German NCO and kar98?

[worldwardrew]

This might seem like a stupid question, but I don't know alot about German squad regulations; anyway, did all German NCOs carry MP-40s? Because I work at Depot-53 and I have test fired the MP-40 and the kar98, the MP-40 absolutly sucks compared to the kar98, I am the squad leader for my group of guys so to stay historically accurate how plausible would it be to have a unterofficer carry a kar98?

[CPL. Mills 2nd Rangers]

yea, you can carry a K98 if you want to. it would be accurate.

[Capt. Zak]

A lot of NCO's carried the K98. That was the most common gun for the GErmans throughout the war.

[Sascha Gusdorf]

In all honesty, it was more common for the squad leader to carry the fully automatic firearm, like the MP40, the PPSh41 (on the Eastern Front), and the Stg44; if all you have is the Kar-98, don't waist one single minute of your time wondering about the accuracy of this situation; it's perfectly okay to carry a bolt-action rifle as a squad leader.
The SS, especially the LAH division, the Das Reich division, and the Hitler Jugend division, grew so fanatical, that showing off the squad leader's dedication to the "Fuhrer" by running straight into a firefight was considered "brave". In so doing, many of the squad leaders ran into the firefight first, spraying his fully automatic firearm, hoping to inspire his riflemen to do the same.

[worldwardrew]

I don't know why the squad leader had to have a fully automatic weapon. If it were up to me I would give the automatic weapon to someone who would get more use out of it, because when you really think about it if you actually use authentic tactics; the squad leader fires far less than anyone else in the squad. I recall one time one of my guys guns went down so I gave him my thompson and I still lead my squad in a sucessful charge with out a gun in my hands. The squad leaders primary task is making sure everyone is doing what they are suppose to and getting them where they should be so the objective can be secured, not useing his teams to aquire kills for himself. So when you really think about it the automatic weapons should have been distributed to skilled team leaders and not always squad leaders depending on the situation.

[Sascha Gusdorf]

Very true, and a great way of thinking; although, a very American way of thinking. Don't forget; the Germans in WWII had a very different outlook concerning the value of their squad leaders. They were seen as brave and extremly dedicated to the "Fatherland". Keeping the "head-hancho" in the rear, with the "ground pounders" in the front, did very little for the moral, according to the German Soldatan, especially the SS. In fact, the SS, more so than any of the other branches and divisions, were trained to strive for OFFICER status; nothing less. Whatever it took to acquire that status was heavily encouraged.
A typical scenerio in attacking was the following:
1. Squad leader leads squad into attack.
2. His Heavy MG team follows.
3. When the applesauce hits the fan, MG lets loose, providing Squad
Leader with covering fire; thus, allowing he and his
Riflemen to rush into battle.

***Sounds crazy and daring, but that's how they did it.

[2nd Bat]

Even with as few guys as a half dozen a squad leaders primary focus should be to fight his unit. It is virtually impossible to do this effectively if your focus is on your individual weapons capability. That's not to say that there isn't a time to fire and engage the enemy directly or lead aggressively to set an example but this should be the exception rather then the rule.

This becomes even more true at the platoon level and higher. The Kar is appropriate for virtually any level of command. I agree that I'd give the MP 40 to a squad member just as I wouldn't have a squad leader carrying and MG!

[worldwardrew]

sascha said:

Very true, and a great way of thinking; although, a very American way of thinking. Don't forget; the Germans in WWII had a very different outlook concerning the value of their squad leaders. They were seen as brave and extremly dedicated to the "Fatherland". Keeping the "head-hancho" in the rear, with the "ground pounders" in the front, did very little for the moral, according to the German Soldatan, especially the SS. In fact, the SS, more so than any of the other branches and divisions, were trained to strive for OFFICER status; nothing less. Whatever it took to acquire that status was heavily encouraged.
A typical scenerio in attacking was the following:
1. Squad leader leads squad into attack.
2. His Heavy MG team follows.
3. When the applesauce hits the fan, MG lets loose, providing Squad
Leader with covering fire; thus, allowing he and his
Riflemen to rush into battle.

***Sounds crazy and daring, but that's how they did it.

Well Im not saying the squad leader stands in the back, when we charged that defensive possistion I was right up front with the rest of my guys, gun or not I always lead from the front and I never put my men in a place that I wouldn't want to be. So I can understand what you mean about the German values of the squad leader, that occured to me after I thought about it for a second.

[worldwardrew]

I totaly agree with you 2nd Bat

[savoy6]

last time i checked the standard german procedure was to have the SL with the MG in order to direct the fire of the main killing weapon of the squad.the ASL was supposed to lead the riflemen not helping with the MG.

[2nd Bat]

That of course makes great sense. The control and placement of the MG both during offense and defensive postures is paramount to the squads success. In our recent local game we played an assault (on Sunday) where everyone fired semi automatic except the four MGs. We were blessed to have Schmittys two German MGs and his M1919A6 as well as his Jeep mounted Vickers MG.

In so doing the dominence of significance of these weapons in support of the team was extremely apparent. It was so cool to see the entire squad have to provide cover fire while the MG was moved up and then hear or see the MG subsequently provide cover fire for the rest of the squad as they manuevered.

The way Mil Sim is supposed to be. You could also identify the location of the MGs by sound which was also very cool. In addition the defense did all it could to disquise the location of it's forward MG by having it hold fire until absolutely needed.

[Ungar]

The main battle weapon for the german army was the k98.

The squad leader had the Mp40 because his task was not to carry out the battle, but to lead the men.
His SMG was merely a defensive weapon not used as a main battle weaspon.

My grandfather was an artillery man and he had an Austrian manlicher rifle, it was awkward so he asked his CO to be able to switch to a MP40 he picked off of a dead german.
He was allowed to.

Thats a perfect example that the MP40 was not designed to lay down extra firepower in combat but to be used as a defensive measure.

Of course situations were not always self defensive sometimes.

[worldwardrew]

MP-40 was also used to assualt a suppressed enemy, it was not a PDW nothing like that existed in WWII