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Post by 5thrangerbat on Mar 19, 2011 22:29:45 GMT -5
What was the typical ammo load Thompson SMG gunner carried? I know they had the bags but most did not receive them and usually have the cells. (I have both the bag and cell) So how many magazines did they carry if allowed? How many rnds were usually expended in combat or a firefight?
I'm trying to get a rough sense on how they did it so i can try to get as close to imitating the real thing. I'm getting mids soon and I want to load them up to 20-30 rds.
Thanks,
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Post by freelancer on Mar 20, 2011 17:23:33 GMT -5
here is a packing list I found somewhere (I think it was on this forum I have found so much info on WWII that I cant remember where I found everything) scroll down to ammo and you will see what the 508th PIR carried
RESTRICTED HEADQUARTERS 508TH PARACHUTE INFANTRY APO 230, U.S. ARMY TJBS/WHN/vjm 25 August 1944 ANNEX NUMBER 1 TO TRAINING MEMORANDUM NO. 19, 1944 PREPARATION FOR A COMBAT MISSION
UNIFORM AND INDIVIDUAL EQUIPMENT FOR FUTURE OPERATIONS
1. EQUIPMENT CARRIED BY ALL PERSONNEL. The following items of clothing and equipment are carried by all personnel.
Boots, pr., Parachutists 1 Helmet, Prcht., w/ camouflage net attached 1 Tags, identification, w/tape 2 Cotton or woolen underwear, pr., (depending on climate) 1 Socks, light wool, pair 1 Suit, combat, complete 1 Shoulder insignia, Division, (left shoulder) 1 American Flag, (Right Shoulder) 1 Notebook and 2 pencils (chest pocket) 1 Grenades, hand, fragmentation (lower jacket pockets) 2 *Grenades, Gammon (carried in field bag) 1 *A/T Mine, M1 (carried in field bag) 1 Grenade, Smoke (as directed by higher hq.) 1 Socks, pr., extra (left hip pocket) 1 Handkerchiefs (right hip pocket) 3 Cleaning patches (right leg pocket) 10 Spoon, M1937 (right leg pocket) 1 Boxes, “K” rations, as prescribed (leg pockets) Toilet paper Rifle or pistol belt (rifle belt for those armed with rifle; Pistol belt for all others) 1 Parachute, complete 1 Tablets, Halazone 1 bottle Capsules, Motion Sickness Preventative 4 *Tablets, Sulfadiosine 6 Life Preserver (as prescribed by higher Hq) 1 Entrenching Tool 1 Toilet Kit (or articles) Bag, canvas, field 1 Weapon, as issued 1 Packet, 1st Aid, Prcht, M-24 1 **Suspenders, coat M1936, pr. 1 ** Canteen w/cup and cover 1 **1st Aid pouch, w/packet 1 Knife, M1 1 Rope, prcht., 30’x5/8” (as prescribed) 1 Gas Mask w/container, complete (when prescribed by higher hq.) 1 Prophylaxis, venereal, mechanical 6 Prophylaxis, venereal, chemical 2
*Carried in combat only **Attached to belt
2. AMMUNITION FOR INDIVIDUAL WEAPONS. Following are the standard ammunition loads for individual weapons.
a. Rifle, M1. - All personnel armed with the rifle will carry one 8 round clip of ammunition in 10 pouches on the rifle belt. (Total 80 rounds) Ten 8 round clips of rifle ammunition will be carried by each rifleman in addition. One clip of 7 rounds in Rifle, US M1 (Total 167 rounds). b. Carbine, M1A1. – All personnel armed with the Carbine M1A1 will carry four carbine ammunition pouches on the pistol belt, each containing two 15 round magazines of carbine ammunition. One 15 round magazine will be carried in the Carbine M1A1. (Total 135 rounds). c. Thompson Submachine Gun.-All personnel armed with the TSMG will carry fourteen 20 round magazines (one containing 10 rounds) carried in bag, carrying, TSMG ammunition (Total 270 rounds). d. Pistol.- Three clips, 7 rounds each. (Total 21 rounds).
3. MANNER OF CARRYING WEAPONS AND EQUIPMENT. a. Weapons.- Rifles, Submachine Guns, and Carbines, with muzzles padded, will be carried by the individual, and for jumping will be worn under the reserve chute secured by chest strap, and belly band. Pistols will be carried in holster on pistol belts. Holster flaps will be secured with string prior to jumping.
b. Gas Masks.- Gas Masks, container, complete, will be carried during the parachute descent only when prescribed by higher headquarters. When carried they will be slung on the left hip by shortening the shoulder strap or waist belt and attaching it around the waist and secured to the leg with the other strap and a tent rope. c. Lensatic Compass.- Carried on pistol or rifle belt. d. Watch Compass.- Carried in watch pocket secured to belt loop with string. e. Binoculars, M3 w/case.- Carried on belt or slung over shoulder. f. Entrenching tools.- Carried on belt; tied to leg prior to jump. g. Wire Cutters.- Carried on belt. h. Dispatch Case.- Carried slung over shoulder. i. Submachine Gun Ammunition Cases.- Slung over shoulder. j. Bayonet w/scabbard.- Carried on belt.
