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Post by halon on Dec 21, 2009 7:29:45 GMT -5
Hello WWII Airsofters. I have just recently been bitten by the WWII airsoft bug and have JUST started out building up a German impression. I had a question to ask of all the WWII airsofters/reenactors out there before I go any further (read spend more money). As far as playing with airsoft guns goes, are there certain limits placed on weapons?
What I mean is, after investing all the hundreds of dollars for reproduction/authentic uniforms, equipment gear, etc - are squads full of Thompsons SMGs running around with 11.1v lipo batteries shooting 30 rps from a ~200rnd hicap magazine shooting 400fps (while carrying 6 + spare hicaps) or are certain fps restrictions on weapon class and limit of lo/standard/mid cap magazines in place?
If the answer is the former, well then I don't think I'll continue any further down this path to play "regular" airsoft wearing more expensive period gear to "FEEL" like WWII. I may as well buy a full set of Real Crye multicam combat clothes and an Ares Masada/ACR.
If the later, then this is the type of airsoft I've been waiting my whole life to play. I envision SMG classes with 300-315 fps limits using 8.4v (NiCad/Nimh) batteries to keep ROF low (like Tompsons, Grease Gun, MP40, MP44). Rifle classes with 375-400 fps limits (Garand, M1 Carbine, Kar 98, MP44, G43 etc) with up to 9.6v(NiCad/Nimh) or 7.2v (lipo) battery. Machine gunners with 375-400 fps limits using 9.6v(NiCad/Nimh) or 7.2v (lipo) battery (BAR, 1919) or 8.4v for 50 cal; 11.1v lipo max for MG42. Sniper classes with 450-500 fps limits (Springfield 1903, Scoped Kar98). And of course everyone using low/standard/mid cap magazines (ammo capacity close to or really at weapon capacity).
Anyways tell me what you think and how your group plays with airsoft weapons. As it stands, I just bought an AGM MP40 + 10 50rnd magazines and I'm downgrading the stock spring (350fps) to an M100 maybe even a stock m90 . I feel I shouldnt be able to have the same range (400fps) with a 9mm SMG as someone with .30-06(?) Garand.
Oh I HATE hicap magazines and it makes me puke when I see/hear 12 year olds on YouTube or forums review a weapon (AGM MP40) and say it sucks cause there's no hi cap magazines for it (and thats usually their main gripe!) Ok, I'm done ranting.
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Post by shadycadence on Dec 21, 2009 7:48:07 GMT -5
Hey, welcome to the BIG war! Put your fears to rest, the majority of us dislike highcaps too. A while back, your fear was a reality. The Thompson was the affordable period gun, and as such became ubiquitous. The community soon realized this blew. Fortunately, the weapons options have expanded significantly, and this is no longer the case. (Not saying you won't find it somewhere, but it's no longer typical) Although we haven't (AFAIK) gone as far with "classes" as you have thought out, we do aim for a realistic approach to weaponry. How much depends on the event/organizers, so this will vary. Your idea of restricting battery voltage is interesting, to date I don't know if anyone has addressed this. All in all, I think you'll be happy here!
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 21, 2009 9:25:01 GMT -5
Hey man I have an Airsoft Organization and am setting rules for: Low caps ir Mid Caps preffured if you don't have any you can use a High cap(only one though) No upgrading SMG's Rifles should all be 400fps or under with 20grams unless you are a classified sniper with a period scope(note we cannot have a full squad of snipers) A Thompson/MP40 is fine for a starter weapon but eventually you will have to get a Kar98/M1 Garand. Only one support weapon and two SMG's should be used per squad. If you use a modern gun(new guys only) you have to set it on Semi Auto.
I think high ROF batteries are fine for some weapons. The Thompson had a very high rate of fire.
It really gets me too when someone complains about a gun because it has no High cap.
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petermartin14
Private 1st Class
RIP Arne Andersson- Sweden's Finest
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Post by petermartin14 on Dec 21, 2009 14:44:38 GMT -5
sgt tom, those rules are really good! it may be a bit hard to get a k98 for some but overall i like those rules! there shouldent be SMG squads running around with the one dude with the k98.
ps- i hate high cap mags too!
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ersatzjack2
Private 1st Class
"We can still win this thing, once the secret weapons arrive."
