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Post by lukearo on Jan 21, 2010 21:26:45 GMT -5
I've been on goggle for ever and i still cant find a good British impressions
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deacon
Private 1st Class
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Post by deacon on Jan 21, 2010 22:28:05 GMT -5
Hmmm, goggle, like the things you wear on your head? Try looking on Google, that might help. No, but in all seriousness you should easily be able to find some pics here 8tharmygroup.webs.com/apps/photos/or if your doing Para look here www.1stairborne.com/Its really not hard to find impression pics. If you go to At the Front, and look at their Reenacting organizations and units page under links, your bound to find something useful.
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Jan 22, 2010 8:20:20 GMT -5
Right, what do you want to do. Line inf, commando, airborne (remember the majority of British airborne units were airlanding not parachute so try to avoid the term 'para') What theatre, Desert, Pacific, Med, Europe What year? 1939 or 1945. The British soldier in the BEF is a totally different look to that of late war inf If you know what you want to do I can definitely help you. Heres some examples: Hallamshire Battalion June 44 SAS NWE Sept 44 Gordon Highlanders Dunkirk 39 2nd battalion South Staffords Sept 44 Market Garden 52nd lowland division early 45 Chindit Burma 44 1st Army, Western Desert 41/42 2 commando Italy 43 SBS Island Raider, Mediterranean 42/43 So what sort of look were you going for?
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Jan 22, 2010 8:32:51 GMT -5
I'd also recommend not using either of the above listed groups as reference, some of their stuff is 'creative' if not down right Flaggrantly Wrong. If you want to look at a *good* airborne unit (other than our lot - we're actually pretty well respected in the UK) then i'd suggest 'just ordinary men' they are spot on. www.justordinarymen.org.uk/index.html?_ret_=returnAs are 'VERA'. www.vera.org.uk/HOME.htmTheres just so much wrong in the photos of the other groups I just dont know where to start. While i'm all for folk making their hobby what they want it to be , if you're going to start out your reference should be the best you can get. Lastly you can see my unit here: www.wwiireenacting.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=142&t=54608
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Post by volkssturm on Jan 22, 2010 15:24:55 GMT -5
A couple nitpicking points on the above pics:
Did anyone actually wear a kilt in combat in 1940?
"1st Army, Western Desert 41/42"? Don't they mean 8th Army? The British First Army landed in North Africa and fought in Algeria and Tunisia in '42/43.
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Post by sir veilance on Jan 22, 2010 19:46:02 GMT -5
Thanks for the great links Gadge! I was hoping someone from your side of the pond, would jump in here with some good references for Brit Kit. I found some cool stuff on there. I really like the "Just Oridinary Men" link!! I see I am packing my small pack correctly!
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Jan 23, 2010 5:02:48 GMT -5
A couple nitpicking points on the above pics: Did anyone actually wear a kilt in combat in 1940? "1st Army, Western Desert 41/42"? Don't they mean 8th Army? The British First Army landed in North Africa and fought in Algeria and Tunisia in '42/43. Yup, kilts were worn in the battle for France by some units. Last recorded use of them on mass is the liverpool scottish on the St nazaire raid from memory. That was 1942. edit: yup see the guy sitting down at 1.11 here, hes in a kit, most of the liverpool scottish wore them - forbes tartan. www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOK0hJxj4TILast individual use was pipers and some officers up until 45.
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Post by volkssturm on Jan 24, 2010 0:48:08 GMT -5
Interesting. I thought they'd gone out of use in combat during WWI.
What uniform is the camou jacket and trousers? Looks like a different pattern than the Dennison smock.
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Jan 24, 2010 7:05:24 GMT -5
its the 'windproof suit - camouflage' (although examples in white & stone/beige are also sometime labelled identically - most likely a war economy to save printing labels again.)
Thought by a lot of people (wrongly) to be an 'sas suit' but actually on general issue by the winter of 43. Some divisions seem to have had enough for assault and recce units and snipers etc... others like the 52nd lowland appear to have had them issued to every man in the unit.
Very popular with snipers.
Its fairly similar to denison in the 'brushstroke' approach but has slighly different less yellow tones, they saw service well into the 70s and you can still find good quality originals.
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Post by volkssturm on Jan 24, 2010 16:01:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. I haven't heard of those camou suits before. I've often wondered at the general lack of enthusiasm the US seems to have had as far as designing camou uniforms.
Good pics of good impressions.
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Post by patches on Feb 3, 2010 14:39:58 GMT -5
Hey gadge, how bulky is the Denison supposed to be?
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Feb 3, 2010 17:51:07 GMT -5
Like a tent mate.
You were issued them from stores and they are *supposed* to be able to go over all your kit in theory (although a seperate oversmock was issued to cover the webbing).
It *should* belong enough to reach between below groin to mid thigh and sometimes lower, it should also be quite baggy. If it fits you like modern BDU then its wrong.
It weighs quite a lot dry and even more wet.
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Post by patches on Feb 3, 2010 18:35:12 GMT -5
Awesome, thanks!
