just stop. Your ignorance embarrasses me to be apart of WW2AA. You miss the point of not discrimnating people. not what i THINK things should be like according to todays twisted PC morals. You mean like people who have common sense and don't discriminate others because of their race?
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Post by Fusilier on Nov 23, 2009 18:56:32 GMT -5
i would rather take 10 people of all colors of the world who are willing to put in the effort and appreciation of having a historically correct event to the point that the tactics, mannerisms and habits of whoever we are portraying do honor to those we are learning about than 50 white guys sitting around in a foxhole, shooting the applesauce and eating repro crats in their stitch nazi uniforms but have no clue what to really do when the rounds go over your heads. >>> Been there done it . I heard live rounds flying, so speak for yourself.
I also reenact with Vietnam,and current Gulf War vets who had their fair share of real world firefights thank you.
I put a lot of research into ever impression I do,be it a Rev War militia man, CW volunteer from NY, or NC, and even a German, Soviet or American infantryman from WW2. I just don't go out and buy some crappy half ass uniform and run around the woods. I read books, visit museums ,and look at the material culture of the period,the language,a soldiers background etc. Am I what some of you call a stitch Nazi? Maybe,but thats my choice,I like to do things the way there WERE, not the way somebody wants them to be, or wishes them to be. I don't wish to make light of any impression I do, and I never will.
And this has nothing whatsoever to do about race,how it got there,I don't know. But all of a sudden me and others are being accused of being racially insensitive, and thats not cool.
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Post by volkssturm on Nov 23, 2009 19:40:35 GMT -5
asians have more of a yellowish skin color, but yes we need all the enemys we can get Actually, most of the Asians I've met run from almost Caucasian white to Native American brown. Can't say I've met any who were a true "yellow." But anyway, I see a business opportunity here. A travel agency specializing in group tours for Asians coming here to play in Airsoft games. Imagine, a PTO scenario with real Japanese soldiers for the opposition. Or maybe flying airsoft teams to Asia to play on the actual sites of WWII battles. Of course, the flaw in this plan is I've never met an airsofter/reenactor who had any spare money after buying all the must-haves. (just my weird sense of humior kicking in. This thread was getting pretty intense)
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Post by springfieldarmory on Nov 23, 2009 19:46:18 GMT -5
k guys, i think it's time to make this back into a thread about the Korean War....
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Post by max1337 on Nov 23, 2009 19:50:01 GMT -5
Hey, if you can document it,you can do it. >> why? what happened to I can do it because I want to and I can? Look through your extensive library all you want, it will not teach you to be a better person. And you won't! You believe what you like,I follow historical documentation,not what i THINK things should be like according to todays twisted PC morals. As the matter of fact, I will believe in what I like, in the Constitution of the USoA and the Declaration of Independence, that says I can and will do whatever I feel like. Are these pieces of historical documents good enough for you? Have you researched what you were fighting for as a Revolutionary War Militia? And maybe you did not study the Emancipation Proclamation as a Union volunteer from NY. you sir, is what gives german reenacting a bad name.
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Post by Fusilier on Nov 23, 2009 19:50:40 GMT -5
asians have more of a yellowish skin color, but yes we need all the enemys we can get Actually, most of the Asians I've met run from almost Caucasian white to Native American brown. Can't say I've met any who were a true "yellow." But anyway, I see a business opportunity here. A travel agency specializing in group tours for Asians coming here to play in Airsoft games. Imagine, a PTO scenario with real Japanese soldiers for the opposition. Or maybe flying airsoft teams to Asia to play on the actual sites of WWII battles. Of course, the flaw in this plan is I've never met an airsofter/reenactor who had any spare money after buying all the must-haves. (just my weird sense of humior kicking in. This thread was getting pretty intense) >> I did the 50th Anniversary of D-Day at VA Beach in 1984. Next to us on the beach was a platoon of Japanese who were portraying the Eastern Caucasian units that were in Normandy at the time. They had correct uniforms with "volunteer" armshields and specific insignia and all.I t was the coolest thing! they even got brought to the beach in a German halftrack. They had a blast! They were brought over by an English guy who teaches in Japan,who was also their unit commander.