Posts: 612
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Post by ersatzjack2 on Dec 21, 2009 15:01:42 GMT -5
The whole scene differs from event organizer to event organizer. However, there are some consistencies and some restraints in the WW2 scene. Like Shady said, I don't think you have to worry too much about WW2 games becoming modern spray fests with high fps weaponry. For one, the manufacture of WW2 guns lags behind modern weaponry. There does seem to be an increasing variety though and custom builds help to fill the gap. Our MOA players try to use lo/mid caps when available and all of our smg's shoot below 400fps. The exception is the newer AGM STG44's which can shoot hotter. We allow them but only at semi-auto. Two reasons for this.... One, there is a dearth of semi-auto weapon choices and two, they exist. Some of our guys have put in weaker springs (under 400fps) so they can use their STG's on full auto and we haven't been deluged with them yet. When we do, we'll put more restraints on them. When used that way, they count as mg's. Our MG's are well below 400 but have the huge mags which make suppression fire so effective. Our rifles (bolt action) are 400-500 fps and it makes no difference if you are scoped or not. A scope wouldn't increase the velocity, just the accuracy and in airsoft, a scope is actually less effective because the ballistics of a pb are quite different than a bullet. If you want the scope go for it for looks sake but they're not going to help you get more kills. These rifles are great at outranging the smg's but we limit them by placing them in the hands of older players who honor 50 foot engagement rules. Up close, they can hurt. On the flip side, they are better when supported by a smg close by. Otherwise, you lack the firepower from a couple guys assaulting with smgs. Add in grenades, mortars, vehicles, anti-tank nerf weaponry, and the mix makes for a lot of interest in the battles. Put simply, if it's auto, it should be 300-400 fps. Single action 400-500 fps. Automatics use low capacity magazines unless they are the squad machine guns.
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Post by CPL. Mills 2nd Rangers on Dec 21, 2009 15:25:54 GMT -5
Our MOA players try to use lo/mid caps when available and all of our smg's shoot below 400fps. The exception is the newer AGM STG44's which can shoot hotter. We allow them but only at semi-auto. Two reasons for this.... One, there is a dearth of semi-auto weapon choices and two, they exist. Some of our guys have put in weaker springs (under 400fps) so they can use their STG's on full auto and we haven't been deluged with them yet. When we do, we'll put more restraints on them. When used that way, they count as mg's. I believe somebody told me the MP44s shoot 390fps, barely below the 400fps rule. before the MP44s came around I didnt know of any period SMG that shot more that 340fps, 390 full auto is a bit much, and it feels like the people that down graded to the 390fps did so just to squeeze just under the 400fps rule and still have almost rifle range and accuracy. And if any of you are wondering my Thompson shoots at 325fps.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 21, 2009 18:38:47 GMT -5
Do you have a CYMA Thompson? I thought they shot like 350 with 20grams?
Thanks man. As far as rifles go, It shouldn't be too hard. If they are short on cash they get a M14(for US) or BAR-10(for Axis) and then they can start slowly converting it, so it isn't like spending $300 all at once or anything.
It just seems to me if your just an ordinary rifle man you shouldn't need a 500fps rifle. I mean most guys should have a rifle and then if most of them were shooting 500fps there would be no close quarters. That's why I think 450-500fps should be a Sniper thing. Degrading the MP44 sounds like a good idea. I am guessing its better on Full auto as even though the FPS is high I've heard it isn't the most accurate.
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Post by halon on Dec 21, 2009 19:12:43 GMT -5
Thanks all for the responses. I used 400fps (with .2 bbs) for most weapons as a safety limit. But I wouldnt mind playing with SMG upto 350fps and AEG rifles up to 450 as long as ROF is appropriate for that weapon as this would enable longer range engagements (but make close range fighting more dangerous/painful).
As far as weapon upgrading/downgrading goes - I think it's a lame for someone who's spent +$800 for period uniforms, gear and weaponry to not shell out $15 for a lower rated spring and $50 to $75 for a few standard/midcap magazines (if available for weapon). This is fine for new players (and they should be encouraged to make magazines their next purchase) but if youre a veteran player, well....
I'm even going to try and run a 7.2v battery in my MP40 to further lower ROF. Im also not going to try and put in a tightbore barrel and just use the stock one to keep it as accurate a SMG should be - not rifle accuracy.
I know the whole "airsoft bbs aren't bullets" argument with regard to accuracy/ammo capacity; so I think the "hardcore" rule of only 8 rounds in a Garand magazine, 32 in mp40s could be fun but itd be more practical to just use standard/mid cap magazines (I kinda dislike midcap magazines as well but not as much as I HATE hicaps - I LOVE standards (40-80 rounds, etc)) So maybe limit either magazines types - as many standards as you can carry, 6 Midcaps, or 1 Hicap (for new players ONLY).
