Starting to do k98 conversion

[princeofpinoys]

I'm using a Well MB03 and a Dboys plastic stock and I have a few questions and wondering if youd be able to help me.

1) what tools did you use? I see that theres alot of sanding down to make things fit and dremeling for the mag, but I also see you need to cut both barrels. Can I dremel those as well or do I need something stronger?

2) how much of the barrels do I have to cut?

[volkssturm]

Check out the "Guide to making a Kar98" in the Technical DIY thread. I'm slowly working on one. Mostly I've been using a Dremel tool, a hacksaw and a power drill.

On the barrels: for the Dboys I marked how far the barrel extended past the end of the stock and cut the barrel a little ahead of where the hop up mechanism on the spring was going to be. I'm using a JG Snow Wolf instead of a VSR. On the Snow Wolf I initially cut the outer barrel just forward of the hop up mechanism. The outer barrel on the Snow Wolf is a larger diameter than the VSR10. It wouldn't fit under the upper handguard, so I trimmed it back to be flush with the and of the handguard.

[princeofpinoys]

Okay cool, thanks! i think i got all of those tools! Ill keep ya updated

[2nd Bat]

Indeed the outer barrel for all the modern bolt actions are too thick to fit under the upper hand guards of any of the WW2 main battle rifles so these outer barrels need to be cut off and removed. A proper sized diameter and proper lengthen replacement barrel needs to be made and fitted. i just used a section of brass tubing but a length of the right sized pipe would also work and would provide some nice additional weight. I just couldn't source anything that looked right.

Fitting this new "outer barrel" was a simple case of wrapping cloth tape around the brass inner barrel from my base airsoft gun in three places until the thickness was just right and sliding my fabricated outer barrel over these snug spacers that I had created. It sounds hokey and sophomoric but it has worked amazingly well for me. A set screw howere is always a good idea once everything is in place.

By following the numerous tutorials in this forum you should see enough step by step instructions to figure out how to get your project completed. Good Luck with it.

[Jerry-ADK]

Yes, good luck!  Its a lot of fun and very satisfying to convert and make your own Kar98 conversion.  I am just finishing up my first rifle,  so I have done a lot of trouble shooting, no pun intended, to get mine working good.  If you have any more questions I can help and send pics if you need them.  

[2nd Bat]

We'd all like to see updates on your Kar 98 project along with your tips and observations.

[insterburger]

I'm about two steps shy of finishing my first conversion... just need to poly the stock, do a little mod to help keep the outer barrel from rotating, final assembly, and that's it. I will post pics and observations on mine as well. I know Jer and I took different directions on several things, and in some cases we both broke new ground from anything I had seen before. I think that's the main lesson-- there are many wrong ways to do things, but there is also no set "right" way. I set my action forward from the original tang screw hole by about 1.5 cm, which presented some challenges but also made certain things work better. It will be harder to do that with the wood stocks (my next build), but the benefits are worth it to me, without question.

[2nd Bat]

I am always fascinated with the assorted approaches people take and love the creative and clever problem solving people come up with. My approach is always to keep things as simple as possible and do as little modification to the base mechanicals as you can get away with. I have not attempted one with the dboys donor gun and have always used real steel components and stocks. It love the idea of having everything you need on hand as is the case with a boneyard dboys.

What do the boneyard, non functional dboys kar 98s typically go for? I have to think the plastic (simulated wood) dboys stock is fairly easy to work with?

What is the cheapest source anyone has found for a decent looking Kar 98 sling? Does one come with the dboys rifle?

[insterburger]

The DBoys was nice because, as you said, everything is there. You are absolutely correct about keeping things as simple and straightforward as possible, but what I found is that the design principles I used in architecture often apply here, too. Sometimes it's a matter of tradeoffs, and the question to be asked is: What does this solution do for me as opposed to the other, and which has the fewest downsides?

For instance, it would have been easier for me to maintain the existing tang location. But by moving up the action, I accomplished a few things: For one, the action sits more realistically, with the bolt hitting at the cutout and not well behind it. Secondly, it provided a natural backwall to my magwell (with minimal filing), so it actually saved me problems there. I was still able to keep the full trigger guard by burying the real tang screw under the trigger guard and making the TG screws shorter with the sole purpose of holding on the TG. A bit more complicated, but well worth it.