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Post by volkssturm on Nov 23, 2009 19:50:50 GMT -5
Integration started in WWII , it was an expedient way to get fresh bodies into the fight when American losses climbed during the Battle of the Bulge , the ARMY had lots of black troops behind the lines in non combat roles , so Divisions started bringing those black troops up to the front lines to make up for the losses. Books and magazines , plus the veterans themselves are a great way to learn things that Google can't tell you. What you guys are arguing is the difference between practice and policy. Integration became the official policy in 1948. Defacto integration became a practice late in the war because of manpower demands. You're both right.
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CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
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Post by CptJericho on Nov 23, 2009 20:02:21 GMT -5
Ok, lets get back to korea, some scenarios that we could do are: Battle of Pusan (fight along the Nakdong river and stop the KPA's advance) Battle of Inchon (land on the cost of Inchon and fight your way to Seoul then capture the city) Battle of the Chosin Resevoir (your encircled by chinese, fight your way out and retreat) The UN Offensive (fight northward and capture the city of Pyongyang)
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Post by 5thrangerbat on Nov 23, 2009 20:16:37 GMT -5
We should invite the south koreans and japanese and other asians to help us out here over in the U.S. for our PTO or maybe korean war events for reenacting and airsoft. to bad planes are a huge expense
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Post by kken on Nov 23, 2009 20:26:22 GMT -5
actually you have a LOT of asian americans who are already involved with airsoft. a lot of them who i know have also expressed interest in historical airsoft. however, MANY of them have run into the stereotypical prejudiced/racist views and attitudes that we have discussed here. for personal reasons, i can tell you a lot of korean americans who are generally from south korea have a major problem with people just assuming they will play north koreans. again, there is that racist assumption, oh you are asian, go play the north koreans. wrong.l
YOUR GODDAMN SKIN COLOR HAS NOTHING TO DO NOR SHOULD IT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT SIDE YOU ARE ON IN A HISTORICAL REENACTMENT/AIRSOFT EVENT.
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Post by 5thrangerbat on Nov 23, 2009 20:41:54 GMT -5
I'm korean-american and i can choose who ever i want to display BUT if im gonna display this certain unit im gonna want to do it correctly. basically IF i get everything right then the only thing that would be a prob would be race. but (hopefully) not many will see it by race, but instead look at what your trying to do instead. So thats what im aiming for. Usually i ignore those stupid comments especially at my school and other places. I tell them i reenact and they ask me if i reenact the "bad guys" who are asian i.e N.K, japanese etc. I actually know alot of asians who are interested in historical military reenacting but have either: no money, time, can't make drives or are located far. some of them want to be the "bad guys" anyway, hopefully The korean war may get bigger and have some even more serious reenactments. Hey, maybe theres korean war reenactors in korea we don't know about:P
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CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
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Post by CptJericho on Nov 23, 2009 23:56:07 GMT -5
Looks like I put this in the right spot (lots of ranting and raving...) but back to subject: The Korean War
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alban
Private
Sniper for life.
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Post by alban on Nov 24, 2009 0:32:22 GMT -5
I think a Korean War reenacting-whether airsoft or real steel-is a big breathe of fresh air. It's sad to have any war to bare the title "The Forgotten War" because those who served are forgotten as well. I am sure getting together an impression for either side would not be a huge investment. Like it has been said earlier many of the weapons used in WW2 can be used for a Korean War event as well. I would like to see this happen for sure. Now if only someone had a Sikorsky...
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CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
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Post by CptJericho on Nov 24, 2009 0:46:12 GMT -5
Yes its very sad that the korean war has gotten that title, most people have no clue what that war was about (it was almost ww3 democracy vs communism)
Most US players (leg infantry and marines) could easily attend because they dont have to buy a new uniform or gun...
But people playing north or south korean troops may have a hard time finding a uniform since this was the forgotten war... but the weapons wont be as hard as the uniforms for the north koreans.
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oberst42
Private
"Oh du Deutschland, ich muss marschieren!"
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Post by oberst42 on Nov 24, 2009 2:40:25 GMT -5
every body just drop the race thing, i know i may have brought it up, again very sorry, but we need to just DROP IT, plus everybody knows only lego characters are yellow
EDIT: i guess the simpsons are too
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