What's safe for FPS

[2nd Bat]

years ago there was some science around safety and wound production for airsoft projectiles. It was determined that anything above 1 jouelle in power will break skn and one jouelle is roughly 300 FPS with .20 gram. This is the reason 1 jouelle remains the FPS restriction in many countries (For instances Japan). With BBs especially less then .25 the inertia drops off quickly so most US major events settled on 378 FPS with .20 gram and 550 FPS for bolt action rifles with a minimum engagement range. This FPS has crept up to 400 FPS for most rifles with the proliferation of more powerful Chinese AEGs. with full face masks I have frankly little concern with reasonable FPS standards but have seen lots of nasty face wounds and lots and lots of chipped teeth which gets expensive and ugly.

what adds to the confusion is different weights and different size Bbs.

One of the challenges with 8mm heavy BBs is doing a jouelles conversion to insure the performance is on parr with acceptable safety standards. Obviously a 43 gram BB at 300 FPS is more destructive then a .20 gram BB at the same FPS. I am fine with 400 FPS equivalent for a .20 gram BB but anything above that gets to be pretty dicey. the inconsistency of shots from gas guns frankly is another concern although traditionally not an issue in winter for the most part. i hate hassling with Chronos at airsoft events and usually don't feel its necessary. (small events, close knit, responsible groups) but with this discussion about assorted exotic gasses wonder if it might not be a bad idea. What do you think is a safe FPS for a .34 or .43 gram BB? For that matter what do most people is appropriate for .20 gram?

[shiftysgarand]

Well remember that a 0.34 or .45 gram 8mm BB has more surface area than a 6mm, so it is harder to puncture skin with. My friend's Echo 1 BAR punctures the side of a coke can at 420 fps w/ 0.2, while my Marushin M1 can't puncture the side when it's shooting 360 fps w/ 0.45g BBs. There will need to be extensive testing to determine the dangerous point with 8mm.

[aj czarkowski]

I don't mean to sound like a jerk man, but I honestly think any 8mm shouldn't shoot more than 350. And no 6mm should shoot more than 400, because I've seen a lot of times when people get shot way too close even when there is supposed to be a minimum engagement distance, and get really hurt. Just because it doesn't puncture skin doesn't mean it's safe

[shiftysgarand]

If there was a limit at 6mm for about 400 fps, that would mean almost all WWII AEGs that I know of would not be allowed to play on the field except for Thompsons and MP40s. And look where we were 5 years ago..

[newcomer]

While a 8mm BB has more surface area, it has double the mass at 0.43g vs 20-25g. It wont puncture skin, but it may smash a tooth or otherwise sting like a MFer.

That being said, the "best" way to go about this may be to just get a few targets and observe the effects.

[CharleyNovember]

400 fps is plenty but as with everything their's always people wanting to push limits. It becomes an arms race.

[aj czarkowski]

The only WWII AEG that I can think of that would be over the limit is the AGM STG44 which averages from 400-420 fps, but just by using a bit heavier bb's can fix that, since it's not too hot. All MP40's, Thompson's, and Garand's are either at or below that limit. Like CharleyNovember said, 400 fps is plenty man. Actually, 350fps should be fine unless your a sniper. Like I said, a lot of times, people can get REALLY hurt because they were shot at close range. I've seen it happen in person man. And it's not even that, even at like 20-30 feet, an airsoft gun shooting higher than say 400, can do some damage. A friend of mine had his tooth shot out and that was even further than that...

For 8mm? My Marushin M1 Carbine shot at 280fps and back then being literally the only one on my team with a rifle other than two guys with M1 Garand AEG conversions, I was able to take out targets at the farthest distance. In fact, 90% of the time the enemy couldn't even reach me with their MP40's and STG44's man. And this is an 8mm M1 Carbine, not Garand, shooting at 280 fps. Shifty, if you have the even longer ranged 8mm M1 Garand, believe me man, 300 fps is plenty. Been there, done that, and with the smaller Carbine. If you had a 6mm, I'd say go for 350 at least, but 8mm at 300 fps will give you a lot of range and accuracy. And I had my friend shoot me with my 8mm Carbine at about 10 yards (30 feet) and honest to God it hurt worse than a paintball welt man. 400 fps with the 8mm Garand? I'm not playing airsoft with that thing, hell no. The MP40's and Thompson's don't even shoot that hot, and they're 6mm! Believe me man, if your 8mm Garand is in good working order, 300 fps is perfect and your going to be very effective with it. 350 should be your absolute max, and 400 fps with an 8mm is just plain dangerous.

[2nd Bat]

Guys. It's simple physics here. It's not the FPS its the jouelles of power and as shifty said to a small degree the surface mass that causes the pain. If a gun produces FPS of 400 plus and you put heavier BBs in it to reduce the FPS it won't reduce the pain factor, in fact it will probably worsen it as the heavier BB will maintain its inertia longer. If a gun shoots over 400 FPS and that is the limit then nothing short of a weaker spring is going to get that gun into compliance. The reason many fields do not allow 8mm is because there isn't ready information (that I am aware of) that adequately compare them. To further confuse things with long arreled gas guns like the Garand, heavier BBs frequently increase the FPS. My Marushin Garand shot the .45 gram harder then the .34. None of this particularly concerns me at a Winter game with more clothing and I wear a mesh mask.

[shiftysgarand]

Yes, if I was playing in a summer game I would NOT play with my Garand (not with green gas and certainly not with Guarder Power Up (don't want 8mm holes in people)) . In winter it'd be fine I think with the reduced vapor pressure to start with and increased cooldown.

[2nd Bat]

I have a STG 44 and its the only airsoft gun that I have owned that shot over 400 FPS and could fire full auto. I replaced the spring it came with and it now shoots .20 gram BBs at 368 FPS which in my book is at the limits of reasonable for a full auto weapon. Its range is perhaps off by 5 or six feet so little is lost in terms of effectiveness while much is gained from a safety perspective. The only other guns I have that are over 400 FPS (just over) are bolt actions and my ICS Garand at 415 FPS. Since I have put literally 20,000 rounds through the ICS it is probably now below 400 which is fine. My ECHO 1 BAR shoots at 392 which I think is a little hot for a full auto.

I started airsoft when AEGs all shot at or near 300 FPS, were $350.00 and upgrading to 350 FPS typically cost $150.00 and the guns usually ate their young shortly thereafter!

All AEGs produce a lower FPS with .23 or .25 BBs but they shoot farther and straighter with the heavier Bbs and you definitely feel the hits a bit more. ( It's a physics deal called inertia)