Im not saying everyone is running around with lipos, but if there is someone out there at a game - are they "encouraged" to put in a lower voltage battery or would everyone just shrug there shoulders and not say anything?
Thanks!
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 21, 2009 19:55:18 GMT -5
I didn't have enough cash to get low caps so I got the 5 for $50 mid cap deal on Airsoft GI. I personally like the feeding better then high caps and you also have the satisfaction of reloading instead of just spraying with the same mag the whole skirmish. The whole Airsoft guns are not as accurate as real guns thing is true but the thing is you won't run outta ammo with your low cap if you don't waste shots trying to shoot through trees and far away targets lol.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 21, 2009 21:35:04 GMT -5
Many of the things you have mentioned were mere discussions just a few years ago and the majority of folks thought such suggestions were wild fantasies that would never come to fruition. As the community has grown and the variety of weapons and affordability has become more acceptable you see more and more groups striving for, mandating or in most cases strongly suggesting the approaches and concepts you propose. It's still a very small community and is in a grwoth stage that has to balance long term vision with current acceptance among willing participants.
Getting a reasonable sized group to agree on standards and regs is always challenging. Consensus and trail and error are still the pervasive approach. ("Let's try this and see how it goes...")
We're still at a stage where most groups will accept compromises to promote participation in the hopes that the fresh approach will hook the new participant and addict them to a new approach to airsoft. Thus far it seems to be working. With each event the impressions get better and better. The emmersive aspects play a bigger and bigger role and the ammo limits, mag rules and medic rules increasingly are changing the game (In my mind for the better)
There are still prescious few organized groups putting on quality events but that too is changing. It sounds like you have lots to contribute ideas wise and with a high level of potential enthusiasm.
Welcome to the boards.
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Ersatzjack
Corporal
"That silly Franz... he thinks we are winning."
Posts: 1,093
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Post by Ersatzjack on Dec 21, 2009 22:17:57 GMT -5
2nd Bat makes an excellent point and that is you can't just establish rules in a vacuum. There are nods and compromises to be made to keep players participating. Anyone can try and have a rule set and a standard but be prepared for unhappy players since not everyone will agree on every point. Even if you have the land and sponsor the event and hold all the cards, you still have to reach a consensus with players that you want to attract and keep coming back. Hey, just saying... ;D
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Post by halon on Dec 21, 2009 22:19:19 GMT -5
2nd Bat: Thanks. I'm new to WWII airsoft but have been playing for the last 8 years or so. It's just that I recently entered a funk and lost the desire to play. It gets tiring being the only one (at a moderately sized game ~20-40 people) using standard mags (at one point star locaps) using 9.6v batts while just about everyone else was running around with lipos and pouches full of disgusting hi cap mags (or worse yet drum mags on M4s or using M249s like assault rifles and Minigun ROF). For the longest time I had tried to get the smaller group I play with to go for standard/midcap/locap mags. A few did the switch. When new people joined us - we tried getting them to use 1 hicap mag and encouraged them to buy some standard mags. It was always the same excuse of "I can't afford it right now". So they either stopped playing with us or showed up with some new piece of pricey armor/camo or even... MORE hicaps! My group hasnt played together in 3 months and I was getting more and more discouraged - to the point of wanting to sell all my gear. That's when I discovered WWII Airsoft. I was planning on attending a WWII themed game with the Cimmerians (northern California) and dove head first to gather my gear for the game. Unfortunately my gear didnt show up in time and I missed the game - but I started looking around and discovered a few US and German groups around Sacramento. So I started researching about German repro gear and stuffs. Then I stopped and started thinking - This is an expensive niche in airsoft to get into. If its going to be standard airsoft play with pricey WWII gear then I'll pass and stick to wearing my multicams and playing with my M4... I find that if youre going to get the gear to play WWII airsoft you need to have some level of maturity. So although playing with looser requirement to attract other players is good for growth; they should eventually be encoraged/required to conform with fps and ammo restrictions. This would "weed out" those just wanting to "try out" from those with a genuine desire to do WWII airsofting. WWII airsofting is not for the faint of wallet...
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Post by CPL. Mills 2nd Rangers on Dec 22, 2009 2:07:14 GMT -5
Do you have a CYMA Thompson? I thought they shot like 350 with 20grams? Tokyo Marui with a level 1 upgrade from Redwolf
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 22, 2009 14:02:53 GMT -5
Halon,
You will find a refreshing group of players within the WW2 and Namsofting groups since you'll find folks who are mostly about the realism and not about "winning" in the traditional airsoft sense. What we find is that those attracted to the concept increasingly get more and more into it with every event and I suspect the approach is far more in line with your vision of what airsoft should be like.
