Russian
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Magician
Posts: 923
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Post by Russian on Dec 10, 2006 0:18:07 GMT -5
Alright, this has interested me for sometime, and I havn't been able to find conclusive evidence for the reasoning behind it. Perhaps someone here could help me.
Now, the airborne elements all wore US flags on their right sleeve. We all know this. My question is, why? Or, more poiniently, why did other units not?
Logically, I had come to the conclusion it was for identification purposes. But, this troubled me. Logically, if a US paratrooper could identify another because of the patch, and not fire on him, couldnt an enemy unit likewise identify said paratrooper by the flag?
So, identification is still a possibility, though it seems a boneheaded one, due to the personal risk exhibited to the paratroopers.
The next reason would be that it represents a badge of honor, that the troops would feel proud to carry the flag of their country on their arm. But, then why not make it regulation for all troops, including infantry, armour, etc.?
So, if anyone has insights into this, please, shed some light here! Thanks!
Russian
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Dec 10, 2006 0:33:25 GMT -5
They had them for a few reasons actually.
Yes they were for identification purposes,not paratroop to paratroop recognition, but paratroop to leg infantry/armour recognition. Most GI's had NO idea what a paratrooper looked like, and the high collared M42's look a bit like German tunics from a distance. The big 'ol flag help prevent fratricide incidents.
They also were helpful for communicating the fact that you were an American to the local poulation. It's awful hard to explain where you're from when you don't speak the language!
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Post by Go4Broke on Dec 10, 2006 1:13:27 GMT -5
Infantry did wear them, just not in Normandy. During Operation Dragoon the 3rd, 36th, and 45th all wore US flag armbands.
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Post by themango on Dec 10, 2006 1:21:06 GMT -5
Yeah flags were worn by Infantry in Africa and Italy. I want to say I have seen some photos of infantry wearing them during the invasion of Normandy. I will have to check around to see if I can find the photos. But it was not an exclusive airborne insignia. I have read that a lot of 101st did not wear the flags but was more common among the 82nd. I have also seem photos of many airborne without the flags on their sleeves. Were the flag brassards issued by Normandy?
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Russian
Corporal
Magician
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Post by Russian on Dec 10, 2006 2:59:11 GMT -5
The 45th wore them? What style, the slip on, the sewn on? I reenact the 45th, and have never seen that! Hah, you learn something everyday!
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Post by spitfire740 on Dec 10, 2006 14:19:19 GMT -5
Yeah, look at my signiture, there is a guy wearing a flag around his arm in one of the pics
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Russian
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Post by Russian on Dec 10, 2006 15:06:12 GMT -5
Hrm....thought that was a medical brassard! lol
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Post by spitfire740 on Dec 10, 2006 15:09:00 GMT -5
At first I thought that too, but then I saw the flag. I didn't think anything of it until now lol. It appears to be tied on.
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Russian
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Post by Russian on Dec 10, 2006 15:15:18 GMT -5
Do you still have the original you used for that?
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Post by Go4Broke on Dec 10, 2006 17:28:06 GMT -5
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Russian
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Post by Russian on Dec 10, 2006 17:39:20 GMT -5
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Post by spitfire740 on Dec 10, 2006 19:18:20 GMT -5
I'm actually wearing a medic brassard in the pic of me. That raises a good question, would a medic wear the American flag, if they already have a medic armband on? I would imagine not, but I thought I'd ask anyways.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 10, 2006 19:52:49 GMT -5
The US flag brassard was first worn for the North African landings. The Vichy French (It was hoped) would not fire on Americans. (Brits probably) but not Americans. Technically the forces of Vichy france were allied with the Axis. The flags were a way to uniquely identify the US troops at a distance. The idea gained momentum for the paratroopers since they knew they'd be behind enemy lines with conventional troops having to link up at random locations. Most of the 82nd had US 48 star flags sewn on their uniforms with some having pinned brassards. Very, very few of the 101st had them at Normandy. Both Divisions used pinned on US flag brassards for the Holland drops (market garden) and the airborne units again used them at the Rhine river jump. In my opinion anything that readily identifys what side you're on is a good think. Friendly fire isn't and as most of you learn from airsoft skirmishes it is very, very common. Even at our close in ranges and fairly small, player numbers the confusion of a tactical environment in a fast paced activity makes unit identification very, very, hard. If reporters played airsoft even once they'd have a better understanding of the frequency of friendly fire incidents.
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Post by Go4Broke on Dec 10, 2006 20:15:20 GMT -5
Yes, both armband types appear to be present, although the brassards seem to be more common. I've noticed with 3rd ID photos of the landing, all the infantry appear to be wearing brassards, while all the SP's have sewn on flags, although with the 45th pictures both types appear to be used by the infantry. As for the medics I've seen medics wearing both or just the redcross. I think it may have been personal choice.
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Post by phantom12321 on Dec 18, 2006 17:18:37 GMT -5
now did most of the normal leg divsions use them? I've seen small 48 star flags included in most patch sets and since my recent attatchment to the 45th ID, I don't know if it is part of the normal uni or not.
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Post by Go4Broke on Dec 20, 2006 6:13:15 GMT -5
I'm not sure I completely understand your question. The 45th only used them in Operation Dragoon, I believe. In other words, they did, but only for a certain short period of time.
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Post by phantom12321 on Dec 20, 2006 14:11:14 GMT -5
I see them on a lot of pictures and I noticed that a lot of reenactors had them, I thought a small 48 star patch was more standard for most Infantry Divisions but, maybe I'm wrong.
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Post by Go4Broke on Dec 21, 2006 2:27:52 GMT -5
No, they were only worn by leg divisions on a few occasions, and was not a "patch" per se, but a sewn on muslin flag, or a brassard (armband). Use original photos from the unit you are portaying for research; reenactors can be wrong too. Here's a good photo research page for the 45th: www.45thdivision.org/gallery.htm
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