What German Camo?

[2nd Bat]

Not being a German authority (at all) and so much to know. My question is, for a regular German infantry unit what camo pattern tunic or Zeltbahn would be the most likely pattern worn on the Western Front? Also would helmet camo covers be worn by German infantry (Non SS or Fallsimjager? ). If no camo covers were used what choices do I have for helmet appearance (color shades and markings?). I suspect like all such things there are lots and lots of opinions here. With the research I have done there is just so many variations it seems. Stumpfmuster alone seems to be all over the map. (Marsh, Soft edge, Splinter Fall...my head hurts) Is the DOT and OAK camo strictly an SS deal? Were there different helmet shades worn by the SS than the Heer soldiers. Yikes!

[knights52]

Dot 44 is strictly SS, as is any Oak or Palm variant. Heer units wearing SS camo would be strictly punished.

[knights52]

Tan and Water was fairly common for Heer, jackets and helmet covers.

[2nd Bat]

Tan and water? That is a variant of the Splinter pattern yes? How commonly did the German Infantry wear the Zeltbahns over their uniforms like a poncho. The look is a cool one in my opinion. To create a relatively affordable "at a glance" uniform look I am thinking Zeltbahns, cheap helmets with splinter pattern covers and thrift shop grey pants. I know that is no doubt mking people cringe but I am trying to figure out how I can come up with something fairly affordable and not horrible for 12 OPFOR guys.

[knights52]

Using the zelts as ponchos was pretty common, I've seen plenty of original pics of it. And I'm sure that would be fine with most of us

[LϟϟAH1944]

No tan and water, wear splinter for heer! tan and water is very overused. For ss, either Oak A or B, any oak overprint, any planetree(hard to find), dot 44, iti camo, and palm.

[2nd Bat]

I am confused I thought Tan & Water was a Splinter Pattern. Other splinter patterns seem to be Splinter 44, Luffwaffe Splinter (I am assuming for FJ?) Marsh and Splinter Tropical. Yikes! they all seem very similar but for a non exotic German Infantry look what is the best choice? I think if these were mixed in with folks who had full on impressions the overall "look" would be decent "quick glance" kind of deals. in airsoft the typical view of your opponent is just that...a quick fleeting glance.

If the helmets aren't covered what color should they be for Wermacht Infantry? Western Europe 43 on? It seems from pictures that a lot of German used chicken wire, and textured over sprays in camo patterns. would that be good, bad, wrong or so rare as to not bother? I can't afford to buy a dozen proper tunics and trousers in assorted sizes to issue out. But I think I could do Zelt ponchos, covered helmets and maybe kraut spats.

There is a large local club wanting now to do a WW2 themed event with my support this Spring but they want US vs Bad Guys. At present I can only do good guys.

[knights52]

Tan and water is a variant of splinter, any splinter will work, it's just the first that came to mind. Any I'm not to sure about helmet color, I'm an SS kind of guy. I'll do some digging though, and see what I can find.

[2nd Bat]

So helmet covers with zeltbahns fashioned as ponchos in a splinter pattern would be a German, leg Infantry deal? From a game producers perspective I am envisioning a way to either outfit a decent numbet of OPFOR folks or come up with a quick and fairly easy way to transfer a squad of US outfitted folks into the enemy. During mission phases. The one size fits all, plop over what you got approach has appeal to me. When supported by staff in excellent impressions who would facilitate these mission phases I would think this could be reasonable. Not the ideal of course but workable. In early WW2 events neither side was especially outstanding with the authenticity of their looks but I will never forget the thrill of encountering the enemy and immediately being able to identify that they were on the other side. It felt like the war movies I watched as a kid or episodes of COMBAT (my favorite show growing up) but where i'm in the movie. Prior to that paintball games or airsoft we wore arm bands or played camo vs plain OD or woodland vs desert and these were the differntiators. Completely different helmets or hat shapes, german weapons and guys speaking differently in the distance was so cool. I want to once again capture that and be able to supply an interested group with the means to simply step in and experience that. Naturally i will look for bargains on proper set ups as well.

I have had local airsoft groups approach me about supporting them for period events. I can currently do vietnam but can only do the US side for WW2.

Splinter pattern ponchos, camo helmet covers and some german field caps sounds like a good start.

[volkssturm]

Just going to throw this out for what it's worth (not much), but it would be a fairly cheap way to get a squad into an identifiable enemy uniform. Hassayampa Surplus is advertising an "East German dress shirt". Similar design to the WWII tunic except for being open collar. Way wrong for a serious impression, but with the addition of some cloth on cardboard shoulder boards and collar tabs and some paint on the buttons they might work for B-Movie Germans. The color isn't right and they're cotton-polyester so they might not take dye. But the price is reasonable.

www.shop.hassayampasurplus.com/product.sc?productId=399&categoryId=11

[2nd Bat]

Hard to tell what the shade is and they only seem to have them in mediums and smalls with no indication what that means. Certainly cheap enough? Covered by a zelt and some cosmetic creativity...? The beauty of the zelt approach in my mind is the one size fits all simplicity but the Zelts have to go over something.

