click
Sergeant
Company G, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division
Posts: 1,764
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Post by click on Dec 26, 2006 15:13:33 GMT -5
What were these used for? Who used them? Are they the same as the M43 utilities used at the end of the war?
Sorry about all the questions. Just wondering and thinking out my possibilities. ;D
Click
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Post by Go4Broke on Dec 26, 2006 19:19:58 GMT -5
HBT's (Herringbone Twill) were a fatigue uniform that replaced the denim fatigue uniform used before the war. It was meant to be a work uniform, like say if you were digging a trench or working on a vehicle or something, and was meant to be worn over your wool uniform. It was also worn into combat though, you see many pictures of them being worn in Normandy and else where. Research the unit and time period you are going to portray as to wether you should wear HBT's or not. M43's are a totally different uniform set, and was meant to be a combat uniform.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 26, 2006 20:48:38 GMT -5
They were very commonly worn by Rangers as a combat uniform.
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TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
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Post by TommyGunner on Dec 26, 2006 21:13:34 GMT -5
I have seen pics of alot of Army guys in the Pacific wearing HBT sets.
TommyGunner
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Post by Capt. Zak on Dec 27, 2006 7:19:41 GMT -5
As it was stated above, the HBT's were basically a "utillity" uniform. They were also used as gas protection. Some units wore them over their wools during the Normandy invasion, they were also worn alone in warmer weather.
Insignia was rarely, if ever, applied to the jacket. They were most commonly used by Rangers, 4th, 9th, & 30th Infantry Divisions. HOWEVER, most units were issued them and use was pretty common. Mixing wools & HBT's was also very common. Again, resaearch & use photo evidence to back up your impression.
A funny side note, the HBT's were favored in warm weather. However, my Grandfather served in China, Burma, India, & Egypt and was only issued a wool uniform. I can't imagine wool being fun in the desert sun. ;D
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Post by 5thrangerinfantry on Dec 27, 2006 10:42:27 GMT -5
They were very commonly worn by Rangers as a combat uniform. The 2nd started the ETO with them, and I believe the 1st, 3rd and 4th did wear them in Sicily/Italy.
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Post by caffrey on Dec 31, 2006 6:29:52 GMT -5
Everybody was issued fatigue outfits... it was simply another class of uniform, like your ODs (wools) or Khakis (cottons). EVERYBODY was issued them.
In combat, fatigues were sprayed down with anti-gas "sticky" protection, in case of gass attacks.
In the Pacific Theater, soldiers were often issued only fatigues.
Insignia on the HBTs were common in stateside or rear (non-fighting) soldiers. Rarely were patches found on combat outfits. This traditionally goes for fatigues, and wools in many cases.
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Post by caffrey on Dec 31, 2006 6:35:40 GMT -5
The "HBTs" were first developed in 1941. They saw action throughout the entire war! However, there were 3 patterns made, and in 2 different shades at that! They are traditionally cut oversized to fit over your service uniform, which is why they always look baggy alone. It is good to read WW2 manuals on the regulation standards of wearing clothing. It is always good to study original photographs. When in doubt, ask a veteran.
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Post by Capt. Zak on Dec 31, 2006 6:38:38 GMT -5
In the Pacific Theater, soldiers were often issued only fatigues. This statement is not true. My Grandfather served in the CBI and was ONLY issued a wool uniform, his entire regiment wore wool. The reason they bitched was that they were a Quartermaster unit and they could not even get/scroung HBT's My friends dad served in New Guinea and he was only issued a wool uniform. So everyone was NOT issued HBT's. How do I know this? I ASKED HIM. The 29th landed on D-Day in wool as well.
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click
Sergeant
Company G, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division
Posts: 1,764
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Post by click on Dec 31, 2006 11:07:08 GMT -5
When in doubt, ask a veteran. Little short on American vets over here Click
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Post by caffrey on Dec 31, 2006 13:36:09 GMT -5
In the Pacific Theater, soldiers were often issued only fatigues. This statement is not true. My Grandfather served in the CBI and was ONLY issued a wool uniform, his entire regiment wore wool. The reason they bitched was that they were a Quartermaster unit and they could not even get/scroung HBT's My friends dad served in New Guinea and he was only issued a wool uniform. So everyone was NOT issued HBT's. How do I know this? I ASKED HIM. The 29th landed on D-Day in wool as well. This is why I said often. There were always exceptions...
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Post by Capt. Zak on Dec 31, 2006 14:33:17 GMT -5
Everybody was issued fatigue outfits... it was simply another class of uniform, like your ODs (wools) or Khakis (cottons). EVERYBODY was issued them. I was replying to the above comment you made. You said EVERYONE was issued them. That is in fact not true.
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Post by caffrey on Dec 31, 2006 14:49:54 GMT -5
I was referring to stateside training of Army regulars. In combat, whatever you got, was what you got. It was to 5thrangerinfantry's belief of only certain divisions being issued fatigues as a field suppliment, as like assault gear, but in fact it was intended for overall usage.
It goes to show how the Army falls behind in development and getting supplies where they need to be, and stands true today. But when you're trying to feed, clothe, and keep busy millions of bodies, it's difficult.
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Post by 5thrangerinfantry on Dec 31, 2006 20:31:33 GMT -5
My post was about combat usage only. The 5th Rangers wore them for training stateside and in England at the Braunton Assualt Training Site. They did wear them for combat, but yes they were issued fatigues. The 1st Rangers - and the entire 1st ID - did not wear them for combat in N. Africa.
Fatigues were intended for overall usage....my post only pointed out that only certain Ranger Bn's had them for combat at certain times. One could not wear them while representing the 1st Rangers in N. Africa, one could wear them for a Sicily/Italy event. They could be worn for a 2nd Ranger Normandy impression/event, but not for a 5th Ranger during the same time frame. The 2nd did start wearing the OD's (wools) for combat around the same time as they started wearing the ranger scrolls and jump boots - I believe it was around September or October of '44, so either during or just after the combat on the Brittany Penninsula.
We are in constant contact with both the Rangers of WW2 Association and the Sons & Daughters of WW2 Rangers Association. Our unit has a forum of our own and the S&D has its own section for sharing information with us.....
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Doom
Private
Deutsche Afrika Korp: Arizona-Abteilung
Posts: 297
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Post by Doom on Jan 1, 2007 16:13:52 GMT -5
So Zak...Do you do you have any tan jump smocks in stock? Size II or III? I cannot use Microsoft Word (which seems to open automatically from your store) to email you as your response would be sent to my wife's email account. How can I get details/pictures on the tan smocks? Thanks
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Post by Capt. Zak on Jan 1, 2007 19:20:30 GMT -5
I have a bunch of stuff on it's way but shipping this time of year is murder. I do not have a definite arrival date as of yet. I am hoping within the next 2 weeks.
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Doom
Private
Deutsche Afrika Korp: Arizona-Abteilung
Posts: 297
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Post by Doom on Jan 1, 2007 19:24:30 GMT -5
Well I will keep on the lookout for them. I don't see many tan smocks around and definately want one if they show up.
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