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Post by volkssturm on Aug 15, 2012 14:00:37 GMT -5
Kind of a rambling, extended rant website here, taking the War Department/Department of Defense to task for not providing the troops with better weapons. www.combatreform.org/lightmachineguns.htmStarts off with the BAR, which, while in many respects a good weapon, was not an adequate substitute for a true light machinegun. Asks a question I've often asked. The Belgians, Poles, Swedes and even the FBI had versions of the BAR with a pistol grip. But the US Army never figured out that a pistol grip on the BAR would improve operator efficiency. And the Swedes even figured out a quick change barrel. He goes on to talk about the Johnson Rifle and LMG and other related things. Interesting read if you've got some time to kill. On a related note, the USMC is acquiring the M27 IAR (Infantry Automatic Rifle) to replace/supplement SAWs. Basically an HK 416 with a heavier barrel. When I first read about that I immediately thought "It's a junior BAR". Like the BAR, it falls in that weird spot between the rifles and the sustained fire weapons. It has been suggested that the Marines might be pulling an end run around Ordnance. They can't replace the M16/M4 outright, but maybe someday Ordnance will wake up and realize that the Marines gave everybody an M27 a few at a time.
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Post by Schmozilla on Aug 15, 2012 15:44:10 GMT -5
Wow it seems the pistol grip was a lot better, like the polish version that had it.
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Post by volkssturm on Aug 15, 2012 17:09:22 GMT -5
That was something I noticed in my younger days. In ROTC we used M1's and M14's, then had M16's at summer camp and, of course, when I was in the Big Green Machine we had M16A1's. I also fired small bore competition with Winchester Model 52's and Savage 40X's (traditional wood stocks). On the target range, the old traditional stock works just fine. But for running around the woods or the pop up target range the pistol grip on the M16 gave you a lot better control for fast shots and fast second shots.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 16, 2012 14:31:51 GMT -5
While the m14 and m1 definitely felt more like a rifle to me the reality was the m16 made way way more sense ojce we got over the idea we were carrying "Mattey Matel toy weapons". They were short, light and allowed us to carry far more ammo. They had no recoil and the pistol grip and elevated site though weird at the time, worked well and has proven effective. There is a reason the M16 series has been the longest serving main battle weapon in history. The 30 ought six was a powerful powerful round and the BAR is still just plain badass but I still wouldnt want to have to lug it around and the ammo to support it.
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Post by volkssturm on Aug 16, 2012 15:19:17 GMT -5
The .30-06 is an excellent cartridge, but it was really (imho) unnecessary. They'd have done just as well to adopt the 7mm Mauser and save the cost of development. I think the reason we got it was because Army Ordnance at the time wouldn't ever consider adopting a "foreign" weapon or cartridge, so they tweaked the 98 Mauser and called it the Springfield, and tweaked the 7.92mm Mauser and made the .30-06. It's arguable whether the Springfield is actually any better than the 98, and the .30-06 is slightly more powerful than the 7.92, but it's really meaningless, since the .30-06 is way more powerful than the ordinary soldier needs.
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Post by jbagel21 on Aug 16, 2012 16:51:04 GMT -5
As a combat veteran, I can say from personal experience that the 5.56 round is very capable and quite deadly as is. Having a heavier round fired by your MG's is a must, but the rifleman needs to be as light as possible while carrying the maximum amount of ammo he can. Unfortunately, a lot of the flak directed as certain rounds/weapons is usually written by people who have never left the range, or were trying to blame the round/weapon for their inability to hit the target. COL Johnson knew this, and his designs show he listened to the man on the ground... not the beauracrats. A fact that often gets overlooked, COL Johnson was actually part of the design team for the AR-15/M-16 as well, although he believed it should have been chambered in 5.7mm.
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Seff
Private
.30-06 - Turning Cover into Concealment since 1906
Posts: 344
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Post by Seff on Aug 29, 2012 14:23:32 GMT -5
If the US army hadn't had a hardon for the 30.06 and later 7.62, then the .276 pedersen would have been adopted, making the M1 more versatile, and in turn making the M14 (since it's a direct descendant) lighter and easier to manage, quite possibly making it last longer in service, and maybe even meaning that the M16 wouldn't have been so small a caliber, meaning that they wouldn't be looking for a replacement caliber for it now. The 5.56 has been improved several times to try to increase the lethality, especially through concealment and at long distances.
The M16 worked fine for me in A-stan, but then there wasn't much direct fighting. Had a jam on the range due to dirty ammo, my fault.
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stuka
Sergeant
The one and only
Posts: 1,205
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Post by stuka on Aug 29, 2012 16:29:54 GMT -5
I say we just say screw the geneva convention and use whatever works best, besides in war when do the bad guys follow the rules?
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Post by volkssturm on Aug 30, 2012 17:19:28 GMT -5
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Post by tinydata on Sept 2, 2012 14:32:09 GMT -5
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Post by Schmozilla on Sept 2, 2012 17:08:30 GMT -5
I'm not going to be against anything but I think that the government is getting stupider and stupider with all these multiple billion dollar projects that never do anything, or cause more problems.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Sept 2, 2012 18:26:01 GMT -5
I'm not going to be against anything but I think that the government is getting stupider and stupider with all these multiple billion dollar projects that never do anything, or cause more problems. I found out the US Military, Canadian Military, English Military, and a few others are developing Biodegradable Bullets, They are supposed to be 75% Biodegrable (I bet they got this idea because they play airsoft), but they are still lead coated. Bullets they are shooting at Taliban. Why the hell do we care if they are degradable... Besides, lead isn't that bad is it? ;D
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