[shiftsup]

Zelts aren't exactly "fun" to run around in. They are more of a poncho than a "combat" item. I can imagine several of the dish buttons and grommets getting torn off and lost during a game.

Not sure what you are willing to spend but buying 10 Splinter Smocks and 10 Splinter Helmet Covers from ahagreat.com will set you back about $800 USD including shipping.

ahagreat.com wehrmacht spinter smock

ahagreat.com wehrmacht splinter helmet cover.

Or don't bother with helmets and covers at all and get grey caps.

ahagreat.com grey m43 caps

These items are decent enough and fall into the Heer category. Splinter smocks are commonly associated with the Grossdeutchland Division (strictly Ostfront combatatants) namely because they got the new goods first. But 700 and 300 series Heer Infantry Divisions received smocks too.

[2nd Bat]

I just bid an ahagreat splinter camo pull over that was listed on ebay. On ebay they go by a different name. I probably won't get it as it was cheaper then on their web site and shipping to the US is quoted at $5.00. if I do get it and could get more at the 43.00 it was at I'd buy a bunch of them. i also just bought eight plastic costume german helmets which should be passable for my purposes with covers on them. My goal is to have a dozen OPFOR Costumes for $1000.00 spent. With weapons I'm expecting to be in this unit $3,ooo.oo or so. Obviously to make this work events are going to have to ramp up. Historically we have just never been able to put on bigger events without quite a few individual set ups and convincing props.

[shiftsup]

Yes youchunhe or somethin' somethin' is ahagreat.

Ask them if they'll give you around 20% off of list price if you by 10-12 smocks and 10-12 covers.

Wouldn't hurt.

[2nd Bat]

They give a discount on shipping which adds up. I did in fact get the Youchunehe tunic and for under $50.00 delivered which I think is pretty good. They seem to have a good price on HBT camo and shirts and a thought there is to mix and match the camo with grey. Perhaps some pf those jackets Volks showed. Just want my US players to know at a glance who the bad guys are. We need cheap but effective Kar 98s and the Inexpensive MG34 to come out.

[volkssturm]

What's your time frame on getting this together? I've got some East German belts here I'd be happy to get rid of. They're gray webbing, but could be dyed or painted black.

[LϟϟAH1944]

don't dye them! just use em as tropical belts.

[2nd Bat]

found a few more items fairly cheap that should work. A local Suplus store had a dot pattern repo smock made by Strum clearance priced and some over whites which are post war but should provide a decent "at a glance" look. They also had some Austrian Two sided Zelts. On the one side was the Austrian dot pattern, (better than flectarn but not quite right) and on the reverse side what looks to like the marsh and tan splinter pattern. They were $49.00 each and I don't know if that represents a good deal or not? Obviously no shipping costs! from looking around that seems like a decent deal.

[LϟϟAH1944]

dot pattern smocks?

[knights52]

Remember, dot is exclusively SS

[2nd Bat]

For my OPFOR look in the ideal the outfits would all reflect one unit and have a decent level of authentic uniformity but just as my US stuff is a mix of leg infantry, tankers and airborne I suspect by the time I finish getting together an assortment of costumes for the Germans there will probably be a mix of Heer, SS and Fallsimjager stuff. This SS pull over (which is why I called it a smock) appears very faded compared to the fairly bold greens I have typically seen on SS stuff. One of the color shades is almost a pink. Very strange. Any thoughts on what it might represent? It has a laced throat and tie sinched waist. The material is a heavy poplin.

[LϟϟAH1944]

so that's not erbsentarn like you said. its probably eichtarn a or b

[2nd Bat]

I did some further research (and sent Issah a photo). It is not dot but a light Oak pattern that has faded quite a bit. There is a vendor on Ebay that sells assorted camo patterned fabric including several Geman patterns but the fabric is quite expensive. $29.00 a yard! Really not much cheaper then buying finished smocks or zelt bahns. Might make sense for fashioning pseudo helmet covers. At Jump to Destiny the German camp combined their Zelt Bahns and created a number of pretty cool looking tents. Similar larger tents can be made using US Shelter halves but you seldom see these arranged.

[2nd Bat]

The Splinter smock from AHAGREAT just arrived and for the money I am quite impressed. It is white on the inside and quite well made. Nicer then I was expecting for the money and the item arrived way quicker then I thought it would. An assortment of these smocks with splinter helmet covers for my cheezy helmets will work for my purposes. Often at events I put on I do a series of missions with one side dramatically outnumbeing the other. In my mind this is more realistic from a tactical perspective because close in combat is seldom a fair fight in reality. Also I dislike stalemate type engagements and that is what usually happens with one to one battles. The challenge with this of course is that it's nice to switch around and be with the superior numbers and the outnumbered team.

With zelt bahn ponchos, pull over smocks and "proper" headgear I would be able to quickly swap out the look for a small segment of the participants and it would remedy the challenge of never seeming to have enough "Bad guys". When visually supported by staff members thoroughly outfitted in German kit the look should achieve what I seek.

Theses smock with the helmets, a black thick belt and some thrift shop grey wool trousers look pretty good at first glance.