To answer your questions:
Airsoft Megastore will sometimes have boneyard 98k's. It's hit or miss. Plastic stock is usually $55 or so, wood stock right around $95 (both plus shipping). I don't have a benchmark to go against with a wood stock conversion (yet!), but I found the plastic stock VERY easy to work with. It was easy to cut away the parts that had to go, and easy to build up the stock where needed. Cutting the magwell and installing the magazine catch-- which I know gives some people fits-- was almost laughably easy. The plastic stock design very much favored the specific design I used (action forward, shorter than standard magazine)-- it was almost like it was meant for it. The plastic stocks are light, but by adding a length of rebar at the end of the stock, and a few pieces sealed into the buttstock, it's actually heavier than the real wood DBoys stock (but still lighter than RS). As for the finish, I think that turned out OK, I'll post pics when I'm done and you can judge for yourself.

I don't think DBoys come with slings. The best source I have for 98k slings is Mountain State Supply. They have decent enough prices/quality for their standard slings, but will sometimes have "B Grade" slings that are just fine, especially for airsoft, at significant savings. It's worth giving them a look. Otherwise you can always troll Ebay looking for deals, but they seem to be getting fewer and further between.

[Jerry-ADK]

May 31, 2014 23:16:29 GMT -5 2nd Bat said:

I am always fascinated with the assorted approaches people take and love the creative and clever problem solving people come up with. My approach is always to keep things as simple as possible and do as little modification to the base mechanicals as you can get away with. I have not attempted one with the dboys donor gun and have always used real steel components and stocks. It love the idea of having everything you need on hand as is the case with a boneyard dboys.

What do the boneyard, non functional dboys kar 98s typically go for? I have to think the plastic (simulated wood) dboys stock is fairly easy to work with?

What is the cheapest source anyone has found for a decent looking Kar 98 sling? Does one come with the dboys rifle?

I will post some pics and do a little presentation on my project when I get a chance.  One of the things I did was to use tiny shotgun magazines that are at least 1 in smaller than the VSR10 mags.  That allowed me to not have to cut away at the trigger guard, but they set up inside the stock a bit so I will have to glue a piece of wood to the bottom of them to make them flush eith the stock.  It will be a nice touch because I will stain the piece of wood the same color as the stock so the mag blends in better.  But I also tried to keep the base gun a Bar10 in my case, unadulterated as much as possible because I didn't want to compromise the function of it.  Let's just say, the gun looks and shoots awesome, I will 
Post some pics soon.  Hopefully we can post pics now on the forum and the problem has been solved with us using up our allotted memory for this site.

The 2 base Dboys I was working off of we're acquired from other forum members so I'm not sure what one cost from the bone yard.  The plastic stock is sort of easy to work with, sharp chisels and a dremel do work well for cutting.  I started out working on the pastic stock until Raimond sold me a wood stock and I finished with that.  Adding wieght will go along way for making the gun feel more real.  I still needed to do this with the wood dboys stock because its very light soft wood.  I just drilled 1/2 holes where i could and filled them with #6 lead shot and sealed it up with epoxy.  

The plastic stock I am saving for my winter project, a G41 AEG.  I think with a MP40 gearbox I have and some bondo,plumbing parts married with the plastic Dboys And m14 barrel, hop and short mag, I might be able to pull it off for my next build.  I bought a very good quality sling on eBay for around $20 with shipping.

[insterburger]

I wish I had taken pictures during the process, it would have made some of the steps I took easier to describe.

Like Jerry, I used an alternate magazine, but by moving the action forward I was able to accomodate a magazine that is shorter than the Bar10 mags, but longer than the shotgun ones Jer used (Steyr Double Eagle to be precise) and still clear the trigger guard. The mags sit slightly ddeeper than the standard JG mags, but as it happens the magazine depth is exactly right for where I have the action on the 98k stock. All I needed to do was to put some small shims where the hopup fairing interfaces the magazine catch and everything fit together perfectly. TBTG.