Everyone has their own notions about how they like to play. Finding folks who think alike is the key. For years my son and I played exclusively with real cap and low cap magazines and like you occassionally got frustrated by the (Gear ROF and mag capacity escalation game)
For local events, years ago I literally bought hundreds and hundreds of low caps for the most common weapons and issued them out to encourage their use. It was an expensive way to change the game and only seemed to gain acceptance at the historical mil sim oriented events. To a large extent the approach worked. Many of the participants really really liked the way it effected play and added to the authenticity. (Some did not) Eventually most of the serious players acquired their own large numbers of low cap mags and the need for the supply shack supplementing them has gone down considerably.
I still shipped 150 low cap mags to the East coast for Nam events I attended there. It makes a difference in the event. Eventually the concept of different FPS to sync in line with weapons types may come about but that's a hurdle yet to be leaped. The reality is the difference in functional range for a 290 FPS weapon and 400 FPS weapon is miniscule and doesn't come close to replicating the effectiveness discrepencies between pistol ammunition and rifle ammunition at range.
Limiting the overall number of people who can fire full auto and limiting the MGs to box mags or high caps is the easiset approach to added authenticity in my opinion. We still don't have enough choice availability for affordable weapons types so often Thompson gunners have to be asked to replicate riflemen and fire semi only.
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Dec 23, 2009 10:32:09 GMT -5
In the UK we have various rulesets depending on who wrote them for which group that runs them, the two most used are the PBI and CiA set (I wrote the majority of both rules sets)
I'll run them past you now.
PBI rules.
Squads are layed out as best they can be towards a real units compostion (ie we dont allow more than one support weapon per ten men on average, we aim for 50 per cent minimum rifles.)
SMG and Rifle carrying troops can carry 300 rounds on them at any one time until they are dead or resupplied via the scenarios rules.
Only two grenades can be carried unless you're wearing specialist pioneer/engineer/grenadier webbing (while not massively 'realistic' this stops players with deep pockets carrying stupid amounts of pyro)
Aegs can be up to 330 fps, single shot bolt actions up to 500 fps but have a minimum engagement range of 25 metres - tweak your rifle to below 350 and you can dispense with the MED.
Support weapons like brens and mg42s can fire up to 330 and have 1000 rounds, 500 can be carried by the operator the loader has to carry the rest. LMGs and the like *have* to be fired from prone or rested on an object like a wall (or other player).
If you're hit you're wounded, you can be healed by a designated medic (or in some scenarios any friendly player) who reaches you and roleplays treating the wound (you're expected to scream and shout when hit until treated rather than shout 'hit' and walk off). Once the bandage is secured (lower parts of limbs cant be used to stop rubbish play like putting your arm through a hole in a wall to be 'healed') you're back in, hit again and you are DEAD until the next scenario .. No Regen as its frankly pants...
If you are hit by an explosive you are dead full stop without any chance of being healed, only hard cover like a wall or metal sheeting will save you, hiding behind a bush obviously doesn't help.
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Post by volkssturm on Dec 23, 2009 15:08:49 GMT -5
I like your rules. A friend an I were talking about how to redeuce the amount of BB spraying in an upcoming modern game. We thought about limiting it to mid/low caps, but most people have high-caps. The latest idea we've come up with is issuing a basic load of ammo (300 rds in a sealed baggie) at the start of the game and then they'll have to arrange for ressuply, also in small quantities, during the game. Not sure if it's going to fly.
