JG BAR10 Upgrade Recommendations for Kar98 conversions.

[Jerry-ADK]

I just recently purchased a JG BAR10 as a base rifle to make my Dboys Kar98 mod/conversion.  The trigger group doesn't function at all, came broken, but I know that this is one of the first upgrades anyhow.  So besides the trigger sear and base, what other recommendations?  should I use a vacuum piston or the High pressure type, what is the best spring, cause the one it came with is really soft.  Spring guide?  tight bore?  Please give me a list of the parts to get that are inexpensive and work good that you have put in your guns so I dont order the wrong stuff.  I want to get this gun shooting around 480 if possible.  and any other tricks that make this gun shoot better.  I know there are a few posts already about this, but cant find them easily in the forum and dont want to spend forever looking.  As I do this project I plan on photographing the process and video it to make a good instructional film and directions for others to follow.  So please give me your thoughts on what works best and you will get in the credits of course!

Thanks

[ScottCollins]

I'd recommend just getting a stronger spring and piston head along with an upgraded sear set. Should only be another $75 or so and it'll last quite a bit

[Jerry-ADK]

Mar 20, 2014 15:21:46 GMT -5 ScottCollins said:

I'd recommend just getting a stronger spring and piston head along with an upgraded sear set. Should only be another $75 or so and it'll last quite a bit

can you post links to the right ones?

[ScottCollins]

www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Accessories_Springs_Spring_Guides_Rifle_Laylax_PSS10_Spring_for_VSR_10_190SP.htm
www.airsoftatlanta.com/PPS-VSR-10-Cylinder-Head-p/37525.htm
www.evike.com/products/35657/
That should last you for quite a bit

[Jerry-ADK]

Mar 20, 2014 15:39:05 GMT -5 ScottCollins said:

www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Accessories_Springs_Spring_Guides_Rifle_Laylax_PSS10_Spring_for_VSR_10_190SP.htm
www.airsoftatlanta.com/PPS-VSR-10-Cylinder-Head-p/37525.htm
www.evike.com/products/35657/
That should last you for quite a bit

thanks Scott, what does the m170 or m150 refer to with springs, which is stronger? also, is it worth upgrading the piston head and spring guide to a metal one? and what about the Hop?

[insterburger]

Mar 20, 2014 16:00:49 GMT -5 Jerry-ADK said:

Mar 20, 2014 15:39:05 GMT -5 ScottCollins said:

www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Accessories_Springs_Spring_Guides_Rifle_Laylax_PSS10_Spring_for_VSR_10_190SP.htm
www.airsoftatlanta.com/PPS-VSR-10-Cylinder-Head-p/37525.htm
www.evike.com/products/35657/
That should last you for quite a bit

thanks Scott, what does the m170 or m150 refer to with springs, which is stronger?

I believe the M170 is stronger.

[ScottCollins]

If you want dead on accuracy, upgrade the hop up otherwise you really don't need to. I didn't but do get a piston head or else sometimes it will pop out and you have to take the whole thing out. Yeah, the higher the number the higher the strength of the spring

[Jerry-ADK]

Mar 20, 2014 16:07:29 GMT -5 insterburger said:

Mar 20, 2014 16:00:49 GMT -5 Jerry-ADK said:

thanks Scott, what does the m170 or m150 refer to with springs, which is stronger?

I believe the M170 is stronger.

Hi Mark!  
Got my Bar 10 and it came with a broken trigger, go figure. Going to start roughing out the Dboys tomorrow see if I can get the mag well hole cut in the plastic stock.  I was thinking of filling all the hollow cavities in the stock with bondo to give it some strength and weight.  Like filling behind the butt plate and where I can in the fore stock.  

[insterburger]

Sounds great, looking forward to seeing how the build goes, and applying your lessons to my own!

[ScottCollins]

Not to go off topic but why has everyone(including myself) all of a sudden taken an interest in Bar98's?

[Jerry-ADK]

Mar 20, 2014 20:19:53 GMT -5 ScottCollins said:

Not to go off topic but why has everyone(including myself) all of a sudden taken an interest in Bar98's?

