New to Airsoft, Looking for Impression Help!

[minzen]

Hey all!  I recently found out some friends of mine are into WWII airsoft and am looking to get involved.  Just ordered an AGM MP40 and now I'm working on getting together my first impression.  I'm more looking to get involved for the Airsoft and I'm not too concerned with having absolute historical accuracy, though I'd rather be reasonably accurate.  I also don't want to put too much money in currently as I'm saving up a down payment for a house, but I can spend a few hundred.

 I've done a bit of research and I intend to either go with Heer or Luftwaffe (field division most likely).  I have a few general questions so far and would greatly appreciate any advice.

First, would I have a hard time having a Luftwaffe impression?  I've read a lot of forum posts and it seems some people can be pretty big sticklers over random stuff.  Would seem to be pretty appropriate for late war impression as the Luftwaffe did supplement deplenished Wehrmacht forces.

Second, were tunics make in camo patterns worn?  I know Smocks were worn occasionally over regular uniforms, and a zeltbahn could be wrapped around a soldier.  I've attached some links below with examples of this.  Are these purely made up?  Also, it is my understanding these impressions would only wear Splinter A, or Water and Tan (though water and tan didn't come out til 44).  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

www.epicmilitaria.com/product.php/41/luftwaffe-field-division-splinter-jacket
www.hessenantique.com/SS_M43_Italian_Camo_Jacket_p/2131401.htm

Third, how acceptable is it to substitute away from swastikas?  While I personally think it is silly that the general public will through up such a fuss when someone wears one in a setting like this, however those reactions still exist.  I'd rather avoid it if at all possible and would love to hear some opinions.  For certain things, such as the belt buckle, it would be easy enough to get a blank face, or get something with a WWI facing.

Lastly, is it acceptable to go with an HBT (linen/cotton) uniform, or is wool really the only option?  It's not likely to be a huge deal, but I'm sure it would be a lot more comfortable in the summer months.

That's all I've got for now!  I appreciate any assistance I can get.  Thanks.

[aldrich]

Hey minzen, welcome to the boards! First, I would look into what the groups in your area are portraying in regards to your impression. For example, here in the midwest USA, we represent a specific division for our Russian or German impressions. Letting us know what general area you are from can help us guide you in the right direction if that be the case. That being said, it sounds as though you are leaning towards the Luftwaffe field divisions. I can't blame you, as I have one of their impressions as well. One important thing to know about the Luftwaffe field divisions is that they initially operated independently of the army. While the airforce didn't have contracts with arms suppliers, leaving the divisions with outdated firearms and artillery, they used their uniform contracts to make sure their field divisions were well supplied. This means that many had camo smocks as you pictured as well as very distinct uniforms. Goering was very reluctant to give up his air force troops to the army, therefore they formed their own divisions. Unfortunately, this meant that you had men trained as ground crew for aircraft suddenly leading infantry assaults, and they didn't typically do very well. The Russians were especially fond of attacking LFD's as they knew they had little combat capability and their unique uniforms made them easy to single out. Due to this they were eventually absorbed into the army. Therefore you see their uniforms gradually being replaced by army issue items. Here is my uniform, keep in mind my field gear is army issue, not LFD:






If you are worried about displaying offensive images, and like camo, I would go with the smock as they didn't always have the insignia sewn on (2nd photo). It will also be cool in the summer months and save you some money if you don't wear the tunic underneath. Alternatively, if you do want a traditional uniform (1st photo), insignia is made without offensive images on them for reenactors in countries where those images are banned. They are harder to find, but they exist.  Once again, I would check with units in your area to see if they represent a particular unit. (It's always fun to all match) Check out sites such as Gavin Militaria or Hessen Antique to find LFD uniforms and gear.  I hope this helps.  

[minzen]

Hey Aldrich,

Great advice! I believe the closest unit to me is the 3rd Grenadiers, I'm not really sure what other units are in the Midwest, specifically I'm located in Minneapolis. And while I am open to any kind of impression, I good look incredibly German so it is the natural fit.

I had seen your impression posts on Midwest Ostfront which had me start considering going Luftwaffe! Those posts have been some of my main information thus far in putting an impression together, I greatly appreciate you having taken the time to put them together.

I've been checking out Hessen Antique, I've made a couple purchases from them for WWI stuff to use with my Steampunk Prussian outfit. Great resource! Reasonable prices and they always seem to have a sale.

[aldrich]

As far as airsoft goes, we are the only WWII unit in the midwest that I know of. For ostfront events I mostly run as a 3rd Panzergrenadier, but occasionally I have gone as part of a Luftwaffe squad with some friends. I would recommend getting a Heer impression first since that's what most of us do, but a LFD impression would be fine. If you would like to, and need help registering on the ostfront forums, let me know. It can be tricky at times.

[aldrich]

Since you are in Minneapolis, are you by any chance going to the opening airsoft event at Big Lake Tactical Wargames this weekend (April 5th)? I will be at that event and can answer any questions you may have there, and I can bring out some of my reenacting stuff for you to take a look at.