BTW, Mountain State has B-Grade "thin" 98k slings in stock at $12.95 + shipping. I have a couple, they are slightly-- and I mean SLIGHTLY thinner than I'm used to seeing in repros, but plenty thick enough to have the strength for field use. The thinner profile might actually be a benefit for airsoft, seeing as the stock pass-throughs on the DBoys are probably not as generous as the originals.

[2nd Bat]

Most helpful. With the shotgun mags you are using what sort of modifications to the feed lip (if any) do you have to do? If your entire modification is simply adding a little depth that is simple. How many rounds do these magazines feed and precisely what shotgun magazines are you each using? Pictures of course will be most helpful. One final question. Do your shotgun mags fit in the Kar 98pouches? If so that would be a huge plus as the BAR 10 mags do not.

The source tip for the sling is super. I have a Cz 24 rifle conversion and would like to add a decent and appropriate sling to it and i'm also anxious to do my own Kar 98 conversion when i get home.

[Jerry-ADK]

Here are the mags I used.  Mags. I didn't have to modify them at all, they fit just like the JG ones, I just have to add depth to them to have them come out flush with the stalk.  They hold 12 rounds.  They also fit in k98 mag pouches, which is way cool!

[insterburger]

Jun 1, 2014 19:39:01 GMT -5 2nd Bat said:

Most helpful. With the shotgun mags you are using what sort of modifications to the feed lip (if any) do you have to do? If your entire modification is simply adding a little depth that is simple. How many rounds do these magazines feed and precisely what shotgun magazines are you each using? Pictures of course will be most helpful. One final question. Do your shotgun mags fit in the Kar 98pouches? If so that would be a huge plus as the BAR 10 mags do not.

The source tip for the sling is super. I have a Cz 24 rifle conversion and would like to add a decent and appropriate sling to it and i'm also anxious to do my own Kar 98 conversion when i get home.

I am using the Swiss Arms M6 ASG Steyr UTG Master Sniper Double Eagle M50 Series mags, which are 24 rounds:

www.evike.com/products/39668/

These need no modification. The feed is identical to the JG. They ALMOST fit in 98k mag pouches. I have some repro pouches I bought from Mountain State as B-stock (though I can't for the life of me figure out what is defective about them), and I think that if I either wet and stretch the straps a bit, or add a second stud hole a little bit further down the strap, I should be able to close the pouches on these without problems. For me that's not a problem on repro pouches that were purchased expressedly for airsoft.

Jer is using the Double Eagle / Matrix M58 Shotgun mags:

www.evike.com/products/31250/

The drawback is that they are only 14 rounds, the good news is that they apparently DO fit the 98k mag pouches easily and without modding the pouches like I will have to do. I believe these also feed just fine without mods, but Jer could probably speak more authoritatively to that.

So it's kind of a tradeoff. One type of mag fits the pouches better, the other gives you a much higher capacity. Both apparently feed nicely on a Bar 10. The shotgun mags will apparently clear the trigger guard even with the action set in the original tang screw hole, the Steyr Double Eagle mags will ONLY clear the trigger guard if the action is set foward a bit. Hope that helps!

[insterburger]

Beat me to the punch there, and I stand corrected. I understood the shotgun mags officially have 14 round capacity.

[2nd Bat]

Boy quick responses from both of you! The Shorter length will definitely be a plus on several levels and the 12 to 14 rounds is also a plus given how cheap they are. Adding some depth and a finish to match your stock base is no big deal. How tough is rigging a solid and reliable mag release?

[Jerry-ADK]

Jun 1, 2014 20:11:28 GMT -5 2nd Bat said:

I should have looked more closely as Jerry had a link and stated quite clearly that the need no modification at the feed lip. The Shorter length will definitely be a plus on several levels and the 12 to 14 rounds is also a plus given how cheap they are. Adding some depth and a finish to match your stock base is no big deal. How tough is rigging a solid and reliable mag release?