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Post by shadycadence on Dec 23, 2009 18:49:19 GMT -5
I like your rules. A friend an I were talking about how to redeuce the amount of BB spraying in an upcoming modern game. We thought about limiting it to mid/low caps, but most people have high-caps. The latest idea we've come up with is issuing a basic load of ammo (300 rds in a sealed baggie) at the start of the game and then they'll have to arrange for ressuply, also in small quantities, during the game. Not sure if it's going to fly. I think you'll find folks will smuggle ammo with them. What we do to prevent the hose fests is allow as many standards and mids as you can carry, or one highcap. We have also allowed one extra highcap to be carried(in case the other one breaks), but it must remain unloaded. We're(the TOC, my modern group) actually considering a game just for the sprayers. No storyline, no (or very simple) objectives, no restrictions, just all-out war. Bring everything. Edited for clarity. Thanks EJ!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 24, 2009 11:55:56 GMT -5
One of things that attracts me to Historical oriented airsoft is the folks it seems to attract. Because they are more ficused on emmersion and authenticity the desire to "cheat" just doesn't seem as far up the flag pole of their needs. I find if a rule is established and they see it as supporting the realism they tend to go along with it. For low caps I always ship about 200 low cap magazines to the event for issue to those who don't have sufficient low caps to function. With each event I'm lending out less and less of them cause the folks get hooked on the concept and increasing buy more and more on their own. I also ship tracer mags and tracer units as this too adds greatly to the events. In addition our group has collectively several dozen decent impressions that can fully equip a fellow who wants to give the event a try without shelling out the full investment. Invariably 2/3rd of them are hooked.
My latest thought is to add a brick to their ruck sack for every 200 rounds of ammo they lug.
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Post by Fusilier on Dec 24, 2009 12:20:23 GMT -5
Now,what about those who have weapons that don't have hi-caps,such as the Stg-44? One of those mags holds more than was normally issued to a German soldier,450 rounds,as opposed to 210 rounds if that soldier had 7 mags. I have 6 of those hi caps,and had them at an event,I used barely 2. Next event I plan on using my MP-40 with low caps.
Unfortunately,a lot of guys in the hobby like the hi-caps.No so much on this forum,but elsewhere. Sadly,there aren't any manufacturers making or even thinking about making mid,or low caps for this weapon.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 24, 2009 14:33:19 GMT -5
As for no midcaps for the Stg I seem to recall you can mod the Stg mags with MP7 mid-mags internals and there you have it. Another option is to make a block or something that takes up enough space internally in your hicaps so that in essence you have a midcap. The gripe is really that you have 4-600 rounds not that it winds. So if you can show an event promoter that your mag holds no more than 120-150 rounds you have for all intents and purposes a midcap. This is why I cut down my Thompson Hicaps to 20 rounder size. The midcaps they sell are 30 round long mags. That seemed pretty lame to me so I cut down hicaps and they hold the same amount of ammo. Our group also uses the 1 hicap or as many mids/lows as you can reasonably carry.
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Post by Fusilier on Dec 24, 2009 18:41:36 GMT -5
As for no midcaps for the Stg I seem to recall you can mod the Stg mags with MP7 mid-mags internals and there you have it. Another option is to make a block or something that takes up enough space internally in your hicaps so that in essence you have a midcap. The gripe is really that you have 4-600 rounds not that it winds. So if you can show an event promoter that your mag holds no more than 120-150 rounds you have for all intents and purposes a midcap. This is why I cut down my Thompson Hicaps to 20 rounder size. The midcaps they sell are 30 round long mags. That seemed pretty lame to me so I cut down hicaps and they hold the same amount of ammo. Our group also uses the 1 hicap or as many mids/lows as you can reasonably carry. >> But hey,I'm a lazy bastard when it comes to modding and whatnot! LOL! I was never a hi-cap fan,even in modern AS. Every hi cap I ever got just sat and gathered dust,unless it was all I had. I'm just VERY surprised some company hasn't made a mid or low cap mag yet.
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Post by squirrelcat on Dec 24, 2009 23:00:18 GMT -5
But hey,I'm a lazy bastard when it comes to modding and whatnot! LOL! I was never a hi-cap fan,even in modern AS. Every hi cap I ever got just sat and gathered dust,unless it was all I had. I'm just VERY surprised some company hasn't made a mid or low cap mag yet. I know right. I hate using high cap magazines, they piss me off cause you have to wind them up all the time. I mean I can understand for guns with rediculus ROF's like the PPsh but not for slow STG's. I mean that is my opinion but you shouldn't have to wind a gun's mag
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petermartin14
Private 1st Class
RIP Arne Andersson- Sweden's Finest
Posts: 639
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Post by petermartin14 on Dec 25, 2009 6:23:23 GMT -5
hahaha then they break. -merry christmas
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 25, 2009 10:37:26 GMT -5
Ooookay so if you have a Stg and no hope of low caps and can't be bothered to mod what you have then I guess some producers will let you use 1 hicap. Problem solved. Again the issue should be the amount of ammunition not the method of moving it from the mag to the gun but whatever floats your boat.
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Post by kken on Dec 25, 2009 11:19:00 GMT -5
what this particular community can do is agree to have and adhere to a community-wide limits... no winding caps if others are not available... 330 fps for smgs, 430 for rifles. got to start somewhere.