Next question:
Is there a method for shaping one's beret?
Next dumb quesiton:
I've got a para beret badge, with a tab on the back of it. My beret appears to not have any matching recepticle. How should I attach this?
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Feb 4, 2010 5:33:36 GMT -5
Sensible questions those.
There is a proper way to shape a beret, however it wasnt really done in the 40s that much (nowadays you'd be on a charge for *not* shaping you headress but then it was only those who wanted to look smart who did it... most citizen soldiers didnt really care)
From a modern guide i wrote:
"Beret
Often the most poorly imitated and worn part of a British impression is the essential beret.
Each regiment has its own peculiarities, colour and cap badge but I shall deal with the type of beret common to many infantry regiments.
If you are lucky to have bought or acquired a shaped beret then you can skip this part, if on the other hand you have bought a new and unissued beret then read on.
Remove the cap badge (if it has one) from your beret and soak the beret in very hot water, then quickly plunge it in to cold water and wring off excess water, place it once again in hot water, squeeze the worst off then place it on your head… Yes that’s right put it on your head, soaking wet.
Place the beret so that the cap badge area is over the left eye, the leather band at the front should rest about an inch above the eyebrow, the band at the back should be either straight level or ideally rest on the upper part of the crown . Pull the fabric of the beret down on the right hand side, folded over to rest above the right ear. You may find it useful to place a plastic ‘shaper’ behind the cap badge are to create a more pronounced ridge.
Wear the beret until it is dry and has shaped and moulded itself to your particular head shape, once shaped in this way it will stay like that for some time.
Finally using hot water and a normal shaving razor shave the surface of the beret to remove any stray fibres and ‘bobbling’, then, using a cocktail stick or similar push the ends of the ties emerging from the leather band into the opposing sleeves of the band itself, do not leave these dangling loosely in a ‘European’ style."
remember you need a 10 and a hlaf inch crown beret as modern berets are far too small.
As for the badge, I'd need to see a picture of the fixture. If its just a metal bar bent over you usually just cut a small slit in the beret and slide it in. Most berets have a leather patch on the back where the badge sits.
Hope that helps.
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Post by patches on Feb 5, 2010 14:44:12 GMT -5
Excellent, thanks again!
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Post by patches on Feb 19, 2010 15:09:23 GMT -5
Another question:
So I've got my new P37 uniform, and aside from being a little stiff, it smells like a well-oiled sheep. What's the best way of washing it? I assume by hand, no dryer, etc.
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Post by sir veilance on Feb 19, 2010 15:49:22 GMT -5
Another question:
So I've got my new P37 uniform, and aside from being a little stiff, it smells like a well-oiled sheep. What's the best way of washing it? I assume by hand, no dryer, etc. I've learned to love that smell! I hand wash with Woolite, just follow the instructions on the bottle. Hang to dry, DO NOT PUT IN A DRYER!!!
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gadge
Corporal
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Post by gadge on Feb 19, 2010 20:03:54 GMT -5
Dont even wash it unless you *really* have to
Just wear it in , the smell will go.
When it gets dirty let it dry and brush it with a stiff clothes brush, you really dont want to wash BD unless you have to.
Personally I take mine to the dry cleaners every few months.
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Post by ash on Feb 23, 2010 5:20:02 GMT -5
Another question:
So I've got my new P37 uniform, and aside from being a little stiff, it smells like a well-oiled sheep. What's the best way of washing it? I assume by hand, no dryer, etc. I had my BD dry cleaned (I bought it used from a store which had rescued it from long term storage) and I would really recommend it.
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Post by sir veilance on Feb 23, 2010 9:39:06 GMT -5
Yes you can have it dry cleaned too, but who in WW2 stopped in the field to have their uniform dry cleaned ;D I like what old uniforms smell like, so I don't clean them for that reason. If they are just caked in mud, a brush helps, but if you get as muddy as I do, a brush is not enough and a dry cleaner would laugh at you when you brought it in Wool can get wet so hand washing is OK, just never put it in a drier.
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Feb 23, 2010 11:35:13 GMT -5
The problem is that you would have been issued two sets, a best and field set of BD, your best stayed on unit transport and was reserved for when you needed to look smart.
Few of us can afford to have two sets of proper BD so its a pig getting them from field use to 'walking out' , a dry cleaner is often the best bet.
I've wet washed by airborne BD once in eight years and never again as it was such a pain.
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Post by patches on Feb 23, 2010 18:16:12 GMT -5
Thanks guys! Two more questions, should my gaitors be blancoed, and if so, to the same color as my webbing?
Where can I get an AB64?
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Feb 23, 2010 18:45:44 GMT -5
Yes and they are technically 'anklets' soldiers wear anklet, farmers wear gaiters Or so recruits would be told. Blanco *all* webbing thats personal issue and not mission specific from stores so... blanco: belt belt, web braces, ammo pouches, water bottle carrier, etool carrier, small pack, L straps, bayonet frog, large pack , utility straps, officers valise, anklets. dont blanco: box respirators, lightweight ressie cases, bren auxillary pouches, map cases, sten bandoliers, bren parts wallets, bren barrel valise, 303 bandoliers, rifle slings. AB64, WPG probably do one, sentimental journey definitly do.