k. Machetes w/scabbard.- Carried only when so ordered by CO. Will be carried on belt. l. Whistle.- Carried in left chest pocket with end of chain attached to the shoulder loop of combat suit. m. Flashlight.- Carried in left pocket. n. Tool Equipment TE33.- Carried on belt. o. Radio Set, SCR 536.- Carried under left arm in sling over right shoulder, one extra set batteries in leg pocket. Special sling or one sling, carrying MG and ammunition, may be used for this purpose. p. Bag, canvas, field.- Will be carried slung under reserve chute, shoulder straps though reserve chute “D” rings and hooked to “D” rings on bottom of bag. q. Mine A/T M1.- When carried, will be placed in the field bag. r. Knife, M1.- Worn strapped to leg. s. Utility ammunition bag.- Buckled over the belt on the right side. t. Folding Splint Set.- (Aid Men) Worn under reserve and secured by tent rope. u. The following additional items of equipment will be carried by personnel. They will be carried in the field bag or leg pockets unless otherwise noted:
LMG Spare Parts (Gunner, LMG) *BA 43’s (SCR284 Batteries) Small Blackout Tent (ea. Oprns. Sgt) *Signal Smoke (under reserve chute) *Signal Projectors & Flares Map Case (Bn Hq Draftsman) *Flag Sets less Staffs (under reserve chute) *Converters Delco Lamp (ea. 1st Sgt & Bn. Msg. *SE11’s (Signal Lamps) Center Chief) *Friction Tape *Message Books *Sound Powered Telephones *BA 37’s & 38’s (SCR536 batteries)
*Carried by Communications Personnel
7. DISTRIBUTION OF ARMS AND EQUIPMENT. Arms and equipment to be carried by the various members of the regiment will be as prescribed in the T/E, as modified from time to time by this headquarters.
8. BLANKET ROLLS. Blanket rolls will be prepared at home station and marked with appropriate individual and unit identification. For convenience of shipment in subsequent follow-up, individual rolls will be packed in barracks bags, two to a bag. Each roll will contain:
1- Sleeping bag 1- Pole, Tent 1- Blanket, WOD 5- Pins, Tent 1- Shelter Half 2- Undershirts 1- Jacket, field 2- Drawers 2- Pair socks, light wool 2- Towels 2- Handkerchiefs 1- Raincoat 1- Pair boots, parachutists 1- Mess Kit, complete 1- Shirt, Wool OD 1- Trousers, Wool OD
9. OFFICERS BEDDING ROLLS. Officers bedding rolls will be assembled at home station and marked with appropriate individual and unit identification. Rolls will not exceed 18 inches in diameter.
1- Sleeping Bag 1- Blanket, WOD 2- Shelter Halves 2- Poles, Tent 10- Pins, Shelter Half 3- Drawers 3- Undershirts 4- Handkerchiefs 3- Pair Socks 3- Towels, Bath 1- Jacket, Field 1- Raincoat Additional Toilet Articles 1- Uniform, Field (Wool Shirt & Trousers)
10. INSIGNIAS. All personnel will wear appropriate insignia or chevrons of rank, in accordance with regulations, and on all types of uniform. Unit CO’s combat identification will be worn as prescribed in General Orders No. 59, Headquarters ETOUSA. Helmets will be marked as prescribed in Circular No. 41, Headquarters FUSA, 27 December 1943, except that the Division Insignia authorized by Paragraph 3, Section I, to be painted on helmets is not authorized for this Division.
11. LEATHER FIELD JACKETS. Will not be taken into the field by officers.
By order of Colonel Lindquist:
WILLIAM H. NATION Captain, Infantry Adjutant
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Post by volkssturm on Mar 20, 2011 18:22:38 GMT -5
Sounds like they didn't use the magazine pouch, instead using the ammo bag. Interesting. And why only half fill one mag?
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Post by freelancer on Mar 20, 2011 20:22:36 GMT -5
Sounds like they didn't use the magazine pouch, instead using the ammo bag. Interesting. And why only half fill one mag? the reason for half filling one mag is they were only issued so many rounds initially.
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Post by gunner on Mar 23, 2011 21:28:43 GMT -5
as far as how much was shot during a firefight, there's no set number!! depends on how long of a firefight!! hell, i've shot five rounds before, then I've shot a whole crap load!!! just don't spray and pray, try to make consice shots!
I saw or read somewhere, lately that the thompson was origionally shipped with five mags and two drums. I want to say that that was also the primary load of the USMC during the 20's when they were protecting u.s. mail on trains.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 30, 2011 21:43:01 GMT -5
Prescribed loads were simply that. In prep for a mission or campaign every GI horded and scrounged as much extra ammo as they could carry. Ammo however is heavy so before you get stupid about it, figure out what a realistic amount of extra weight would reasonable to lug around and act accordingly. For authenticity lug around a brick for every 100 rounds or so.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Mar 30, 2011 21:55:39 GMT -5
For airsoft estimate 3 bb's to every real bullet and hope for the best. So if a realistic loadout would be 100 rounds then you should be good to go with 3 100 round midcaps. Have a resupply area on field where you can reload during missions. The packing list above says 270 rounds..triple that for airsoft. Why? because bb's are not anywhere near as accurate as a bullet is. Rolling up with 20-30 rounds may seem like a cool idea but 100 round mags are more reasonable for airsoft battles and you will be changing mags pretty quick.
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