[minzen]

You're probably right about it being more practical to go straight up Heer, at least to start. I have a 15% off coupon for Hessen Antique yet, I'll probably put together an order tonight for the basics, I've been looking over my options for the last few days so I feel I have a pretty good plan for my basic equipment.

I would love some assistance in registering on the forums. I attempted to last night but it had said registration was closed.

This is the first I've heard of of an event this weekend! Is there somewhere I could get more informaton about it? I'm not sure I'll have my MP40 yet, but if it arrives I'd definitely consider going. Is this specifically a WWII event or just airsoft in general? It'd be great to get some exposure and get a feel for everything.

Thanks!

[aldrich]

It is just an open play airsoft event, no theme, just airsoft in general. Travis, the field owner, has a facebook page where he posts updates. His field is called Big Lake Tactical Wargames. As for registration, we had a problem with bots spamming our forum so we have registration closed for now until we can figure something out. I sent you a PM regarding registration.

[ssgjoe]

I don't think having a swatstika would be too much of a worry. You wouldn't be wearing this in public except to reenactment events, and they are accepted there. If you do Heer, you can get subdued breast eagles that swatstika a are hard to see on. I have worn my German uniform to non WWII public airsoft games and have not received any complaints. And if someone complains, then teach them a little history. But if you are really set on not having swatstikas, that's fine with me. I myself wear a Great War belt buckle, but I do plan on purchasing a WWII one.

[minzen]

I'm not concerned about reactions to imagery on the field, that's an appropriate place and situation for them. However I do have a profession and I'm concerned that a picture in uniform on facebook, or someone who just happens to see the uniform laying around my place could easily take it completely the wrong way. It's not a situation I want to have to deal with.

Additionally I do a lot of other costume stuff and would like to have all of this available for use with other costumes. But it sounds like not having them isn't a huge deal, I'll probably just not get any for the time being and I can look into alternatives down the road.

Getting close to having an order put together! I'll probably post what I'm thinking on here before ordering to get opinions. Sadly I was mistaken about the coupon and it expired a few days ago.

[CPL. Mills 2nd Rangers]

If you haven't done so already, Hessen antiques is having a sale on their Heer tunics for $49. If your heart is set on Luftwaffe, they have the Luftwaffe pants on sale for $45.

www.hessenantique.com/Sale_Items_s/108.htm

Dont worry about the swastika, you are doing living history. Your not some wacko skin head. It is important to keep history alive and not make it "politically correct". If we go about making history "PC" then we wont really know history, it will become watered down and fake.

[minzen]

Been looking at just those sales!

Aldrich, you seem like you'd have a good grasp on what would be historically accurate, when Luftwaffe troops were absorbed into the Wehrmacht they would be issued whatever Wehrmacht equipment that was to be had. Would this include issuing new uniforms?

The thought is since I'd want both uniforms eventually anyway and I'm limited in my spending ability currently I could get the Field grey M43 tunic and the blue M30(I think thats the one..) trousers and use them until I have the disposable income. Is this just a dumb idea? Candid advice is appreciated.

[aldrich]

When the Luftwaffe Field Divisions were absorbed into the Heer, they first used up the existing stocks of uniforms and gear they had left from the Luftwaffe stocks, they did not waste anything. Depending on where they were, this had different outcomes. While in Russia (where our group is theoretically based) their uniforms were well used and were soon replaced by Heer uniforms and equipment, in Normandy one could find LFD units more or less completely kitted out in their traditional uniforms since there was no combat to wear them out until D-day. In the end though, they were army divisions after 1943. The only reason they kept the name "Luftwaffe" was more or less a designation. By very late 1944-1945 towards the end of the war, group photos of Field divisions more or less look just like army divisions as far as uniforms go. Perhaps one guy will have his old Luftwaffe tunic, and those left with smocks will still have them, but that's about it.

Therefore, as far as mixing uniform parts goes, what you have suggested is perfect for a Russian front post 1943 Luftwaffe look. In fact, it's probably more correct to the timeframe that our group depicts (1943-44 Russian front) than what I have above. One thing to be careful of, from what I have seen, and I could be wrong, is that when they used army issue tunics, they typically still used the Luftwaffe insignia until the very late war. Either in the form of just a chest eagle, or the eagle and the collar tabs. Once again this was just a means of designating them from standard army units. I would say go for it.

[aldrich]

Page four of the "Stitch-knot-see photo thread" here on these forums has some very good photos of transitional LFD impressions, I would recommend taking a look!

Photos: ww2aa.proboards.com/thread/1134/axis-stitch-knot-picture-thread?page=4

[ssgjoe]

Weren't LWFDs mainly used in rear echelon or defensive roles? I heard that somewhere. And they were also political troops.