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Post by sir veilance on Feb 23, 2010 19:21:16 GMT -5
The problem is that you would have been issued two sets, a best and field set of BD, your best stayed on unit transport and was reserved for when you needed to look smart. Few of us can afford to have two sets of proper BD so its a pig getting them from field use to 'walking out' , a dry cleaner is often the best bet. I've wet washed by airborne BD once in eight years and never again as it was such a pain. Two sets would be the way to go, but I don't do walking out impressions, so I can dodge that one. I hand wash all my wools, German and British, when they are very muddy. I wash them just to get the mud out and not for walking out. I just wash them in a tub on my back deck and hang them on a clothes line to dry. I guess I've done it enough that it is easy to me.
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Post by sir veilance on Feb 23, 2010 19:30:09 GMT -5
dont blanco: ............ bren auxillary pouches, map cases, sten bandoliers, bren parts wallets, bren barrel valise, 303 bandoliers, rifle slings. I was going to ask about that! I have noticed in photos of reenactors that some items, like Sten Bandoliers, one of which I just bought, were not blancoed. I thought maybe they hadn't had a chance to do that. So I'll take note not to blanco the Sten Bandolier. Besides being a different material, like the lightweight ressie bag, why are some web items blancoed and others are not?
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MAS
Private 1st Class
Posts: 590
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Post by MAS on Feb 23, 2010 20:17:44 GMT -5
did the 6th paras wear para trousers with 37' bd trousers under that or just para trousers?
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Feb 23, 2010 20:20:51 GMT -5
You blanco your own personal kit for several reasons.
Officially 1) camouflages the item 2) its a preservative 3) Unifies the various shades
unofficially it gives peacetime soldiers something to do! Part of the British army concept of BBB.
You basically blanco your own issue of stuff it takes time. You dont blanco the ressie cases as these were apprently gas treated (and the later ones were the right shade too). You dont blanco the sling as I imagine you'd end up with blanco all over your hands, same with helmet chin straps.
All the other items in the 'dont blanco' list are items taken from stores for jobs and would be drawn out and put back in again afterwards. There would be *thousands* of them in stores and no one woudl be assigned to blanco them, equally nobody would want the extra work of blancoing stuff that wasnt yours once drawn if you didnt have to.
Note you also dont blanco the backs of the large and small pack or the basic pouches to stop blanco rubbing off on your battledress.
An example of when to and when not to blanco webbing is bino cases. An officer would blanco his as it was his own personal issue, a set drawn from stores on a scouting mission would not be blancoed.
Some units used other things than blanco. 1 RTR scrubbed their webbing to be pale and raw, as did some commando units (made it easier to see at night to aid squad cohesion at short range). I cant recall who it was but one infantry unit used boot polish to have black webbing.
The kit issue thing still happend these days, when i was a Stafford i kept my own webbing and helemt in my room but some kit like night vision equipment was drawn from stores and came in its own webbing pouch, to be returned after the patrol or whatever.
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gadge
Corporal
Posts: 1,199
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Post by gadge on Feb 23, 2010 20:41:39 GMT -5
did the 6th paras wear para trousers with 37' bd trousers under that or just para trousers? Right unless you're specifically talking about the parachute battalions in the division its best to say 'Airborne' as the majority of the division was glider borne. Para trousers were on a scale of issue of about one pair per five men, much better to buy normal 37 or 40 pattern as you'll get more use out of them as you can use them for a lot of impressions. Paratrousers let you do paratrooper and thats about it. And they only wore one pair of trousers lol
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MAS
Private 1st Class
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Post by MAS on Feb 23, 2010 20:48:50 GMT -5
Alright thanks i'll just get 37 bd unfournatly my proities for now are,
modern airsoft nam airsoft ww2
what unit would you suggest? I think 6th airbourne would be a nice unit to do...
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gadge
Corporal
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Post by gadge on Feb 24, 2010 0:27:53 GMT -5
6th Airborne is an enitre division you know, with at least nine infantry battalions, royal artillary , armoured recconaisanse, royal signals etc within it. Personally I'd do the 2nd South Staffordshire regiment of the 1st Airborne Division as they are the finest Infantry battalion in the world (most vcs won in a single battle in the entirety of the war... i rest my case ) but if you want something ubiquitous, I'd suggest the Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light Infantry. The OBLI has units in both airborne divisions and not only took Pegasus Bridge and participated in Operation Varsity but were also the HQ security unit at Arnhem. Doing OBLI (or an air landing unit otherwise) neatly skirts the fact that its considered offensive by the UKs parachute regiment to wear their wings if you have not completed 'P Company' - airlanding units wore all the same gear as paratroopers and trained as highly, they just were not jump qualified. Airlanding units were also better equipped and provided a much weightier strength on the battlefield. (oh and you've spelt 'Airborne' wrong in your sig btw. Airbourne with a 'u' are an Australian rock band.)
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