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Post by toboggan on Dec 25, 2009 12:23:50 GMT -5
I LOVE THIS THREAD. i wish i would have read this earlier. I think high caps should be obsolete. Ive been thinking of tearig a few midcaps apart and seeing how they work, and start making some mid/lows/real caps for wwii guns out there now. I've always wanted to be as realistic as possible. I think that m1 garands should have 8 shots, and so on and so forth. I also agree that WW2AA should have a community wide agreement on what fps/mags/etc to use!
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ersatzjack2
Private 1st Class
"We can still win this thing, once the secret weapons arrive."
Posts: 612
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Post by ersatzjack2 on Dec 25, 2009 13:35:47 GMT -5
what this particular community can do is agree to have and adhere to a community-wide limits... no winding caps if others are not available... 330 fps for smgs, 430 for rifles. got to start somewhere. Ok, so you set the standards and who enforces them? Who decides the standards? I'm not disagreeing with the concept but think it is unrealistic. Of the 8-10 rifles that my brother has made it seems that each one shoots slightly differently. They chrono anywhere from 420's (earlier ones) to almost 500 (Shady Cadence) and that is because they have all used different combinations of springs, sears, barrels, etc. during the experimentation of the K98 builds. Would many of these rifles now be unacceptable? I'm thinking many 3rd Panzergrenadier members who paid a lot of money for their rifles would not like this. Many smg's are in excess of 330 fps and the same problem would apply. A lot of the stg's shoot well over 400 out of the box. That's why limits are in the hands of event organizers. They deal with the liability issue and it is their call as to what to allow. There is a limit to what these guns can do and if you chrono before events you can always check for a really hot gun. Like I said in my earlier post, 400 and below for smgs and 500 and below for rifles (bolt action or semi-auto). Those standards along with minimum engagement rules for rifles are working for the MOA. Remember 2nd Batt's point too. You have to balance things and in certain cases ease restrictions to promote participation and growth in this hobby.
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Post by toboggan on Dec 25, 2009 14:33:44 GMT -5
[quote author=ersatzjack2 Like I said in my earlier post, 400 and below for smgs and 500 and below for rifles (bolt action or semi-auto). Those standards along with minimum engagement rules for rifles are working for the MOA. Remember 2nd Batt's point too. You have to balance things and in certain cases ease restrictions to promote participation and growth in this hobby.[/quote]
I like these FPS limits. because no matter what, everyone's guns shoot a little differently, and we cannot help that. I think a broad fps limit. like 400< for smgs, and 500< for rifles, doesn't matter what rifle either as long as it's bolt action or semi. I bet, correct me if i'm wrong, but i bet that if you shot a M1 Garand, and a springfield, they would both have about the same fps. give or take a little.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 25, 2009 15:18:22 GMT -5
Again I don't feel winding is the problem. The issue is ammo allotment. If my hicap has been modified to fir 150 rounds why should I not be able to use it when plenty of mids use 100-150 rounds. I'm still swapping mags just as much as a midcapper is. FPS limits should be left to individal promoters and the insurance they carry. The insurance at the field I use requires masks for under 18 400FPS for AEG and 550 for single shot sniper types with minimum engagement distances. Others in another part of the country may have different limits. A WW2AA set of rules has been talked about before. We think that we are more of a collective of inidviduals than a sanctioning body. Certainly a good discussion to have amongst the people that are known producers of WW2 games though. If the current 3 major US promoters/producers(BattleSim/WarDept, MOA, and Southeast WW2 Group) can come to a consensus than no matter where you went to play in the US at a major event then you would know the same rules would apply all over. I am thinking KKen will soon join those ranks. He runs good Nam events.
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Dec 25, 2009 15:47:46 GMT -5
We find the 300 round limit creates no cheating at all, its small scene and as someone else mentioned doesnt tend to attract those who want to cheat or exploit the rules - equally no one wants to risk being branded a cheat when they know they'd get banned from all UK games.
Its pretty self policing really.
We're lucky in that most event sin the UK have used the CIA ruleset, the PBI rules set is becoming as if not more popular now as its slightly more realistic (in fact the cia set now incorporates the same ammo limits as the PBI set). As CiA and PBI ran most of the UKs first WWII games folk saw these rules worked really well and tend to adopt them rather than creating untried new systems. We dont ban hicaps as some weapons as said only come with hi caps but also some custom guns have an internal hi cap mag as part of the design (shoot n scoot stens for example)
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