[minzen]

I've done a little more shopping around and review reading and think I may go with Gavin Militaria. They seem to have better review than Sterm-miltec items. It'll cost a little bit more, but I'll get what I want originally thinking of going with. I've linked the items below, does anyone have any advice about this stuff?

www2.gavinmilitaria.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=29:8c46dcb4cb0f2d4519a76b3e67b28f12
www2.gavinmilitaria.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=22:6ee41f175162f55e6904f290c0d3fe79
www2.gavinmilitaria.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=139

[ssgjoe]

Gavin is pretty good. But that chinstrap isn't correct. It's acceptable in my terms, but some events may not allow it. But it can be easily replaced or even stained.

[minzen]

Hell, I got black leather dye in my closet. Easy enough fix

[aldrich]

I would have to agree with Gavin as a choice. But I would personally go with a later war uniform. While a m36 with stone grey trousers would be good for an invasion of France/Poland, even very early Russia, it became rare as the war went on. It simply was too complicated to mass produce in wartime. I would look more into combinations of m40-m43 uniform tunics/pants. (m40 referring the year it started to become prevalent in photos aka: 1940) The m40, m42, and m43 uniforms were the most common during the war. The M36 being early war, and the m44 being a very limited late war uniform that was rarely used. I cannot speak for Gavin's helmets.

[ssgjoe]

I would reccomend (by looks) M40 or M43 feldblusen. I gotta agree with Aldrich. While there were M36s still being issued from old stocks all through the war, and some factories got contracts to keep manufacturing M36s even later in the war, I would GI with a later war uniform.

[minzen]

My thinking is that getting a uniform that was issued earlier would be appropriate for all periods. While a M36 and stone-grey trousers would be rare in late war it certainly wouldn't be impossible. It would allow me to be appropriately dressed for the majority of events.

Also, I apologize if I seem all over the place. I'm a bit excited and really enjoying looking at all this stuff! I really appreciate all the feedback I'm getting and I'm definitely taking it all into consideration.

[aldrich]

No apologies necessary! While this is true with the early war uniform, in my experience you will rarely, if ever, find an event that is earlier than 1943-44. I started with an early war uniform too but moved on to a later war one (m42) for this reason. I found that my m36 uniform was more or less just "technically correct" rather than really fitting into the time period of our events. If you want a early war uniform that is appropriate for all periods, I would go with the m40. While you don't really see m36 tunics during the mid to late war period, m40 tunics can be seen throughout the war, even during the early war alongside the m36. They still have the cut of the m36 and were the first tunics to truly be mass produced during wartime.

[Ersatzjack]

Okay, my suggestion. Airsoft is mostly conducted in hot weather. Buy the HBTs. You can always layer in cold weather. But unless you want to have two uniforms I'd buy the warm weather stuff first. Running with wool in the summer is no fun. I would also stick to basic Field Grey. Gavin I see makes the HBT uniform and cap. That would be an ideal start. Stick with an M40 and you have a uniform good for most of the periods but period accuracy is not a big deal for airsoft games (or hasn't been). Low boots provide more support but jackboots are easier to put on and off. If you are modeling 3rd Pz Gr, then feel free to buy the web harness (Y-straps) in lieu of leather as that is more comfortable and we were in Italy. You can even go with Italian Camo pants instead of HBT pants or mix and match the tunic pants (both are cotton and cooler if you want some camo. If at a later date you want the early war set-up, which once you attend a few events I doubt you will as you will stick out as different then go ahead. The low prices don't show how the linzen are going to be acquired. Uniforms without the linzen (collar tabs) look bad and incomplete. You'll need to address that by sewing on yourself (not recommended - hard to do) or buying the tunics from someone who has the eagle and linzen applied already.

[brownien]

As far as linzen, I know Hessen has a sewing service. If you buy the tunic and tabs from them, you can pay them ($12?) to see the tabs, and any other insignia on for you

[minzen]

Great points! I'll take another look around a few sites tonight and do some more comparing with this info in mind.

As for the HBT, I was thinking of going with them initially, but now I think I'm sold on the look of the wool. I'm not terribly concerned about how hot it may get, I'm used to fighting in an arming coat and 20 lbs of chainmail in 90+ degree weather. Not exactly the most pleasant, but I have the endurance for it. Looking sharp in uniform is definitely worth it!

Currently I'm planning on wearing my Czech surplus boots with...gaiters. I know they're not called that but I'm forgetting the term at the moment. Eventually I'd want to get jackboots as I love the look of them and can use them for other costumes.

I'm not too concerned about sewing, I've sewing several costumes over the last few years, including WWI a German uniform (tunic and pants). I'm confident I'll be able to attach linzen myself and may even be doing my own tailoring, though I also have a seamstress I use when I want things to be perfect.

[ersatzjack2]

I agree with my brother. Start with the hbt's for the warmer weather and later, you can pick up the wools which you'll want for our Fall and Winter events. Forget about a helmet right now. You can play in a soft cap and when you get more funds you can add a helmet. When you get your helmet, consider an original shell from Ken's helmets. Many of our guys have gone that route and none have regretted it.