I just cut out a section of the JG stock that houses the catch and epoxied the whole thing inside a carved out section of the Dboys stock where it just stick out enough to catch the new mag.  Kind of hard to picture, so I will take one of it and post for you. The only drawback or problem I have so far is that in order to make sure the gun feeds I have to hold my hand over the mag in the fore stock so it sits tightly up in the hop and makes good contact.   Minor kink, but manageable, because that's where your left hand is anyway while cocking.  I could fiddle around with it and try to get it sit more snug but it works pretty reliably and I can tell by feel when cocking if it's feeding or not.

It is supposed to hold 14 rounds, but seems to only hold 12, wich is great because it makes your round capacity more authentic.

 I think I can get 2 of he mags in a pouch if they are flipped opposite to each other.  I will try that out tomorrow and see if it works.

[2nd Bat]

The pressure on the mag from the base is an acceptable quirk in my opinion provided once in it doesn't tend to fall out when running and is fairly seamless to remove and reload. As you said when firing your non firing hand typically is down there anyway. My shotgun mags for my Garands do not load the full prescribed capacity either. With a "cock it each time" bolt action rifle the 12 round capacity sounds just fine. (especially if reloads are quick). Lower load capacity and frequent reloads improves authenticity and I really like that aspect and differentiation from typical airsoft.

[Jerry-ADK]

I am able to carry 2 in one mag pouch.  I will be able to carry 12 mags in my leather pouches making them functional and not just fashion   I can also get them in my Fallschirmjager bandoleers.  I think that because of this I won't shim out the mag with wood, because if I do they will no longer fit in my pouches.  They don't bug me too much as they appear in the gun. They are recessed a bit in the stock, and kinda match the dark walnut I stained the stock.

[insterburger]

Jun 2, 2014 20:47:17 GMT -5 Jerry-ADK said:

I am able to carry 2 in one mag pouch.  I will be able to carry 12 mags in my leather pouches making them functional and not just fashion   I can also get them in my Fallschirmjager bandoleers.  I think that because of this I won't shim out the mag with wood, because if I do they will no longer fit in my pouches.  They don't bug me too much as they appear in the gun. They are recessed a bit in the stock, and kinda match the dark walnut I stained the stock.

You might want to do a bit of field testing to make sure that it's practical carrying two to a pouch-- as you well know, things can get hairy under fire and you don't want to be juggling or losing mags in a combat situation. I guess it's not a problem wither way.

Looking forward to seeing the completed build!

[2nd Bat]

I agree with Insterberger. I would rather have one mag per pouch that was super easy to get in and out then carry two if its a chore to remove while under fire. With a bolt action rifle I have found if I have 48 rounds prepared and loaded in mags that's enough to suit and support my typical survival limits anyway. (Four loaded mags at 12 rounds each should be adequate.). I can then reload whatever I emptied and re-enter the action with another ready 48 rounds. Unless I am very very stealthy and employ great technique combined with a bit of luck, a bolt action equipped soldier at airsoft ranges isn't typically going to go through four reloads before getting whacked anyway. 12 straight shots is more then double what a German had in his KAR98 between reloads so a nice touch of realism vs a rediculously large capacity.

[princeofpinoys]

I'm looking to cut the Well MB03 outer barrel, close to the hop up then fitting the Dboys outer barrel to fit it from there, from what it looks like atm it will fit with small adjustments to the stock.

[insterburger]

I managed to get the Steyr UTG mags into the repro pouches! Just had to wet the straps and pull them a bit. Some were more generous to start with and went easy, others needed some serious stretching. Once the leather dried I pulled on them a bit more while on the stud so they would open and close normally. They stand about 1/4" taller with the mags pushing the tops up, not exactly a sore thumb sticking out in my impression.

The capacity is nominally 24 but actually more like 16-20, so if I use all six pouches, that's about 100-120 rounds-- as 2nd Bat says, MORE than adequate for all ordinary circumstances.

As Jer said, it will be great being able to actually use the 98k pouches in combat. Nothing against the full-size JG mags or rifles built on them, but working my way through my pouches for the next mag will certainly beat fumbling through pockets.