For me, it's because of the new Matrix or S&T/AGM MG42.  It's making me want to see more Bolt action German weapons on the field.  We are going to be encouraging our new recruits to get a K98 ASAP.  Hopefully we can send some guys your way.  I think you are asking too little though.  It's a lot of work to do a good one, and you should get compensated for your work and not just break even on materials.  I think a fair price for a custom k98 with a wood stock should be at least 400 especially with some upgrades.  For a plastic stocked one you should get 350.  If you consider your time and effort, it's worth 100 bucks each at least, above your cost for materials.  Not telling you what you should do, cause 250 is a steal for a good K98 if it's anything like your Springfield.   but take it from me, I have mistakenly under bid jobs by thousands of dollars and the result is not good.  You become a slave to your work and it looses the fun that makes you enjoy doing it in the first place.  If you make a good name for yourself with the kind of quality work I saw in your Springfield you will be the guy and your going to get plenty of orders, especially once people see how awesome your work is and you can name your price.  At least until the Chinese catch on and make a good springer available.  Ever think of making a G43?  I'd buy one if you did. 

[ScottCollins]

Well, the thing is, I'm not really doing it for the profit. Any money I make goes toward loaner guns for the group. For every 1 I sell I could make 2 M1 carbine springer conversions and if I sell 2 I can make 1 k98 loaner! And hey, if you want me to try and make a G43, after I'm done with my first Mauser I'd be willing to give it a shot. Pm me if you feel like making any arrangements

[Jerry-ADK]

Mar 21, 2014 21:00:58 GMT -5 ScottCollins said:

Well, the thing is, I'm not really doing it for the profit. Any money I make goes toward loaner guns for the group. For every 1 I sell I could make 2 M1 carbine springer conversions and if I sell 2 I can make 1 k98 loaner! And hey, if you want me to try and make a G43, after I'm done with my first Mauser I'd be willing to give it a shot. Pm me if you feel like making any arrangements

Cool! Will do.  And I'll try and get you some K98 orders.  We have one new guy who expressed interest in having one.

[2nd Bat]

There some additional simple but inexpensive ways to improve the performance of a Bar 10. Lots of tips and suggestions online. A simple but easy upgrade is to snip the nozzle to a somewhat shorter length. It seems counter intuitive but it will give you about 15 more FPS. In addition adding teflon tape to improve the seals will also boost your FPS without putting extra stress on the mechanical parts.

[Jerry-ADK]

Mar 24, 2014 20:33:49 GMT -5 2nd Bat said:

There some additional simple but inexpensive ways to improve the performance of a Bar 10. Lots of tips and suggestions online. A simple but easy upgrade is to snip the nozzle to a somewhat shorter length. It seems counter intuitive but it will give you about 15 more FPS. In addition adding teflon tape to improve the seals will also boost your FPS without putting extra stress on the mechanical parts.

How do you get the tape to stick, glue?

[insterburger]

I believe it screws into the front of the bolt, creating a seal, like it would on a plumbing fixture.

[Ersatzjack]

First off you need an upgradable rifle and not the AGM version. That's the cheap one. Sadly it is not usable because of it's tolerances and that's too bad because it has a narrower barrel coming from the receiver which makes it look and fit better in a stock. Secondly, you don't want to use the angled sear arrangement. That's the original design. For strong springs it just won't hold. If you're lucky, it won't bite you. (It's worse than M-1 thumb when it does). You want the 90-degree sear set-ups. There are several custom triggers out there. Laylax, PDI etc. Evike has a line called Angel Custom that replicates nicely the PDI and Laylax triggers. I'd get this one and it is very economical and copies the PDI version.

www.evike.com/products/42045/

You'll just need a new cylinder unless you want to fill the hole on the original (not recommended) so get this (also an economical copy) and stronger than a PDI cylinder as it has more attachment points.

www.evike.com/products/40435/

You also need this part. It is real steel and you can use it to modify a more realistic bolt handle via welding. You need it for stronger springs.

www.airsoftatlanta.com/Laylax-VSR-10-Bolt-Handle-p/58457.htm

I'd also go with a M170 spring and no stronger. Add a steel spring guide and lose the plastic original.

www.evike.com/products/36688/ (This comes with the ball-bearing guide and 170 spring and is cheap) Throw the piston away. You'll already have the correct one (assuming you ordered what I've recommended) which requires a 90-degree lip.

Finally a new hop-up rubber for the increased velocity.

www.evike.com/products/37842/

This is the cheapest I would bother with. Anything else and you are throwing your money away. You'll be satisfied with these choices. You'll be anywhere from 450-500+ FPS when done. Plus it will be dependable. These are the airsoft parts only and while there are other things you could buy, none are needed like these. Frankly most of the others aren't needed. The other thing you'll need is a real steel bolt handle that looks K-98-ish and some welding skills. I don't know if the handle on the D-Boys is RS but I'd doubt it. The correct bolt handles are scarce but you can get close with a non-K-98 handle like from a Turkish Mauser or one that is post war. Or shop online for one that's a dead ringer. All the parts I recommended are in stock for right now but that is always changing.

The last I knew, the J-Bars came with a brass barrel which is nice quality and negates the need for a barrel upgrade. But if the barrel is aluminum consider getting a 6.05 or 6.03 upgrade. Good luck on the build.

PS-Hot rifles change the game. You'll have to adopt a further minimum fire distance (we use 50-feet) and have fire discipline not to break the rule. Carry a pistol or grenade. Your opponents will not like hot rifles nor you theirs and that's what makes them so game changing and fun.

[2nd Bat]

Ersatzjack,

Great tips one and all. For not a huge amount of money you take all that conversion effort and insure that mechanically everythings works as good as the gun looks and will hold up. The Ersatz guns are famous for long range helmet hits. At 500 FPs and a good hop up the bolt action deficiencies begin to justify themselves with some stand off potency. Of course this is quickly marginalized if the opposition aggressively closes the gap but once engaged, most don't!

[Jerry-ADK]

I did a little gunsmithing today.  I decided to try a new twist on the bolt mod, literally.  I first cut the bolt handle off of the Dboys.  Then I cut the bolt handle of the Bar10 and ground the billet that was left flat and square as I could.  I then drilled and tapped out holes on the bar10  bolt surface and in  the end of the Dboys bolt handle to take a 1/4 in threaded bolt. After that I screwed the bolt into the Dboys end of things and measured and cut off the excess to fit in the hole I tapped out in the Bar 10 bolt ring. I gave it all a generous coating of JB Weld and screwed the two parts together.  With a bit of finish filing it will all go right back in the gun and look correct.  Will it hold up?  I dont know.  That will take some testing.  It seems very strong and with a real 1/4 steel screw JB welded in holding it all together It has promise.  One thing I learned is that the pot metal used on these guns for all the parts is a bad joke.  It must be made of lead and aluminium junk beer cans melted down over and over again and sold back to us in the form airsoft guns.  Lets just hope that the Chinese don't mix their spent uranium fuel rods in there too.  I held my lighter up to some of the metal shavings that came out during drilling and they melted with very little heat.    I can see how replacing as much of the Bar10's moving parts with steel is a good idea.  you can almost dig the pot metal that its made out of with your fingernail.  It will be interesting to see if my mod holds up.  But if it fails, I will get the Lylax steel bolt and weld on a RS swaged ball from a Argentinian Mauser. you can get the whole bolt for about $10 on eBay.  Even getting a real bolt handle and forging and threading the end to screw into the stock JG one might hold good given enough JB weld to keep in in tight.  Check out my Photobucket folder pics in there of the work.  Also I made a gunsmithing vice which firmly holds your work. and can be moved around and clamped to any surface, table or what not.  I cut down a quick clamp to use for holding the fore stock down tight.  this is handy for carving and dremel work.


gun smithing

[ScottCollins]

Hmmm, I decided to go with a VSR-10 instead of the BAR because of the poor quality of both the sears. I'm getting my stuff tomorrow and I'll see if anything is better on mine...

[2nd Bat]

Scott did you replace the seer trigger box on your 1903 yet?

[shiftysgarand]

He did, and his M1911 is no longer a submachine gun.

[efrimann]

I wish someone would see the light, and produce VSR-type steel bolt handles for the KAR98, the Type 38/99 Arisaka, the Springfield M1903 with the rear fitting made from a bit of 1 1/2 steel tube (the correct meassure, I think), dressed up with the proper Mauser style bolt lock in the three different styles. And safety knobs to go.

Even rough casts that we could file and polish ourselves would be nice.

[Jerry-ADK]

Here is some more progress on the receiver.  GUN SMITHING    Next I have to deal with the rear sight.  Im planning on cutting it free from the Dboys, and just grinding it out until it fits on the barrel of the JG.  The bolt end from the Dboys is a part I want to use too.  It just wont look like a Mauser without it.  I figure I will drill out the inside of the part until it fits over the bolt end of the JG then I will either JB weld or tap a screw into it so it will stay on.  Im trying to get this to look cosmetically close as I can to a Mauser while not compromising the function of the JG bolt system.  Seems doable.

[shiftysgarand]

The JG bolt is two pieces, so it's easier than it would be with a one piece design (no welding required)